Support. It's not fair to give all the useful benefits to the good and neutral lions. Otherwise what was the point of having the karma expansion at all?

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I don't agree that the "0 energy loss when killing lion (useless) - For what? More evil karma? You already have Evil personality... " is useless, since let's say you're someone who aims for as low/evil as karma as possible (like myself XD), not loosing energy for killing a lion is great, especially if you also are a mutation breeder(them VLF girls take a lot of energy to breed) or just do a lot of breeding in general too. Yeah sure, if you only kill maybe a handful of lions a day, loosing the 5%-20% energy is nothing, but if you're killing in mass amounts like some of us, it means a lot! Karma is just a "bragging rights" thing, but in the end, aren't things like stats and looks(rare markings, mutations, and what not. Basically "bragging rights" over how "pretty" your lion looks) that too? Sure stats and looks pass on, and yeah, stats help in battles and things like that, but I have a fairly low stat male and he does perfectly fine anyway. In my mind changing his personality to "Heartless" was definitely worth the GB.

I do agree though that Evil/Good personalities need to give the mood boost to Snarky/Kind pride members and vise versa(respectively of course), and that some of the perks for the male personalities are basically useless. However, I'd like to point out that the news post did say they may add more affects, "Note: We might add more effects in next updates." Plus we were flat out told that what has been released on personalities thus far is only the beginning and that more is coming. I'm personally happy waiting a bit to see what happens before jumping the gun on the matter, but I will support this :)

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@Peace:
I knew it this argument would come up.
But let me tell you one thing:
Gameplaywise it is completely useless. What use do you have for all that karma anyway? You wont get rewards or any kind of advantage from having super low karma other than getting the Evil personality, which you already have and is useless on its own, doesnt give you anything new or worth the time.

Killing lions because they are fail breedings is something completely different but not everyone will use the feature anyway. Uncommon effects should be stuff that people will use, no matter their gameplay style. Everyone will send their girls to hunt, everyone will do NPC fighting, everyone will explore, because without these basic functions your pride can only survive if you pay money. Shouldnt the uncommons -roughly- give the same advantages? Instead of one being completely worthless while the other having all that one needs but cannot have it because of karma messing it up in a generation.

Shouldnt the uncommon effects be something that gives you an advantage in gameplay?

I rather say what I find unfair than wait for something that might not happen. Sure, we might get more effects but for now I am not pleased and if I dont tell them what is wrong, they might not realise, hence why it is important to point it out in the first place.

It must be worth our time to have evil lions. Because right now, I am dreading to choose any personality because my lion will end up with the completely worthless Evil personality in a generation or two.

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It is possible to just reset your karma back to 0, so in my mind, those finding it not worth it to have lions with Evil personalities in their pride could always do that. But like I said, I don't disagree that the perks need more balance. I just said I don't think not loosing energy over killing is useless for some of us. I don't kill fail cubs; I bred said cubs for the sole purpose of killing. I claim lionesses to kill. For me, and likely others, I don't care about the physical "rewards" of playing. I play for the RP aspect. However, I do fully recognize that there are people who do need it to be more rewarding, so no, I don't disagree that for the vast majority of players, the Evil personalities are useless. I support because I think the game(really any game) needs to have balance between the different kinds of players(Good/Evil, those who are geared towards the market/those who aren't, those who like stats/those who don't care, and so forth). Not everyone feels rewarded in the same way.

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Support.

And I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but Xy, why would you just assume that everyone with a large pride uses feed all play all? I've never bought GB with my RL money, as much as I like this game, because I cannot afford it . I recently spent a lot of time in the hospital, and on top of that a few family members died recently, and now my family is swamped in medical bills, funeral expenses, and paying lawyers to help with the estates of deceased family members because the executer of the estates lives out of state and laws are different here. So at the moment we can barely afford Internet. My pride is not the largest. Only about 30 lions not including cubs, but still among the game even more time consuming and just assuming we all have the time and money to purchase feed all play all? That's just... :/ I'm sorry I'm just so disappointed.

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@Peace: Again, 'getting more bad karma' does NOT count. Because in the end, it doesnt net anything useful gameplay-wise. Bad karma's current only use is to get evil personality, which apparently only gives you the ability to give you more bad karma. And then you are in a circle.

