Posted by Hiding Triggering Images for Players

ratthew {G2 Torn
Solaris!} (#128553)

Maneater
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Posted on
2020-03-04 20:56:58
WHEW. So. How about that news post?

For those uninformed, Lioden has officially stated that they're going to start rolling out more self-censorship features. This means that we, as players, can expect in the sometime future for there to be a feature that hides NSFW or gore images, and then some.

I don't know if this is due to our efforts on this topic or not, but either way, it's a HUGE win for everyone here. Thank you all so much for your support!

As with every other edit, I'm leaving the rest of this post the same. But as of right now, I think we can officially consider this a success! <3


EDIT: I'm putting this at the beginning because it's important. The event is over but this is STILL a problem that persists in the game. I implore you to not ignore this for the next year until more people have to go through this again. Thank you. Edit over.

Hi all! I realize this was posted about a year ago, and was met with a very split responses. So I'm here to also post! I please ask that you read the whole post before supporting or not supporting.

So, as the title says, this suggestion is to hide gore or bloody images for players who are sensitive to that sort of thing! Everyone pretty much gets the gist of what this is, as I have seen old topics like it. But I figure some people might have questions, so I'm prepared to answer those! Let's start with a bit of FAQ.

Q: This game is 16+, and should have gore/blood (and other adult themes) in it, as that's how lions work.

A: Sure! This game is 16+, but that doesn't mean everyone 16 or over wants to see a fairly realistic drawing of an elephant with its face torn off. Not seeing blood/gore wouldn't ruin an integral part of this game, such as taking away breeding, another 16+ topic. As for the "that's how lions work" part, well, this game isn't *really* that realistic, now is it? We literally have an event based around the apocalypse. We have green and blue and pink lions. We meet a manticore and fight with heaven and hell.

Q: Why not just disable the whole event?

A: Why should someone have to cease from playing the game because of something that can easily be avoided? Events are such an important part of this game and community, and to force someone not to be a part of it because they're sensitive to seeing images that depict terrible things isn't a good way to handle this. If someone wants to still participate, they should be able to! Also, the March event in particular also helps to raise funds for anti-poaching organizations. To force players to hide the event could negatively impact funds raised.

Q: Why can't you just use adblock and block the images that way?

A: First off, that would require having to look at the images first in order to get the image url to block them. Secondly, that doesn't work on mobile, which a LOT of players use primarily! Having a toggle would be much better suited for mobile players.

Q: Yeah, but I want to see gore.

A: You can! The idea I have in mind is a toggle that appears on a users page in the same area you would change your password. There, you can use a toggle to disable gorey images. Maybe in the future, if enough support is gained, there can be support for the sexually explicit images of lions in the February event.

Q: But there's so much other triggering stuff besides the event! How are you gonna hide that?

A: Simply put, you don't need to. If you don't want to interact with bloody looking lions, you don't have to. However, in order to enjoy the game to its fullest, you DO have to play the events. There is literally never a point in time on this site that there isn't an event going on.

Q: What would the images be instead?

A: Depends on what's easiest to do! It could be a blurred image instead, or the image could simply not load in, or it could just be replaced by a generic "BLOCKED" sign or something of the sort. It could also be an option to hide ALL event images while still keeping the event text up. Honestly, anything to make people more comfortable would work!

Q: Why should the devs waste time on this?

A: Well, because the players are important! Without them, there would be no game, and no matter how small the minority who NEED this are, the people who want it are probably a larger group in total. I'm uncomfortable with seeing this stuff, sure, but I'm not having a panic attack upon seeing this and being forced out of playing the whole game for a month because I physically cannot stand seeing it, like others are. I see no reason why people should be excluded from the fun of this game because of things that are out of their control, and I'd hope that the devs can see that too.


These are just some frequently asked questions I noticed on other similar boards I thought I'd take care of, but if anyone else has questions, please feel free to ask those! I'm very willing to talk to anyone who's interested in supporting, or anyone who is wary about supporting.

