I think that if this were to be implemented, it would actually be most realistic if severely inbred lions had a stat modifier making it so they were born with lower stats than they would have otherwise. This would simulate the inborn weakness that inbred animals are so often afflicted with.

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@CleverFool (Anna) (#143108) I like that idea a lot more than mine, actually!

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I feel like it's actually fine as is. Players who don't like it don't breed dirty lions, and people with dirty lions just continue on with it.
Plus, I feel like it would be an unnecessary difficulty barrier for new players.

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Kind of on the fence for this, I don't personally mind having dirty lions (very hard to find clean lions that I like) and going clean would be a pain. I kind of agree with Anna, maybe just a stat modifier? Although I really like your lethal mut chance idea, as well. Just feel like having inbred lions with health issues/ and/or the chance of dying would make the game harder, even though that's how it would be irl. x3

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Personally it never made sense to me why inbreeding never affected anything, because it’s definitely bad in real life.. but at this point it would be hard to implement this because so many people have inbred lions.

I’d support as long as it’s possible to “breed out” the inbredness in a lion. For example, my king has several instances of inbreeding shown in his heritage page, so he would have the stat penalty. But if he and his offspring are bred to clean lions for generations, so that the inbreeding doesn’t show on their heritage pages (but still technically there if you go back enough), then there shouldn’t be a stat penalty.

For example, a lion with an inbreeding at the parent level would have a higher penalty than if there was inbreeding at the grandparent level. However, the penalties stack with each inbred pairing a lion has in its heritage, going as far back as great great grandparents. Beyond that, a lion’s ancestors are too distantly related to have a negative effect.

I feel like this is realistic, since most animals (and honestly, people) have inbreeding in their lineage if you go far back enough. Breeding 100% clean lions shouldn’t have to be the only way to avoid a penalty, and it would make it easier for dirty breeders to adjust to the change.

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I Support! My uncles cat's parents were siblings and he was born with half a back leg(Sad but hes like 6 years old now and still catching mice) We call him gimpy!

Anyways, of course his parents as well were inbred and such. So to make this more realistic and non OP. I like the 10 instances of inbreeding to actually raise(like 2%) chance of a lethal mutation. Also Stat reduction(10%) Would be pretty cool as well, the more inbreed, the less stats there is and the higher chance of a lethal mutation(or AMP) to be present.

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https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429209168

Inbreeding effects are on the permanently rejected masterpost, I think it was added somewhat recently.

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@Angela |HH|FullSkyward (#77401)

Darn

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If lethals could be produced by inbreeding, people are going to inbreed their lions until they get lethals which would way too easy, causing lethals to be less special. I would support if the inbreeding gave lions lower stats and a higher chance to die.
+ inbreeding suggestions are permanently rejected ^^

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No support to inbreeding having any in-game effect, positive or negative.

Some users such as myself find the idea of breeding siblings, cousins, mothers to sons, and fathers to daughters disgusting. Which is why I breed for clean heritages as much as possible.

I do not support inbreeding having a positive effect for this reason. The thought of mass-breeding siblings to siblings for *any* reason is just a little gross... Especially if you are purposefully doing it to benefit yourself. Thats just a tad disturbing. It wouldn't make lioden look very good...
"oh and yes, breed your sibling lions to each other, or mother to son/father to daughter, enough times, and we will make it have an EXTRA chance of having a mutation. Keep it up guys."
No thank you? I do not want to hear that from the news from the virtual game I play. Giving inbreeding a positive impact on the game would make it feel very disturbing for myself and many other players who feel similarly to me.

Yes, in the real world inbred animals would have certain mutations/deformities at a higher rate.
HOWEVER, the difference is this - in the wild and real world, these mutations most of the time if not always do nothing to help the animal, only hurts their chances of survival or living a normal life. Yet in our game, mutations boost the value. Lethal mutations are like gold on lioden, whereas in real life they are a tragedy.

However realistic it would be to add an increased chance of mutations to inbred lions or any other positive outcome, it would only harm the way players see the games' morals.


Even though my standpoint and personal bias is the point above, there is another thing that needs to be addressed. Those who dont care about inbreeding or dont mind it. Many players dont mind inbreeding simply because it has no in-game effect.

If we were to add a NEGATIVE outcome to inbreeding, such as stat or survival rates dropping or early death chances, this would completely destroy the economy in the game for inbred lions. No one is going to purposefully inbreed so that death chances rise while stats drop, no one is going to want to inbreed in general. Suddenly, the whole game is going to become an army of clean breeder. Making every single inbred king and inbred lion drop in value drastically.

Find me one lion in the whole game that has over 8k stats and isnt inbred. Pretty damn hard isnt it?
The entire stat community is circled around inbreeding - it has to be for maximum stat passing. To add a stat drop from inbreeding would practically destroy that entire aspect of the game. Look at just about every single statted female in this game and you will see on almost all of them at least one instance of inbreeding. Most statted kings as well.
Clean + high stats just doesnt exist in this world apart from very, very rare cases.

The players who breed for stats, for the most part, dont care about inbreeding at all. They only care about stats.

Why would we take the thing they dont care about, inbreeding, and make it effect the thing they do care about, stats, in a negative way? How is that fair to those players who were only minding their own buisness and enjoying + putting effort into the game in the way they like?


I know I sounded quiet firm and perhaps unfriendly in this, and I would just like to point out that I absolutely do not want to come off as someone disrespectful. I definately see the logic in adding an in-game effect to inbreeding and I respect those who do as well.

I just dont see any good coming from it at all, and wanted to make it clear why I felt that way.

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