While I understand some of your points, sadly this RP aspect will not help those who actually play the game for more. So for those, this effect is completely and utterly worthless.

Resetting karma also doesnt help because in the end I will start building up bad karma again. I dont want to waste money on counter my choice of gameplay.

The main purpose of this suggestion is to give balance to the two uncommon personalities and give them -roughly- the same effects.

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First I just want to say please keep in mind that Xylax said the Personality part of the game is far from complete. They’re going to be adding more personalities, more features, and tweaking how it works. So I’m sure a lot of things will be shifted, changed around, and smoothed out. A lot of things need to be in actual game before they can fully figure out the best course of action. I’m not trying to preach, just reminding that a lot of things are still in Beta.

1. I do agree with this. I was kind of surprised that Kind didn’t boost Good and Evil didn’t boost Snarky. Maybe a small tweak to that? Say...Evil gives 3% to Snarky and 5% to Evil? So there’s a bonus for managing to breed one ‘type’ in a pride but not a huge disadvantage if all your lions are in one category or the other?


2. Now this I have to at least partially disagree on. The whole “killing lions bonus is useless” is not true. It might be true for you personally, but there are a lot of people who want to get on the leaderboards. I understand you’re not thrilled with it, but that doesn’t make the feature useless. You have options and a lot of people are loving the idea of being able to “mass kill” to get on the leaderboards and have more opportunity to have cubs with the rarer personalities.

I will agree that the “free carcass once a day” isn’t particularly useful, but it’s not a terrible thing either. If someone is running a smaller group and they have a large pride, I could see it being useful? Not particularly useful to me personally but I wouldn’t say it’s completely. Still, I wouldn’t be against seeing it tweaked a bit more. Perhaps instead an option to “steal” from another animal/pride’s kill for an extra large carcass? Not another player, an NPC, but still give an option? Maybe twice a day?

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1. I wouldn’t call them useless. The Snarky one is limited by energy and the Good one by how many lionesses you want to bother to claim. Both are limited, but so small that people can’t abuse them. If it was +50 xp for the Good, it would be extremely overpowered and allow unfair leveling. I personally think it’s fine myself. Although a bump up to maybe +10 xp wouldn’t be terrible?

2. I’m neutral on this. I can see why “Mysterious” has a night-time bonus, but what you’re saying about the Good having an Evil counterpart also makes sense. I would have no problem with this being changed, though I don’t think it’s exactly terrible the way it is.

3. I don’t think Evil personalities are being “punished” in the way you’re implying. The abilities aren’t “useless”, they’re just useless to you personally. I can understand this being frustrated if you want your lion to have an Evil personality, but it’s an unfair generalization to say the bonuses are useless. A lot of people are enjoying the “free killing” feature for example. I fully understand you don’t like it or want to use it, but that’s a personal choice for your personal game style. It’s not everyone’s choice and many people like the karma without having to use energy to explore as a lot of them use their energy for breeding, for example.

I do agree that Evil should have a more useful ability than the “Punish” option. What about something like “Additional experience when killing lions in Explore”? Nothing huge, but maybe +50 xp for lion/lioness NPC kills?

4. I don’t really agree with this. While I have no problem with shifting Evil toward “killing things” as they are “evil”, it’s not really fair to say it’s “useless”. Once again, a lot of people are really enjoying the “no loss of energy for killing” feature and are using it like crazy for the rewards. A lot of people like the karma. Once again, I understand you personally do not, but that isn’t how everyone plays. It’s not really fair to claim something is useless just because you have no personal use for it. While I do agree they do need some tweaking to be balanced, I don’t think you’re being fair to decide for everyone that something is “useless”. It’s clearly not useless to quite a few players who enjoy the challenge of building up their karma.

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Now, I do agree there needs to be a bit more balancing and more options, but as I said in the beginning, Xylax did say that personality is going to get a lot of additions and changes. This isn’t it’s final form so to speak so I’m sure there are going to be a lot of options for both Evil and Good. So the Evil personalities now don’t suit you and that’s fine, but there will probably be something that does in the near future.