:::EDIT:::

Bezthiel made an absolutely excellent point, that I'm going to quote here:

"If the ToS says:
6.1
You are bound by, and must comply with, our Code of Conduct.

6.2
You also agree that you will not in connection with the Game:
breach any applicable law, regulation or code of conduct;
publish or send any Content (including links or references to other content), or otherwise behave in a manner, which:
is defamatory, threatening, harassing, invasive of privacy, offensive, vulgar, racist, hateful, discriminatory, obscene, pornographic, sexually suggestive, misleading, abusive or deceptive or which attacks sexual orientation, promotes self-harm or eating disorders, involves murder, rape, suicide, terrorism, excessive gore or hacking;

Then these are things that I can reasonably assume are not mentioned in site context.

Yet rape, suicide, and gore certainly are. We should either be warned or be able to opt out.

And before anyone says "but the newspost!" The 'excuse us for being blunt' is not the same as 'you will be shown pictures of horribly tortured, maimed, animals'. A warning is blunt."

A few suggestions have been made about the overall functioning of the system! In general, it seems a lot of people enjoy the idea of just disabling explore images in general. This is a simple solution and could work wonders for everyone.

On the other side of the spectrum, we have suggestions where players could pick and choose which images to disable, whether that be by a category (NSFW images) or by looking at a list of image descriptions and disabling them that way.

To reflect these options, I've changed the name of the topic from "Hiding Gore for Players" to "Hiding Triggering Images for Players" as we've come to the conclusion that it isn't just gore that's the problem.



This suggestion has 257 supports and 75 NO supports.



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Edited on 08/05/20 @ 12:11:20 by clay {CLEAN Solaris!} (#128553)

🐢Eggplant🐢 (#173154)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2020-04-23 07:12:03
Full support. For me, some of the images in the March event are incredibly triggering and I get physically sick to my stomach whenever that elephant or that rhino pops up. Hell, just thinking about it is making me nauseous. I love the March event and the message and story it brings with it, but I can't stand to look at some of the images. I don't want to miss out on applicators because of that.

It's also worth noting that I don't have access to an adblocker, so this would be incredibly helpful in more ways than one.



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🍒
𝖘𝖔𝖓𝖊 (#84214)


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Posted on
2020-04-23 07:21:51
I love how the only argument against this is "dont be pussies >:(((((". huge support



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nico (#199820)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2020-04-23 08:08:42
Full support. I'm lucky enough that my PTSD doesn't leave me unable to participate in the gorey events, but I can absolutely understand why someone would want to avoid them. It's not about "growing up"; I'm perfectly aware of what I need to avoid personally, and clearly the people who are affected by gore are also aware that the visual content is something they are not able to handle. That isn't immaturity. No one can remove their trauma or choose to be not triggered by something. It is unfair to effectively prevent someone from participating in an event based on something they cannot control.




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Dier ~ G1 Harlequin
x8 Ros (#80015)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2020-04-23 17:23:59
My point is that, I think the Lioden team are stretched already and I don’t think this is a solution. There are so many disturbing images on this site and that’s always going to be the case. Heck, the most disturbing one for me is the crushed hyena in January—far more than an elephant without a face, because that is dying slowly and I absolute agony with half of its body crushed to a pulp. Hence, I don’t think this suggestion fixes things and I think The team would do better to think of a different option—such as allowing people to turn off images they don’t want to see, either based on the image or the encounter description. Furthermore, ignoring that, what about all the bloody decors etc? While I feel the game should be inclusive, invariably someone who has extreme PTSD (etc) will be endangering themselves by playing it at all times IMO.

I don’t have PTSD and don’t get triggered by such things, however, it is disturbing. I just don’t feel this will really help matters, it’s not a properly thought out suggestion as it still leaves so many other triggering encounters in the game.



