Posted by Let Male Leopons Breed

JAX •
[3.12.21|MAZI nRLC+
👑] (#98288)

Divine
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Posted on
2018-02-05 03:56:04
So, recently I bought and Kinged a Leopon boy as a sort of 'final project and achievement' since I don't plan to be here terribly long afterwards after I breed and spread bone lace, bone inverted zebra, and make one final attempt to King a Sextafulv. Possibly to breed mandarin, so if you happen to breed a tigon, give me a tap on the shoulder friend ;)

Anyway, back to the suggestion. I noticed....my pon cannot breed. At all.

tumblr_p3o57wIhwp1wrwy5ro1_540.png

From a realistic standpoint, I can see the justification of this I guess. Male hybrids are often sterile....however the females tend to be fertile. Take the Savannah cat for example. First generation males cannot breed, however once you get around the 5th, 4th, and sometimes even 3rd Generation of Males, fertility can and does return. These males can and do sire kittens. My particular Leopon is a 5th or 6th generation pon and falls well within this range, so if realism is an issue for you, consider that as an argument. Also consider that the way Lioden handles leopons isn't particular realistic either. The only felines who could produce a leopon are a pure blooded lioness and a pure-blooded leopard.. A leopon crossed with a lion would produce a li-leopon or a leopard would produce a leo-leopon, later a li-li-leopon and so on down the line with more and more convoluted names. It should be noted that male leopons have apparently successfully fathered cubs before with other hybrids (ligers to be exact), to produce the Leoliger. There does not appear to be a source for this claim however.

tumblr_p3o74aTR5Y1wrwy5ro1_540.png

So, you see, there is a factual basis for this implementation.

As for the actual Implementation, I have two propositions:

Simple Implementation


Leopons would operate just as any male would, however inverse of the Primal. That is to say, the females can breed their mutation and pass it along while males would exist and never be able to pass their mutation. A 'pon siring another 'pon would be entirely predicated on the female pon and would be no different than studding to any other male. They'd essential be NPMs (Non-passing Muties) and their mutation would be purely aesthetic. Still, wouldn't it be cool to have a pon as the father of your cubs? So that's one (and I suspect will be the most popular) way we could do it. Generation would not matter in this implementation. A first or 50th generation of pon would be able to breed.

Considering there is basis for leopon breeding in reality and Lioden isn't realistic itself, there's no real reason I or any other future pon Kings should be restricted from breeding.


Bolstering Implementation


Leopons would never pass their mutation with other, normal lions, however if another Leopon bred with them they could bolster the chances of that pon. Now before you start crying and hit the no support button, let me clarify.
- First and Second Gen Male Pons would never be able to breed.
- This would be restricted to later generation male leopons. 3rd Gen Leopons would have a 25% chance of being fertile, 4th Gens a 50% chance, 5th Gens a 75%, and 6th and onward a 100% fertility chance. Each fertility chance bolsters a leoponess differently:
* 3rd Gen Male Pons would bolster a female by 4%. 4th Gen Male Pons would only bolster by 3%, 5th Gens by 2%, and 6th Gens by 1%. I am not sure if FGPs should have their base 10% improved upon in this manner, but am interested in hearing what you all think.
- Pons would still be able to breed normally with other lions, and would still not pass their mutation. I'm not sure how to marry this and the Pon x Pon specific breeding, concerning bolstering and passing, but maybe an item could be available to non-fertile leopons in the Oasis, similar to a Vuka Vuka. This way users would not have to take an unnecessarily huge risk when kinging a pon who's earlier than 6th generation. Even if he turns out not to be compatible with other pons, they should still be able to breed him to their other lions. This item would not suddenly make them Pon x Pon bolstering compatible.
- Male Leopons would have Hybrid Vigor. Hybrid vigor occurs when the offspring of two species is physically fitter and healthier than either parent. Lions have an energy bar of 100%. Perhaps a Leopon King, in a Trade off for his low fertility, could have more energy to spare for other things. Alternatively the vigor could be breeding specific and not be affected by things like explore, sparring, ect.
tumblr_p3oa9dHtKt1wrwy5ro1_400.png
Pon/Pon specific breeding interface. Obviously, 'pon breeders will be interested in any stud who raises their base chance to breed a leopon. Reverse 'pon breeders will also be interested, so this is potentially another market that could be created. There could be a separate division on the "Studding Services" bit that allows Leopon Kings to set prices specifically for any female leopon choosing their services and trying to bolster their chances. Female Leopons would be required to choose this option and would not be allowed to stud normally like a lioness would. Leopon Studding would have a minimum price based on how many marks that particular Leopon has. For example: my boy has 10 marks. His base price would be 10gb per 'Pon studding. Considering Pon breeders could sell any potential Leopons for 50x times that much upon breeding them, I'd be willing to raise the minimum price to 2gb per mark instead of just 1gb.

A complaint I foresee this having is that it would potentially make pons "too common", but I disagree. The percentage bolstering is honestly not that large, plus there have only been two Leopon Kings in the entire history of the website-- Leviathan and more recently my own boy. Likely, because of the huge expense getting a cub/adol pon and the almost universal tendency for male pons to be sex changed into females for breeding, Leopon males will remain rare.