Once again, I don’t think choosing “Evil” is resulting in “punishing”. I don’t really see an issue in using a few extra toys to keep a pride happy? That’s the point of toys? Yes, they have other uses, but if you explore even a few times a day, you get feathers, skulls, and similar things. Having to use one or two uses to boost a few lions isn’t really cutting that deeply into anyone’s profits? If you’re selling to the Monkey Shop it’s less than 25 SB a day unless you have a really enormous pride.

I really do agree that it’s not really fair to assume that if someone has a large pride they use the Play All-Feed All button. A lot of people prefer to use their GB on other things so I totally agree that it’s not fair to just assume if someone has more than X amount of lions they must be using that items. I’ve never used it and I don’t ever really intend to.

Also, while I get you don’t find the “RP Aspects” useful, but I don’t think it’s fair to demand they be removed simply because you prefer not to use them. I’m not against letting the Admins know if something should be tweaked or suggesting ideas, but declaring something useless or worthless isn’t really fair. I acknowledge it is worthless to you personally, but that doesn’t mean others don’t enjoy it. It’s not hurting you to allow it to remain in game.

What about suggesting some features you would like to see in the Evil category? Xylax has said more Personalities will be added. What personalities and features would you like to see and that would be fair?

Not to be rude, but it's far more constructive to suggest a fix than to complain about something you don't like. I have no problem saying "this is what I don't like and why" but if you offer no way to fix the problem, it's not really all that helpful. Just saying "well balance this!" doesn't really offer much in the way of fixing an issue.

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Leaderboards is something completely different and isnt really part of gameplay itself.
Please, can you stop bringing this up? leaderboards is extra. Nothing more. It has little to do with gameplay and being on the Leaderboards only gives you some kind of bragging rights but gives you absolutely no advantage whatsoever.

Thus, it is completely useless gameplay-wise.

The free carcass thing still is nothing particularly useful. Just think about it. Why push Evil (EVIL) to be awesome in getting more carcasses if being Evil is about being bad and seeking fights. I would expect this feature swapped for the NPC battle boosts with Good. It would make more sense there because being good means you fight less and survive better with less kill or less fights.

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1. You just said it. Snarky is extremely limited by energy. But if you are stubborn, you can get a tooooon of exp with the effect of the Good personality. No matter how I am stubborn and want to get more exp with the Snarky I am heavily limited by energy. With snarky, I could possibly get about 250exp/day if I am lucky enough to have 10 NPC fights from 100 energy all the time and if I play for 5 hours a day(let us behonest, it would be impossible already). At the Good personality, however, I can get basically unlimitedx2exp because it solely depends on how many I want to chase by choice.

2. It IS terrible because currently Evil has worthless effects compared to Good.

3. Perhaps this would be a good point to simply balance the Good and Evil personality effects to be kind of the same and support ALL gamestyles instead of picking one randomly and shoving it into the face of everyone and saying 'dealy with it, folks, this is what you get, now change your gameplay style to match it asap or cry to your mama'.

To me, this would be the balanced effects for Good and Evil:

Good (if it stays like this):
boosted battle damage during day
1x quest switch daily
+2exp when chasing

Evil (balanced):
boosted battle damage during night
1x quest switch daily OR daily button to gain 30% energy if energy below 70%
+1 impression upon claim

Now, this makes Evil desired as well and worth the time, yet doesnt make it more worth than Good. Both boost battle,both have a once a day advantage (not carcasses, because 99% of hunts are successful), and also have some kind of boost that is almost unlimited, depending on your endurance and will.

Imo, only effects that will be used by most people should be in the uncommon personalities and not something that onlypeople will use who want on the leaderboard. because let us be honest, Leaderboards are only for bragging rights, nothing more. It wont give you a reward or an advantage.

Again, currently karma only has the use to give you Evil personality, which then rewards you with even more bad karma. Is this useful? No, it isnt, it is a circle. I am not saying it is useless because I have no use for it but because it seriously and truly has absolutely no use and wont give you any advantage at all. leaderboards (again) should and is no argument. It is no use for gameplay. And the real use of these effects are to be useful for gameplay. It should be at least.

I seriously dont care what will be added because I dont know what will be added. How will the staff know that something is wrong already if you dont point it out, huh?

