why not eliminate cream group... place the "cream" bases into the other groups as light/medium... cream afterall is not a pigment but a dilution.

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Zizi, that isn't my suggestion, but you're free to make your own suggestion for that if you wish.

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I'm bumping this and hoping to revive it because as time goes on, the dev team are adding more and more bases where they don't belong and if there ever is a rehaul, it means even more breeding projects will get screwed up.

This is an exerpt from the wiki page on base genetics, found here: Direct Link

"Countershaded bases are bases that have more than one colour in its makeup. They can include bases that have a dark topline and a light underside, or a light topline and a dark underside."

"Solid bases are bases that are completely or nearly the same colour throughout the entire base. Don't be fooled, though! Solid bases can have different colours, and even some shading details. They're just more "solid" all throughout."

However, while countershaded's description is pretty straight forward, I feel like this bit

Don't be fooled, though! Solid bases can have different colours, and even some shading details. They're just more "solid" all throughout.

seems like it was only added to save face on these decisions, as it absolutely goes against the rule for countershaded.

From the dev team's own description:
COUNTERSHADED = MORE THAN ONE COLOUR
SOLID = COMPLETELY OR NEARLY THE SAME COLOUR......... except when we decide to randomly make it have more than one colour and completely go against our own rules.

A running theory is that these bases are being put in genetics they don't belong in to try and promote interest in those areas - see how Seer which is clearly a black base was added to cream - when what they should be doing is following their own genetics rules and just providing interesting bases. They fixed gold by adding golds and putting them in the correct genetics, proving this isn't a necessary corner to cut.

Some examples: Sha was added as a Red Dark Solid despite being literally red and blue.

But it's okay because it doesn't have a dark topline and light underline or vice versa, right? Nope, they break that rule too. Labradorite, Bloodborne and Haze are perhaps the most egregious examples of this, featuring not only two entirely different colours (or four, in the case of Labradorite) but dark versus light toplines and underlines, and are listed as SOLIDS.






This "shoving stuff anywhere" saga feels lazy, and like the core foundations of the genetics system are being disregarded in favor of just pumping out as many bases as possible to fill empty slots. This is ridiculous. If you are going to make genetics rules for this game, they need to be stuck to. I support the decision of a rehaul entirely, even if it risks my own projects I have going.

I'm also quoting this from Bezthiel - Anarchist You Hate (#81210) :
"In fact I'm much more upset that we started the whole genetics haul to fix this sort of confusion and the Admins somehow defeated the whole purpose by placing bases in categories that don't even match."

No. Seriously. What was the point in several genetics rehauls, ruining projects over and over again, to end up with the exact same mess?

If this is ever fixed (again) then the dev team really needs to stop repeating this mistake, so this never has to be addressed in the future.

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The biggest mistake of all is putting:
- Pink-themed Cherry Blossom in Cream genetics while all the other pinks like Maroon, very similar Orchid, ardor etc. are Red.
- Fire-themed Ember in Gold genetics while all other fire-themed bases are in Red.
- Solid black Seer in Cream genetics
These could be easily mistaken for different genetics by beginner players (hect, I was once absolutely sure Cherry Blossom is Red) because they just don't fit!

And how come Haze is Black Dark when it's mostly white?

I also think the brown-themed Black bases (Chestnut, Vandal, Dark Brown/Liver - these two are almost identical!) could be easily switched to Red and even Cream (Vandal) genetics

And combos like Cloudburst, Nadir etc. should be Special. They are hard enough to breed as combos and they won't even give Uncommon/Rare "fails" when bred to.

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I actually bought Seer's applicator because I thought it was Black Base. Yes, I should have read the news post more closely, however who in their right mind would assume THIS



is cream?

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omg this is soooo complicated, but from what i can figure out, it would make a lot more sense

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Support. Why the frickfrack is Seer a Cream, how is demiurge a solid, what are y'all admins doing.

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I'm back again because it's September and I was reminded of this.





"Countershaded bases are bases that have more than one colour in its makeup. They can include bases that have a dark topline and a light underside, or a light topline and a dark underside."



This literally RIGHT THERE - RRRRIIIIGHT THERE - says that it contains completely or nearly the same colours for solid. How is gold the same colour or nearly the same colour as dark brown? But then it immediately goes on to contradict its own rules with this "don't be fooled!" section. That's the thing. We aren't fooled. The rules for genetics aren't hard to follow. This community understands the genetic rules. The problem is the rules haven't applied in a long time.

Literally just now in chat, another person was baffled Seer was Cream, not Black. Watch people's eyebrows go to space when you tell them that Cherry Blossom - the iconic PINK base isn't red. Pink is a shade of red. God, I hope this gets fixed after the recode.

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Honestly makes me wonder why the solid/countershaded divide is there at all. I think it's only natural that most special bases will be countershaded, because there's only so much you can do with one solid color, so if the system were organized logically, it's kind of inevitable that countershaded specials would greatly outnumber solid ones.

Btw, I support OP's changes overall, but I think Pearl should be categorized as Light. I'm a bit biased here since the Dark fails annoy me lol, but also it's noticeably much paler than, say, Ruffian or Arabica.

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100000% support. I only wish that paired with this we moved some bases to their correct color groups also.
[Bast is clearly a different version of Sunset yet it's not a red base, cherry is pink but in cream?]

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Espenfalls, if you look at my images I've actually switched both of those bases into red genetics groups! Of course any new bases that need to be swapped aren't there as I haven't updated my images in a very long time ^^"

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Ah, I spotted it now! Thank you xp

I hope the Lioden Dev team look at this and take it seriously. It isn't like it'd *massively* change the game in a bad way, it genuinely would make things less confusing.

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I would actually prefer Lioden goes the route of something somewhat similar to Wolvden's genetic system. It's much less annoying and straightforward. Not an exact copypaste, but I do believe Lioden needs another genetic rehaul sometime.

For those wondering, it's Dark, Cool, Muted, Warm, and Special (Special is its own category) with Dark, Medium, and Light like Lioden, and then it's separated into tiers (which Lioden technically already has)

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yes please! support!

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