Posted by Changing the Ember Base from Gold to Red Genetics

Blue Pigeon 🐦 (#68580)

Warrior
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Posted on
2019-08-10 17:33:01
In this suggestion I am arguing why I believe the Ember base should be moved from gold genetics to red genetics. For the ease of readability, I have divided this suggestion into 5 different talking points.

1. The base itself.
2. Swatches
3. The Fire Theme
4. The parallels to the Inferno base.
5. What about the Golds?


1. The base itself.
8mVs2GK.png
Just from a cursory glance from the base, most people would agree that it looks decidedly reddish. The main colour is a warm saturated reddish-brown, it has orange highlights (similar to the colour seen on the fiery base) between the whiter underbelly and the main dark colour and it has an unquestionably vibrant red dorsal line on the back. If one was to just look at the base, without any knowledge of the genetics, I would be surprised if anyone guessed it to be placed within the gold genetics. Indeed, even the name of the base suggests a red placement – embers being the glowing red-hot ashes of a fire, whether on a fuel source or floating in the air.

In the News thread, an admin representative stated that the main colour of the base is brown as part of the reason why it is in the gold genetics, however, being brown isn’t simply enough to be placed into the golden genetics group. After all, there are plenty of brown bases in red genetics (indeed, more than in the golden genetics) and these are often extremely saturated, similar to the colours seen in the Ember base. In order to illustrate this, I will compare the Ember base with the most similar bases from the red and gold genetics.

2. Swatches
In one of the responses to a user arguing that the Ember base was more red than brown, the admins stated:

“It's not just the colour that picks to brown, it's whole look that is pretty dark golden and fits to the genetic chart. It has red accents because of the factor bases, and has grey accents because of the other factor bases.”

In this section, I will respond to this argument that the Ember colour fits to the dark golden genetics by comparing it with bases from both the golden and red genetics which I feel most closely (I will respond to the ‘dark golden look’ argument in section 4).

When looking to compare bases in the red and gold genetic group with the Ember base, I used a colour wheel to more easily disseminate between the main colours of each base. Ember’s main dark reddish brown colour was used for the centre, with dots for the red and grey accent colours.
I then looked for bases in the genetic groups that are most similar to the Ember base. For the Gold genetics, I compared Ember with:
- Topaz
- Ochre
- Chatoyant
- Trophy
And for the Red genetics, I compared Ember with:
- Umber
- Ruddy
- Redwood
- Henna
- Black Rose
- Chocolate
- Auburn
- Bloodbourne
Whilst yes, I have included more bases in the red genetics than the gold bases, this is because I feel that these are the only bases in the gold genetics which can get anywhere close to being similar to the Ember base. If you want to look at other golden bases to compare, you can click here to go to the genetics page.

8mVs2GK.png

Now just from a brief look, it should be clear that the main colour making up the ember base fits the red genetics bases much more uniformly than that of the gold genetics. There are many red bases with similar colours (or colour) to the Ember shade. Indeed, even the highlights fit with many lighter red bases – such as brown, sienna and blazing. Whereas the gold bases do not generally have such a saturated dark reddish-brown as a main colour and are indeed as a rule much lighter in shades and more yellow. From my comparisons, the two golden bases which most resemble the Ember base’s main colouration are Ochre and Trophy. However, the dark brown colour in Trophy is an accent colour around its main golden shades, and whilst ochre is somewhat reddish, it is nowhere near as saturated as the Ember base.
Comparison between Ochre, Ember and Trophy to illustrate my point:
8mVs2GK.png

To conclude, the Ember base is best placed within the red genetics, as shown by the similar shades of browns and reds which are already within the red genetics, as opposed to the gold genetics which has very different shades of brown and yellow colours.

3. The Fire Theme

Earlier in the suggestion, I quoted the admins stating that the “whole look... is pretty dark golden.” I have discredited this in section 2 – showing that it bears far more similarities with the dark/medium red bases than those in the gold genetics. However, I do believe that Ember does indeed share a common ‘look’, as a so-called ‘fire base’. Within the red genetics there are several bases named after aspects of fire – these being fiery, blazing, inferno and brimstone. Ember fits very well both in theming and colouration, within this theme of fire. To illustrate:

8mVs2GK.png

A key point here is that, other than the grey accent patches, all of the colours found in the Ember base can be found within other ‘fire bases’. The Ember base has a deeply saturated brown colour similar to the one found in Brimstone, whilst having bright orange and red accents similar to the colours found in Blazing and Fiery. With this clear relation to other red bases, the placement of Ember in the gold genetics is puzzling. Especially when considering that this is not the first time that a base almost universally agreed to be of red genetics was placed in the gold genetics.

4. The parallels with Inferno in the Golden genetics
The situation with Ember is eerily similar to the issue when Inferno, which is now a red, countershaded, medium base, was once within the gold genetics.

8mVs2GK.png

With inferno, the main reasoning used to defend its inclusion within the gold genetics, rather than the red genetics, was that its yellow underfur was sufficient enough to qualify as golden. Obviously when looking at the base itself, we can see that, whilst the pale yellow is a powerful aspect of the inferno base, the varying shades of reds and browns seen in most of the base made it’s inclusion within the gold genetics ultimately incongruous and this was fixed when the last large scale genetics revamp occurred.
As such, the precedent has been set. Following on from what I have argued, there is more than enough evidence that the Ember base should follow the direction of Inferno, and have a change in genetics from dark golden to dark red. However, there then comes the issue of the current lack of desirable gold bases in the gold genetics, which I will discuss in the next section.