Anyway, thanks for the opinion.

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Leaderboards isn’t completely different. It’s an aspect of the game, the same as any other part. You never need to hunt, for example. You can just buy food from the Monkey Shop and breed if you want. You never need to explore. You never “need” to do anything. There are a lot of aspects of the game and a lot of ways to play. Nothing in the game really gives you an “advantage” in the sense you’re talking about. Stats are just for fun as an NCL hunts just as well as a lioness with 5,000 stats. I don’t really think it’s fair in a discussion to demand people not bring up something just because you personally don’t agree with it?

Honestly, personality is extra. If you do not want to bother, just make everything neutral. Then your lionesses will only get the 5% bonus like they always did. Nothing will have changed. You will not longer have to deal with it. If the RP Aspect isn’t something you care about then why do you care if your lion’s personality says neutral, good, evil, or anything else? It doesn’t really matter, does it? It’s just extra and doesn’t really effect gameplay unless you let it.

1. That is true. Snarky is limited by energy, but good is limited by time and space. To get 250 exp a day with the good bonus, you would need to claim/buy/breed/whatever 125 lions. That’s a pretty huge amount. Even if you’re buying them dirt cheap for 5 SB each (Karma fodder is usually 10-20 SB at the moment), that’s still 625 SB a day. That’s a decent amount of SB to be spending and trying to recover for most people.

2. Again, they are worthless in your opinion. I respect and acknowledge that because you do not want to gain more karma, however that doesn’t mean they are worthless to everyone. I’ve seen quite a few players who are delighted with it and working to get on the Evil boards. Yes, I know. You think it is extra, but to them, it is a goal and just as important to gameplay as anything else. Personally I’m not worried about it either, but they are and I respect that they enjoy that aspect and want to use it.

3. Whoa. Who the hell said anything about “change or go cry”? I said instead of just saying “fix it!” that you should offer suggestions. I wasn’t being sarcastic. If you have some personality changes why not offer that as a fix other than just complaining about you considering it to be unbalanced? I never said there was anything wrong with making your opinion known. I simply said being constructive was better than strictly complaining. If you offer the Admins no solutions than you can’t really complain when they don’t change something to your liking.

And honestly, that’s a very selfish outlook for you to have. The leaderboards are just as much an argument and a goal as leveling, hunting, or anything else. It’s just a feature in a sim game that people choose. I don’t really see the problem with having a single personality trait that’s angled toward those that enjoy the karma gain? Honestly, nothing in the game gives any kind of advantage in the strictest sense.

A lioness with a golden coat and 50 stats can hunt just as effectively as a lioness with 5,000 stats and 10 special/rare/breed-only markings.

A rolled king can level just as much and as fast as a higher stated king through Explore.

I don’t think you can proclaim a feature as “worthless” to gameplay simply because it’s not the style you prefer. Again, I personally don’t care a fig about getting on the leaderboards for karma but others do. Their gameplay is just as important as anyone else’s. Their reward is those “bragging rights”. Advantages is neither here nor there since nothing really gives advantages in the direct sense of your pride being fed and surviving. Everything else is just preference: preference for colors, stats, levels, or whatever else.

I honestly don’t understand why it bothers you so much if you’re strictly worried about your particular gameplay style? If the RP aspect doesn’t bother you or worry you, why not just pick a personality that you feel gives you the greatest advantage? You can still be “evil” even if your personality is “good”? Your personal karma doesn’t effect your king’s personality. It does effect the cubs born, but you can use a good personality for the bonuses and still continue having an evil king? Again, I’m not trying to be rude, but I’m confused why it’s bothering you so much when there are solutions immediately available.

I don’t have a problem with balancing things, but the solutions you’ve suggested won’t work because those bonuses are already going to Snarky personalities, except for the one that is already Evil? Why not pick a Snarky personality instead of Evil then? It’s still on the “evil” side of karma if that worries you, but has the bonuses you want?

I would think new suggestions for Evil personalities might be a better option as Xylax said they are planning to add addition ones, or coming up with new bonuses to the Unscruplous personality perhaps? I think Heartless should be left alone because a lot of people are enjoying it, even if you don’t.