Of these methods, which would you prefer? Please tell me of any add ons or concerns you have below, but more importantly...

tumblr_inline_p3i3xlZf1J1ux0ccw_400.png

Let him breed!






This suggestion has 363 supports and 97 NO supports.



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Edited on 05/02/18 @ 14:55:55 by Jaxapon [LeoponSunsetKing] (#98288)

Blue Pigeon 🐦 (#68580)

Warrior
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Posted on
2018-02-05 11:51:00
I support the first option; no need to go the complicated route. Lets just have hybrids being the inverse of primals.



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🌙 Morrígra
🌙 [G1 Mazi RLC] (#33027)


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Posted on
2018-02-05 14:29:28
I'd support the first option of NPM, without the hybrid vigor in any way (yeah...no).

With the inclusion of the hybrid vigor and second option of ponxpon bolstering, I'm saying no to the whole suggestion.



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JAX •
[3.12.21|MAZI nRLC+
👑] (#98288)

Divine
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Posted on
2018-02-05 14:55:10
Alright, since the second option is getting so much pushback, I've decided to strike it out.



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Micah (#76335)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2018-02-05 17:15:42
I'm going to support !!
I mean, why not? there's literally no downside's that I can think of.

Let them breed !!




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Katia (#134163)

True King
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Posted on
2018-02-07 04:27:22
I'd be alright with leopons being able to breed as long as they are treated as a NPM and they got no hybrid vigor. Otherwise I would reject this.



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Bread[G2-4xCelElyisa
nPie-4.2k] (#101361)


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Posted on
2018-02-07 05:20:14
Maybe there could be a rare item that gives male leopons and other male non passing mutation a chance to on their mutation? Kind of like the male version of Lion scrotum but with a much lower chance with leopons? (Such as 1% or less?)



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JAX •
[3.12.21|MAZI nRLC+
👑] (#98288)

Divine
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Posted on
2018-03-21 05:56:49
Nah, people would flip their shit if that happened lol



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😸 Chonk 😸 (#54568)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-03-21 06:09:54
I support this, so long as the male leopon has no chance of passing the leopon mutation. I support because:

Now that leopons are much more common, and becoming increasingly so, allowing people to king them while not having to sacrifice their kings breedability will help keep leopons values up. Right now, only two people have kinged leopons despite the great aesthetic value of a leopon king, simply because sacrificing the ability to breed to your own king is too great. I never understood why leopon had to be the only non breedable male mutation. I dont see sense in punishing someone for wanting to have a leopon king by not allowing them to breed.






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Takoyaki☆ (#48057)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-03-21 06:20:10
No support, also may I know where you got the information about how 6+ generation leopons tend to be more fertile? I looked at the wiki link you took a screenshot of and other sites to check but didn't find any information about 6+ generation leopons being more fertile ;v;



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JAX •
[3.12.21|MAZI nRLC+
👑] (#98288)

Divine
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Posted on
2018-03-21 13:17:26
I never said 6+ gen pons tend to be more fertile, I'm fairly certain I said 4+ gen SAVANNAHS tend to be more fertile, and Savannahs -- like leopons -- are felid hybrids.

Also, would you say why you dont support?



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😸 Chonk 😸 (#54568)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-03-21 13:35:09
If Lioden went the realistic route, EVERY mutation that wasnt hybrid would have to be passable when bred to another lion with that mutation, since mutations are genetic. Some mutations are even dominant so the male could pass it without the female carrying it. We all know that would trash the market so its not a good idea, but allowing a male pon to breed would only impact the market in a positive way (keeping pon values up). The realism argument is weak at this point of the game imo. We have lioness kings and cub kings. They can breed/stud but a leopon cant?



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Takoyaki☆ (#48057)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-03-21 13:44:33
Yes but almost every male leopons are sterile no matter what, no? When people mean savannah big cats, they probably mean non-hybrids since leopons tend to be infertile mostly in males. Unless it's actually proven that leopons tend to be more fertile after more generations rather than just normal big cats in general, the no support button will always be pressed by me ^^



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Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2018-03-23 06:19:39
While the only place I could find it was in a book called "Fact. Fact. Bullsh*t!: Learn the Truth and Spot the Lie on Everything from Tequila-Made Diamonds to Tetris's Soviet Roots-Plus Tons of Other Totally Random Facts from Science, History, and Beyond!" (randomly, I own this book, which is why I remember it lol) there is mention of an animal called a Leoligulor that is a hybrid of two hybrids! A male leopon and a female liguar. The first leopon cubs known to have been born never produced any offspring, but there are reports that later male leopons did.

Plus, I honestly can't see why it would matter that a male leopon could be king and not pass his mutation. It could only help the whole market if a high value lion was more sought after.



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Edited on 23/03/18 @ 06:25:27 by Bezthiel #ShrikeHoarder (#81210)

Snowcat13-G1 Ice-6
cimm (#52694)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2018-04-08 14:24:52
Agree with Locust - I would support only with your first simple implementation -no chance of passing mutation and no other benefits.. If it was just like any other NPM then I see no harm. It would be cool to have, and maybe help the Leopon market.



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Sarkshine (#138592)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-04-08 15:01:22
first suggestion supported



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