5. What about the Gold genetics?
Some may argue that Ember, though discordant with the gold genetics, should remain where it is as there is an absent of interesting bases within the gold genetics. This I fundamentally disagree with, for similar reasons as to why people disagreed with inferno remaining in the gold genetics.

- It does not fit with the other gold bases. This means that those who enjoy breeding golden bases will be unlikely to breed for the Ember base and those who enjoy the look of the Ember base are discouraged from breeding it due to not liking the resulting golden bases it produces.
- Ember is a combo base made with a red and black base parent. When breeding, the only golden base which can help produce more Ember bases is itself. There is no mixing with the other golden bases other than the gold bases it may currently produce, none of which greatly resemble it. Hence it would make more sense for the base to join the red genetics with the red parent bases where it can produce 'fail bases' which resemble it.

However, whilst the dark golden group may have to temporarily lose a base, there are already many user suggestions for golden bases that resemble the other golden bases far more closely and represent what people want in a golden base. For example, there is already a suggestion made for a golden base which closely resembles Ember except with colours more in line with the golden genetics (a 'smoulder' base). When there are so many rich, interesting golden base suggestions from users, there is no need to have bases that clearly belong in another group.

Conclusion
To conclude, the Ember base shares extraordinary similarities with the red genetics group such to the point that it’s inclusion in the gold genetics group is incongruous with the other bases. Thus, it should be moved into the Red Dark Countershaded Special genetics and a different base, maybe one of the many fabulous user gold base suggestions, should take its place.



This suggestion has 348 supports and 36 NO supports.



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Edited on 08/01/21 @ 14:30:29 by Blue Pigeon 🐦 (#68580)

🌻 the serval
spots (#98320)

Heartless
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Posted on
2019-08-12 11:05:15
^^

There is a section of this suggestion that explains what we can do to make up for it to Gold, and the rest of this suggestion plus the replies explains why it actually harms Gold to remain there.



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Bezthiel 🍉 (#81210)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2019-08-12 15:12:46
So... I'm really torn here. To me the actual look of the base means it could rightfully belong in either group, so I'm not going to talk about looks.

I don't like the base itself is my main problem. Plenty of other people seem to like it though, and from what I've seen they'd like it EVEN MORE if it were in red. And I need gold to finally get actual gold f'ing bases, not more red, blue, and green ones.

I know very well since this is in gold that now it'll be years before dark gold gets a new base.



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Edited on 12/08/19 @ 15:13:17 by Bezthiel (#81210)

Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)

Phoenix
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Posted on
2019-08-13 02:12:05
If gold needs More bases, they should make more bases for that group instead of an wildly off coloured red looking base to fill gaps, don’t you think?

It’s becoming a common thing seeing bases dropped in groups they wildly don’t belong visually just to bridge a gap.

I wish they would make more common bases. More and more of these special bases are being released and as a result, they are starting to outnumber the commons



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Edited on 13/08/19 @ 02:13:35 by Desolace, Nadir Ferus (#36375)

TrollBerserker[PFM]
(#110675)

Astral
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Posted on
2019-08-13 04:22:26
Yes. This base look nothing like Golden. If we need more golden bases than just make a proper gold one. It's not like this base is going to breed from regular Gold bases, only with it's component which are Black or Red.
And can we finally change Cherry Blossom to Red too while we're at it?



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Edited on 13/08/19 @ 04:23:55 by TrollBerserker [PFM] (#110675)

🌻 the serval
spots (#98320)

Heartless
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Posted on
2019-08-15 10:17:01
When is this going to happen?



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🌻 the serval
spots (#98320)

Heartless
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Posted on
2019-08-24 18:42:05
gamers i still believe in this happening



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houndypauus (#148444)


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Posted on
2019-09-06 05:50:56
ME TOO! red deserves this ok,,



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Blue Pigeon 🐦 (#68580)

Warrior
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Posted on
2019-09-06 10:05:31
It's not about which genetic group is more deserving. The golden genetics definitely deserves more bases. But it deserves bases which makes sense within the group, not a base which belongs in the red genetics.



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Starrats | G1 Bast
AHR Shreds (#46117)

Majestic
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Posted on
2019-10-04 13:42:58
I like ember in gold it is why I bred for 1. Finally a nice looking shiny darker base in the gold group
So i vote NO



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🌻 the serval
spots (#98320)

Heartless
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Posted on
2019-10-04 13:56:12
A nice looking shiny darker base in the gold group?

You mean like Trophy and Ornament?



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Starrats | G1 Bast
AHR Shreds (#46117)

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Posted on
2019-10-04 13:58:39
No dark as in a bit orange



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yeehaw country man (#122683)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2019-10-04 15:05:44
Ember isn’t gold. It’s red. Red bases should be in the red base group. Simple as that.



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Starrats | G1 Bast
AHR Shreds (#46117)

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Posted on
2019-10-04 15:14:42
then what about bast??? bast is more red than ember



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yeehaw country man (#122683)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2019-10-04 15:17:38
This thread isn’t about the Bast base lmao



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🌻 the serval
spots (#98320)

Heartless
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Posted on
2019-10-04 15:29:53
Bast is nowhere near as red as Ember. Bast doesn't even have red, it has yellow and purple.



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