What about Unscruplous allows additional xp when killing a lion in Explore?

What about suggestions for other Evil personalities?

Manipulative - change quests once a day (a copy of Snarky, but for Evil since you like that one?)
Vengeful - increased damage if health is below 50% in a fight
Cunning - additional damage against large opponents

These are just some random ideas I had on the spot.

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Please, drop leaderboards. Other than bragging rights, it doesnt give any reward or boost in gameplay. Gameplay-wise it is useless. I am concentrating on gameplay effects and not about personal achievements. So, I will not respond to that.

Making the personality neutral? Something tells me that your cubs' personality will shift according to your karma. So pretty much, it isnt any use.

1. I have more time and space than my lion has energy.

2, Not going to reply to this. Once again, at Karma and leaderboards. No gameplay effect: gameplay-wise useless, giving no boost or reward. Personal achievements are something different and are just what they are. Personal.

3. I am offering suggestions.

4. There is no such thing as having the personality I prefer. Because eventually, all my cubs will end up with the personality according to my lions' karma. if Karma did not change the personality, I would be perfectly happy with using GB to change my main to Good with GB and the others to Kind. But sadly, in a few generations, they will be all snarky and evil.

5. If the bonuses are already at other personalities, then why not swap them around? It is easy. And there are a ton of bonuses that are at multiple personalities, so I dont see the problem.

6. New suggestions are welcome, of course. But only as long as they balance the two personalities. If nothing else can be done, then I would love to see karma not affecting future personalities, so we can pick what we want.

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I can see that having a discussion with you is kind of pointless. You only want people to agree and refuse to see it any way but yours. Demanding people drop something that has quite a bit to do with the suggestion just because you don't really have a better response isn't exactly helpful to the conversation.

I won't bother to respond to the rest because it's not really worth it. You're determined to complain about it being not the exact way you personally want and don't seem to care about anyone else's game style but your own.

Anyway, good luck with your suggestion, but I highly doubt you're going to get exactly what you want as it is unfair to the entire community to change something they enjoy because you don't care for it.

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I am concentrating on GAME EFFECTS and not on personal achievements. I guess this is why we see it differently. You put more emphasis on a feature that gives no boost or reward, whereas I am weighting the situation according to the gameplay effects. Actual effects. Not bragging rights, not useless numbers but on effects that give you an advantage or disadvantage in gameplay.

I am not trying to get leaderboards or karma removed. I am trying to make the developers realize, that there is something wrong at the balance of the uncommon personalities. That is all.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

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With all due respect, everything is bragging rights or useless numbers. Stats mean nothing. Levels mean nothing. Colors mean nothing. Mutations mean nothing.

You can just as happily and easily play the game with a rolled king and a bunch of NCLs as you can with the rarest colors and highest stats.

Everything is technically useless.

I am not putting emphasis. I'm saying there's nothing wrong with an Evil personality that gives advantages to people that like the karma effects. I have no problem with them adding other effects that help with Explore or impression or anything else, but I do not think it's fair for you to declare a part of the game "worthless" because it has no worth to you.

That's like me saying "I don't like these bases. They add nothing to the game. Remove them because I don't personally breed them.". It's unfair to the people that do like an enjoy breeding or having those basis.

You don't care about karma. That's fine. However, demanding they remove all karma bonuses from the personalities is selfish and incorrect. People enjoy that personality. People are using that personality. That personality is enhancing their personal gameplay. You should acknowledge and respect that. You don't have to play that way, but neither should they have to play by yours.

Instead of trying to take away a personality feature that plenty of people enjoy, why not just suggest some additional Evil/Good personalities for them to add? You can't just go "that's not a part of gameplay". It is in the game. That makes it a part of it. That makes it a feature they enjoy and they like. Karma gain is an "actual effect", just like stat gain, levels, and breeding. They are gaining karma the same way you gain stats or breed for a color or work for a level. It is a part of the game and a feature people enjoy. You cannot dismiss it because you do not find it useful or worthwhile.

I guess we will have to disagree because I prefer that Personalities have something for everyone. And they do. All the features you want are available to you right this moment. Have a Snarky personality if you want a Snarky feature. If you get a cub that has a personality you do not want, you do not have to keep it. You have the option to change it or chase/kill/sell whatever you prefer.

