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Posted by | Changing HOW Crunchy Worm Works |
![]() Maedre[Natural White Lions] (#13877) King of the Jungle View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 01:48:27 |
Not long after the description of Crunchy Worm was released, people started worrying for the market's stability. That's because IF the crunchy worm works as the description says it works (Crunchy Worm upon use will have a big chance to duplicate mother’s looks onto 1 cub from the litter, presumably 40%), it might very well flood the market with special, rare bases, eyes and markings. Think about this for a while. Special lionesses could be duplicated and sold, and then duplicated again, and again. Event rare bases would become a "on demand" trait, as long as you have one lioness and one crunchy worm. This would basically drop the price of specials, rare lions, and make applicators and some of the other breeding itens we know and love obsolete. In other words, if everyone is special, than no lion is really special. It has been suggested to make it an utterly expensive item or to drastically lower the chances. I propose another solution: Changing how it works to make it essentially a female version of the "Keep Old King's Looks" feature in retiring. If we ignore the fact that this item could potentially break the market, it is an awesome tool for those that do not want to lose a beloved (or very expensive lioness) or have thematic prides. Because sometimes, no matter how special and awesome your lioness is, she might die and not leave a single keepable cub behind. So I propose two possible options: 1 - Make a lioness permanently infertile AFTER the effect triggers. This way, she can only have one duplicate, and won't flood the market. Just giving the crunchy worm would not make her infertile, though, only giving birth to a copy would. Something about how exhausting and demanding such a pregnancy was for her. This infertility cannot be raised by breeding itens. 2 - Make it usable only on 12 years old lionesses or older. This basically guarantees they will be used only on their last heat, such as in the case of you having a lioness that has lived enough, but you want her to give you an heir or heiress because you have been unlucky with her litters so far. As a secondary effect, instead of infertility (since she's old and will be permanently sterile anyway), make the crunchy worm's side effect of giving her a heat if she is on cooldown (but not nursing). It has been suggested that, in such case, crunchy worm could work 100% chance, which I think is fair. Every one of these options guarantees a copy, but it limites how many times a lion can be copied, and makes it so that there is only one reproductively active version of the same lion in the game. So, I figured that this would be a nice option for those of us that want a nice chance to keep reproductive versions of their beloved lionesses, without flooding and crashing the market in the process. This idea was gotten from Nyanunix suggestion: https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429283725&page=3 If no support, I would like to know the reason and if there's anything I could improve ![]() |
👁🗨Nifur-c lean ❄ (#94890) Astral View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 02:02:47 |
Maybe make it expensive and 100% guarantee one copy during lionesses last heat? I don't think it will lower applicators' prices, as apps are for people who want to modify a specific lion. Even if the duplicated lionesses might have special features, they are not dream lionesses for other users. Thus players will still be willing to attempt to breed their dream lions and buy apps ![]() ![]() Edited on 02/10/17 @ 02:04:00 by DitDot[Primal] [LightsOff] (#94890) |
Maedre[Natural White Lions] (#13877) King of the Jungle View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 02:07:37 |
Applicators are, right now, the only guaranteed way to get some event's special bases. A crunchy worm and a grain of paradise would mean you don't need an applicator anymore to have at least 80% of chance of getting that base, therefore making them less useful. As for dream lions, that's not how everyone plays. People want rare, colorful, diffferent, novelty lions. Lions that will flood the market if crunchy worms are possibly used to duplicate lionesses on every heat. ![]() |
Attic of The Sky (#12149)
View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 02:14:46 |
Maedre[Natural White Lions] (#13877) King of the Jungle View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 02:18:58 |
Not to mention cost efficiency. If you want, let's say, a heir with an event rare base, some event rare markings and an event mane, you have either to: 1 - Buy all applicators, which will cost multiple GB (I spent over 15 GB on my lion, and he's supposed to be a *natural* guy). OR 2 - Buy an heir that is close to what you want and apply them from there, which means special lions are worth money OR 3 - Spent multiple generations of breeding to get such heir. With a crunchy worm you could... 1 - Duplicate lionesses with the traits you need, including raffle lionesses 2 - Mass breed them 3 - Select the cubs that better fit what you need. 4 - Duplicate them 5 - Mass breed And so on. The mass breeding would cause an enormous amount of cubs, many with special markings and bases, the duplicated raffle lionesses could be sold and duplicated indefinitely and would be an overall economic hell. ![]() |
Nyanunix (#11487)
![]() Merciful View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 04:10:37 |
Maedre, you made excellent points! It upsets me slightly that some people don't understand the effect the crunchy worm, as it is now, would have on the market. ![]() |
Maedre[Natural White Lions] (#13877) King of the Jungle View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 04:17:38 |