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ratthew {G2 Torn
Solaris!} (#128553)

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Posted on
2020-04-23 19:07:57
@Dier It's incredibly easy to avoid the bloody decor on lions, because you are able to opt out of looking at those images. You are *not* able to opt out of event images without opting out of the event entirely, which is an integral part of the game.

I'm not sure you understand the point of the post- we are giving people the option to turn off images they don't want to see, by turning off explore images either based on their NSFW status, or entirely. Which is what you just suggested in your response.

Also, your point that the mods are stretched thin- which means they would only be able to implement something simple if at all- is then contradicted by your point that there are many other triggering encounters in the game that could be included. If they're stretched thin, it would be better for them to implement something simple that could help people now, rather than implement something site-wide that takes up a lot of their time, right?

You state you don't have PTSD and say you don't feel like this will help people who do, and yet there are many people who support this as well as a few comments of those saying they *do* have PTSD and this would help them greatly. That's just food for thought, I suppose.



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ᴄᴀᴘᴘᴜᴄʜ
ɪɴᴏ (#188320)


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Posted on
2020-04-23 19:18:44
I support! My little sister loves to sit and watch me play lioden, because the lions are 'so cute' (especially my heir, who is decorated with tons of flowers!) <3
being able to quickly toggle and hide all the nasty stuff insted of having to cover her eyes all the time would make it a nicer experience for us both!



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aloiria [2.2K g1
uneven] (#168423)

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Posted on
2020-04-23 19:22:10
I’m kinda on the fence.

People with issues who can’t stomach gore shouldn’t be forced out of a event since that’s just unfair, but the team is just too busy to add such a specific feature it wouldn’t be as useful as adding a flat-out ‘disable all images’. People find different things disturbing, so there would be constant complaints or ‘Make [insert image] blurred also!] ‘ threads.

I 100% understand why people would want this, and it’s overall a nice suggestion, but to what seems to be a good few users, it does take away some of the ‘shock’ element and really numb the reality of the March Event tries so hard to show with imagery, but then again someone’s mental health is more important then a image.



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Creek (#188551)

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Posted on
2020-04-23 19:44:41
Full support. I get why it can be said how the team can be super busy with other projects, but this is something a good portion of lioden users are suggesting, and the users should be listened to as well. It isn't impossible to create a type of toggle function, and i'm sure many would be grateful. The "it's the whole point of the event" saying is just subjecting everyone to a graphic thing that some might not be able to handle (despite the site's age restrictions to 16+..just because someone is older than 16 doesn't mean they are fine with bloody content).

It's not only that some just don't want to see the gore, but that some actually can't handle it. These people need to be listened to as well.

I think this is one of those things where there isn't a downside. The people that want to be able to see the gore can not use this function, while the people that don't can have it censored. Images don't need to be the only way there is shock value for the event. There are plenty of extreme statistics that can be used as well to create a strong emphasis.

Idk. I think this is a basic feature that benefits every user with the choice of censoring gore and such images, and doesn't negatively impact the users that don't mind the blood and gore.



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ratthew {G2 Torn
Solaris!} (#128553)

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Posted on
2020-04-23 19:51:48
@aloiria It wouldn't be disabling all images, it would be only disabling images that pop up when you're exploring. To disable everything would truly defeat the purpose of the game. You cannot play this game without exploring, full stop. So to give users the ability to continue to explore without having to see disturbing content that could trigger them would be incredibly beneficial to a lot of players.



