Posted by Revisiting Short Spine Syndrome?

soup (#52780)

Sweetheart
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Posted on
2018-06-24 23:16:34
Wall o' text incoming!

I know Short Spine Syndrome has been knocked back before, but I'd like to bring it up for a re-visit as we have a lot more mutations both in-game and upcoming now that would be fairly harsh IRL!

I'll go over three of the most common reasons against Short Spine Syndrome fairly quick, but if you have more reasons please put them in the thread!

Firstly: Short Spine Syndrome would render a lion unable to survive in the wild.

I don't think this is quite true- we have quite a bit of evidence now that shows that wild animals with Short Spine Syndrome can survive in the wild.

There are the well known cases of adult, or near adult animals that have been shot by hunters (An adult wolf shot in Russia, Adult fox with the syndrome, sub-adult coyote.)

There is also a short video of An alive adult Raccoon with Short Spine Syndrome that is seemingly doing pretty well for itself!

In addition, we have mutations in-game that render a lion unable to hunt (Blind, Eyeless, Deaf-upcoming, Clawless-upcoming) but due to the fact that lions work in a pride, they are fed regardless. We also have mutations that greatly hinder hunting (Dwarfism, Achromia) and an upcoming mutation (Toothless) that requires pride mates to tear up bite-sized chunks of food for their pride mate.
So impacted hunting ability wouldn't kill a lion with SSS.

Secondly: Short Spine Syndrome would result in early death due to internal deformities.

While we can't say anything for the wild animals that were shot, there don't seem to be any serious internal organ deformities associated with SSS- two dogs with SSS, Pig and Cuda, both had x-rays that showed that their organs weren't actually impacted all that much by their deformity. A lot of the 'shortness' seems to come from their tails and necks! So death as they age wouldn't be a necessity.
I can't say anything about their ability to breed, however- for obvious reasons, none of the dogs with SSS have been bred (neither has the horse), and finding any offspring the wild animals may have had would be impossible .

Thirdly: All the cases are in dogs, not lions!

As seen above, while most cases have been seen in dogs cases have also been recorded in foxes, coyotes and raccoons. A case has also been found in horses, and while it's not a feline it shows that SSS is not restricted just to canines.
As SSS is so incredibly rare, it could very well just be that a case hasn't been documented in felines yet.

So from this, I think we should definitely not count Short Spine Syndrome out instantly!

It could be a mutation that is visible from birth, and that causes a penalty to stats- maybe half of what a cub should have had. SSS lionesses could be able to hunt, but would be much more ineffective. SSS lionesses could be broodmothers though!
Not sure on Kinging. While I lean towards allowing them to be kinged (as Dwarf lions can be kinged, and they are also pretty handicapped on the whole hunting/fighting side of things), I'd love to see some other arguments!
On patrolling as submales- same as hunting lionesses. They can do it, but will be much less effective.
On reproducing- honestly, I can't find anything regarding SSS and reproduction. While I doubt males would be impacted, I honestly have no solid opinion on SSS lionesses reproducing. While an SSS lionesses internal organs wouldn't be impacted, pregnancy is another matter; I'll leave that open for anyone else to decide on

Tl;dr: Short Spine Syndrome itself would not kill a lion, has been found in multiple species, and any reduced hunting ability would be made up for with pride mates sharing food.



This suggestion has 249 supports and 7 NO supports.



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soup (#52780)

Sweetheart
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Posted on
2018-06-24 23:18:13
Oops, forgot one last note- SSS seems to have been around for a while, as the first reference to it was in 1690, from a painting of a dog by D. Kl. Ehrenstrahl seen here!



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rueliseo (#147927)

Sinister
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Posted on
2018-06-24 23:24:02
That raccoon was horrifying, but intriquing nonetheless.



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CaramelTurtles (#136947)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2018-06-27 13:35:43
My god they look like heads with legs

Support



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Astrid┋CLEAN 3.7K
3x Clouded (#124118)

Angelic
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Posted on
2018-08-23 07:59:26
i support! and adding onto the "all the cases are in dogs, not lions"- there's a TON of mutations on lioden that have not been evidenced in lions in real life (melanism is a popular one), so i honestly think we're far past that being an issue xD



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Edited on 02/11/18 @ 21:08:08 by Goldenheart (Divine Primal) (#124118)

fortmax (#91111)

Toxic
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Posted on
2018-10-06 16:40:04
No support, the actual condition itself hasn't been studied enough for me to even be comfortable saying that that raccoon or that horse even HAVE SSS- let alone that it could show in felids. Neither raccoons nor Coyotes nor horses are felids, let alone even FELIFORMS (raccoons are caniforms).

Generally, I just...don't really like it, if I'm honest? TBH I feel like I should be free to also just say "not supporting bc I don't like it"



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Anonymous (#44152)

Demonic
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Posted on
2018-11-02 20:53:01
From what i understand with this mutation is something found in dogs as it's other name is baboon dog syndrome. I won't not support this but right now i won't support either maybe more evidence will be shown that will change my mind who knows.



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FROZEN UNTIL FEB
2025? (#109650)

Harbinger
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Posted on
2018-11-06 22:45:23
I supported because I think it's a fair idea for a mutation, and should be seen by more players to add their thoughts.
Also, there is a German Shepherd named Quasimodo with SSS. He's become fairly popular on facebook and is an excellent example of the mutation, in case you want to add it to your original post. ^^

Quasi the Great



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Bailysis (#71958)

Astral
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Posted on
2021-09-28 08:41:33
Gonna agree with Fortmax and say no support. The idea is fine, and your suggestions for how it affects gameplay are sound, but why should it be added? Most mutations on this site are valuable for making the lion look cooler or more interesting, or simply because of their rarity. I don't see the same appeal for a lion with SSS; the living creatures with it don't look very appealing. Adding this mutation would include multiple new linearts and hundreds of bases, markings, etc. Is SSS worth all that effort?



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Caffeine addict (#238961)


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Posted on
2021-10-31 02:42:16
I love the overall idea! N9xPn2g3''width= a concept I made in ms paint in 5 minutes cuz I'm to lazy to use krita and my drawing tablet



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soup (#52780)

Sweetheart
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Posted on
2023-12-12 05:48:00
Giving this a bump because I forgot about it lmao



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