Yep, a lot of people forget that the market works on the long term, too. Initially adding the crunchy worm as it is might even look good for the market (people will go out and buy special lions to duplicate). But give it a few weeks and the overall number of special lions in the game will make prices drop, not to mention the fail cubs of duplicated lions, that are likely to flood the market too. ![]() |
null (#56571)
Impeccable View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 04:25:07 |
Just a heads up, mutations are not apart of the passing traits! ![]() I personally like option 2 but with like..a 100% chance maybe?; but in general your idea of limiting the lioness to only use a crunchy worm once, successfully, is great. Otherwise, people would make clone factories out of lionesses. ![]() Edited on 02/10/17 @ 04:30:47 by Kenz | slate primal (#56571) |
Maedre[Natural White Lions] (#13877) King of the Jungle View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 04:26:45 |
Seiden 👑 (#31516)
Grumpy View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 05:01:37 |
Well, you're right.... Imagine people duplicating the "special NCL" onto dozens of perfect copies, with all of the special bases, markings and eyes... What would be valuable anymore? Nothing. ![]() |
Black Wings (#89608)
![]() Heavenly View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 05:27:41 |
Takoyaki☆ (#48057)
Unholy View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 05:31:10 |
Abbey tested the crunchy worms when they weren't released yet and there has said to be a litter of 5 that used a crunchy worm but didn't work at all. Plus, it's pretty expensive. No support, sorry ^^;; ![]() |
cin☆vo h2hoe (#106573)
![]() Sapphic View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 06:11:31 |
I would argue that it's not expensive... I already have 100 BB and I've only been casually exploring. Other people are getting 300 a day. That's a worm every single day. How is that expensive?? That just doesn't make sense to me. Also the fact that there were 5 litters (not a litter of 5, that's impossible) where it didn't work doesn't mean anything. It would be a similar chance for 5 litters in a row to be successful. You can't use such a small set of data and take that to mean anything about how it's going to play out when thousands of people are using it. It's a 40% chance, we've gotten that number. That's high. ![]() Edited on 02/10/17 @ 06:12:33 by cin✨siderealfelis (#106573) |
Takoyaki☆ (#48057)
Unholy View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 06:37:15 |
@Cin In an another thread trying to change the crunchy worm, Abbey said she did it I'm pretty sure ^^ But this is kind of like lion scrotums, they have a chance of passing the mother's mutation or not, but this is just by appearances, it's kind of like not wanting more leopons or dwarves ^^;; ![]() |
cin☆vo h2hoe (#106573)
![]() Sapphic View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 07:04:38 |
![]() This is exactly what abbey said, so, 5 litters, not a litter of 5. But that's not really important. I think comparing this to pons and dwarves is a bit more complicated than you might assume. Lion scrotum, for example, does not work on leopons. They have a chance of passing their mutation down and there is no item to change that chance. Lion scrotums do work on dwarves and other mutations, it gives a 25% chance for the female to pass down her mutation. Lion scrotums are essential to passing down those mutations as otherwise the chance is 0%. Furthermore, I don't think I would say I want "more leopons or dwarves". The dwarf market has already gone down in flames. It's so expensive to breed them with the price of lion scrotums and no one wants to buy them for the value they used to be at. The market is flooded with dwarves that people are desperate to sell. This market was at it's lowest point I'd say right after May (?) when lion scrotums were added to the shop. Everyone got lion scrotums, and suddenly dwarves were everywhere, and they lost a ton of their value. Now everyone I speak to absolutely abhors dwarf breeding because it's not worth it financially and the losses are so great. It sucked all the fun out of dwarf breeding when people were stuck with useless mutants they couldn't afford to breed properly. As for leopons, they're rare and continue to be quite valuable. I don't know much about the market for leopons but I do know that it would be sad to see the market go down to something like the dwarf market. There's something about things that are valuable and hard to obtain that inspires people to work hard to obtain them. Plenty of people have put in the hard work it takes to get a leopon and I feel like the kind of mentality that the people who support this item (crunchy worm) have is reckless and lacking forethought. Do you really want everyone to get a leopon? On one hand, that sounds great! Everyone has a leopon and they're happy yay! But then leopons are no longer special in any way. There's no goal for people anymore, there's no point to working hard in the game when things are just easily given to you. A game needs challenges to remain interesting. If we say fuck it and make everything easier then it becomes boring to lots of people. This item makes things too easy and it'll 100% fuck the markets up, and that's why I want it to change. Either with the price, the effectiveness, or Maedre's suggestions. ![]() |
👁🗨Nifur-c lean ❄ (#94890) Astral View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2017-10-02 07:22:21 |
The market is already screwed if you are talking about how normal it is to see a lion with special everything priced for 100SB and other cheap as hell prices, especially male lions. So I wouldn't mind if the market appears one or two more lions like these, and for addition maybe some of us can get our dream lions quicker ![]() |
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