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Ꭾ𝔢𝔯𝔰ia (#168364)

Divine
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Posted on
2020-04-23 20:07:16
Support! I don’t have any problem with the gore, but when I first joined lioden was during the Feb event and I used my school’s computer. As I was figuring out the aspects of the game and trying out Exploring, the people behind me saw a ton of straight-up lion porn that I honestly couldn’t have prepared for as I didn’t know it would be in the game :,)



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Astrid┋CLEAN 3.7K
3x Clouded (#124118)

Angelic
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Posted on
2020-04-23 20:33:49
yeah the sex stuff is straight up ridiculous— i'd just like to point out that if, in the roleplaying section, someone said "character gets on top of other character and starts having sex" it would NOT be allowed, and rightfully so! this ISN'T a porn website! but then, why on earth is the site itself allowed to not only say it, but straight up illustrate it?? believe me, i am NOT advocating for sex to be allowed in the role-play section (i don't really spend time there, but still that would be very weird lol, esp with all of the animal rps) but i AM advocating for the site to get its rules straight about what is and is not allowed. the sex/gore area gets very wishy-washy as far as what is and isn't allowed (often ruling that the site can say/do things that the players cannot, if a verdict is even reached), and that is honestly a part of the rules that should NOT have a grey area



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Ninque [HIATUS-ish] (#106221)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 01:21:11
There's no reason for it to not be implemented as toggle on/off option. You can go lazy and place a black square with big "CENSORED" on it and people would be happy. Some people are more sensitive than the others, telling them to "man up" is straight up harassment.
I'm on the fence when it comes to February - on one hand, "animal porn" is weird to look at, but on the other hand animals all around us do that whenever they need. I think the admins should stop giving these images a sexual meaning, as only a few species do it for pleasure.
Keep in mind this game is 16+, not 18+.



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Dier ~ G1 Harlequin
x8 Ros (#80015)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2020-04-24 01:29:29
Clay, I fully understand the original post. Please don’t insult my intelligence by saying that I don’t. What I *am* saying is, not all images that get labelled as NSFW will be triggering for some people, whereas other encounters that aren’t NSFW may be. Furthermore, who is to decide what is and isn’t NSFW for a game such as this.

Thank you for correcting me on the decor thing though, I was not aware of that.

What I am saying is that this is, in my opinion, a poorly thought out idea that doesn’t actually solve the issue, since it’s very narrow minded and doesn’t tackle the problem in full. I see no point in the team spending time doing a half-hearted attempt to cover up things; either it’s done properly, with the ability for people to turn off what triggers them (for example, I would love to not see the hyena image in January as I mentioned) or don’t bother at all.

I’m not here to be torn to shreds, I am explaining why I rejected this suggestion and gave my own constructive criticism as to why I rejected it. I am not contradicting myself if you would understand my comment properly; the team are stretched thin, and I see no point for them to waste their time on a “Half solution”. Either fix the entire problem or why bother at all with this that will still leave many people vulnerable at other times of year and potentially even in standard explore itself.

Potentially my suggestion could even sway some other people rejecting it too, but no, everyone is attacking me for simply having a different opinion. Once again, the fact of the matter is, this site is not cuddly. It is gorey and unpleasant and a sensible solution is needed if people with PTSD (etc) are to be able to play it safely. Without that, no offence, but I don’t think this game is necessarily suitable for someone who is triggered by such things in the current state without the proper changes that is less open minded than just certain events. It is what it is.

Tl;dr — Do this properly, instead of just turning all event gorey/NSFW images off. Allow people to select images/scenes that they don’t want to see. Someone who dislikes or is triggered by an individual image shouldn’t need to block an entire event’s images to not see it and this would allow people to block encounters that would be triggering specifically to them (for example, I recall someone mentioning they hated Apedamak’s (?) encounters for personal reasons). Do it right the first time instead of making a change that would then need further work in the future.



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Edited on 24/04/20 @ 01:41:44 by Dier ~ x5 Rosette ~ x13 Feline (#80015)

aloiria [2.2K g1
uneven] (#168423)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 03:30:15
What I meant by my post is that disabling all images would be better, or even Dier’s idea of being able to select a event’s image (?) to disable it. Different people find different things upsetting or triggering.



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Edited on 24/04/20 @ 03:35:45 by aloiria [2k g1 uneven] (#168423)

Dier ~ G1 Harlequin
x8 Ros (#80015)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2020-04-24 03:34:38
wasn't that my idea, not clay's?



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