I am not saying more Evil personalities can't be added. I hope more are added. However, I don't think the entire system should remove bonuses simply because you personally do not find them worthwhile. A good part of the community does. The game has to appeal to most of the players and not just a few; thus the features should have bonuses for all game styles.

Again, if the Evil personalities don't suit, take a Snarky and suggest new Evils. By the time it is a "problem", they were probably have more out. Xylax said that the additional personality features will be coming out this Friday or next, I believe.

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Quite mistaken.

1. I agree, tats mean nothing, this is why I have little care for them. My gameplay style has the side-effect of collecting them.
2. Levels have the effect of unlocking Biomes, thus more enemies, different interactions. So yes, they have a gameplay effect.
3. Base colors and markings have the effect of changing the visuals of your lions. So yes, it also has an effect.
4. Mutations change the appearance sometimes even the working of a lion. So yes, this also has an effect.
5. Karma? Get more bad karma to get Evil personality to get more bad karma to get Evil personality to get more bad karma... etc etc etc.

See what I mean?
Leaderboards? Okay, your name appears of the board and then what? Does being the highest level lion give you something? No, it doesnt. Or having the most successful huntress? Does it make her better or have some kind of effect on you? No it doesnt.

See what I mean?

Gameplay effects.
It is okay to have personal goals but gameplay effects is what I want. Good personality for example gives only boost that affect gameplay. Evil -on the other hand- has only one useful effect.

Make a difference.

"I prefer that Personalities have something for everyone."
Only problem is, that Evil personality doesnt really fit into that. Hunting and karma isnt all gameplay styles.

If they add more effects that actually make evil good and desirable, then it is fine. But until then, my suggestion is a balance because currently, there is none.

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1. Agreed. They're just a fun number.

2. Disagree. You can play the game just fine and never leave the first Biome. The other biomes are no more useful than stats. They simply add variety but not an actual bonus other than the visual.

3. Yes, it changes looks. But it changes looks like hunting changes stats. It gives no advantage to any kind of advancement in game at all. A gold lion hunts as well as an albino or a white lion.

4. Disagree. Mutation is only visual. It had no effect other than a lethal. Being lethal is actually an adverse effect as it kills the lion before it can hunt and breed.

5. Karma is a number. Just like stats. Karma is also a title, which gives you a visual effect (Deathlord of the Jungle for example), just like looks and mutations. Thus, the side-effects of karma are every bit as "useful" as mutations or colors. They give you a noticeable effect that others can see to know if you are "good" or "evil".

Yes, I see what you mean, but I don't agree. Karma is no more or less "useful" to the game than any other effect. It is "useless" to you personally perhaps, but there are people that care. I don't, but there are people that do. I don't feel it's right to tell them the goals they enjoy in the game are "worthless" simply because I do not share them.

The effect of being on the leaderboard is just as useful as stats, having a certain rare color, or anything else in game honestly. It's a way to visually let people now you worked at something. Be it levels, stats, colors, or karma. All of them are equal in strict terms of gameplay because you can play without any of them. I can have a rolled male with a group of NCL females that I hunt once a day for food and never leave the first Biome with and still play just as much/well as anyone else in terms of being able to use my Energy bar and make cubs. It's all relative.

True, hunting and karma isn't all play styles, but neither is leveling. A lot of people never level their king. A lot of people do.

This far, evil has one effect you personally find useful (+1 impression). One for karma (Heartless). And one for people who prefer not to hunt overmuch (Unscrupulous). Technically, Evil seems pretty balanced to all play styles.

Good could actually use a nice karma effect, I think personally for the people who want to build up more good karma to balance with Heartless.

Now, I do think Evil could use a few more options, but I don't think it's far to say it's "completely useless" because it's not to everyone.

I don't believe your suggestion is a "balance". I believe it is a suggestion to gear Evil toward your particular game style. That's not a balance, that's a personal desire. You desire Evil personalities to flatter your personal game style. However, my style isn't the only style. Your style isn't the only style. And Heartless is a personality that people who enjoy karma find very useful to their own play style. Why isn't their gameplay just as important as yours?

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