Hi, your paragraph is a little confusing so could you please say it in a less convoluted way? I totally support the idea of having inbreeding be more clear on the lion's heritage page (i.e. the entire linage of lion must have no inbreeding to be classified as clean) if that's what you mean?

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@Tonk

Since in the news post shared in the suggestion it especifically mentions that lioden can only check the direct heritage of a lion - that is, until their Great-great-grand parents -, the suggestion is meant for staff to consider inbreeding instances in this ancestry at least. Depending on the lion their lineage can be very convoluted, so I don't think it would be fair to make everyone check aaaall the ancestry manually if they don't want to when this feature only does so much :')

If you can think of a better wording for it please share it and I'll edit it in a heartbeat :'D

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While I appreciate the idea, I'm going to have to say "no support" for the time being.

Digging through heritages isn't as easy as it might seem. A lioness's paternal great-great-great-great-great grandfather might be the same exact lion as that lioness's maternal grandfather, but because that lion wouldn't show up on the same page, it wouldn't count as an instance of inbreeding. In order for this to actually be properly moderated, the heritage system itself would likely need a complete rehaul to account for inbreeding instances across the board. Right now, it only calculates per-page.

As an aside, if someone is advertising their lion as having "no instances of inbreeding" or being "non-inbred" yet it clearly has an inbreeding counter within its heritage, please feel free to report that. Clean breeding isn't an officially-recognised playstyle for the game, and a player cannot be punished for calling an inbred lion "clean"; however, if they refer to their inbred lion as "non-inbred", then it would certainly fall under false advertising.

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@Katze

That's the reason the "at least" is in there, since the feature only checks direct ancestry, and while the overhaul would be amazing I understand it's a lot of work and that not everyone would want it to begin with. And thank you for you input, it's very appreciated! I just thought that, if this were to be added - using something that's already part of the game on top of it - it would help clear the confusion between "inbreeding" and "clean" that is going on nowadays, and sort of force players to be clear to what they're referring to when using one or the other in the Trading Centre, Forum sales and sales chat, thus avoiding a lot of issues.

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I have mixed feelings about this.

One being that newer players don't understand yet. They don't know what clean versus dirty is until they hear about it from older players, and it's confusing.
Punishing them for it seems unfair.

Second being Katze's last point. It's not an official playstyle that's ever been backed up and protected by staff. I agree that it should be, it's frustrating to see players advertise something as clean that's not, but it just seems wasteful of staff's time to me.

There are different versions of clean to people as well. Hardmode, simply inbreeding, and then no inbreeding + no Big 4 lions.
It seems very complicated.

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@Rox

This is not meant to punish anyone for being confused, it is meant to protect players from people that would take advantage from this apparent rule void concerning clean/no inbreeding. As far as I'm aware, no one has ever been punished due to a first offense that is born from an honest mistake If this were to be implemented even during the first moments of confusion it wouldn't anyone would be unjustly punished, I think.

This suggestion was made before Katze explicitly said that someone selling a lion as not inbred when it isn't is reportable. I'm thinking how I can reword the suggestion so it is less convoluted. This is not meant to force all of Lioden to use clean=not inbred, I added the "clean" thing to the suggestion so it was easier to understand what I'm trying to get at but I'm afraid it overcomplicated things instead. (For the record, Hard Mode has nothing to do with "clean" or "no inbreeding", players are allowed to inbreed if they want to - I see this misconception around a lot)

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It's been updated, I'm really sorry for the confusion :'D

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I'm a clean breeder myself. When I first started playing lioden, everyone was talking about "CLEAN" lions. I saw several trades listed as "clean" but I didn't understand it. When I started to understand clean lions had more value, I assumed "clean" was just a short heritage- not inbreeding.

I feel like if something like this is implemented there should be clear and easy to find guides for exactly what clean breeding is- since the reason I assumed a clean heritage was only a short heritage (regardless of inbreeding or not) because I heard word from other players, I know I wasn't the only one confused about the idea.

I joined lioden without any help and learning that was pretty hard- I also assumed people were false advertising a clean lion trade because the heritage had grandparents and no inbreeding. I like this suggestion and I do support- I just hope there can be a guide at some point created specifically for clean breeding and is more easily accessed. I am aware there's guides, but even after the few years of playing lioden I've JUST learned how to search the boards. Even when you type in the key word "clean" or "clean breeding" a guide (posted by Dad) is a little bogged down. New players will not likely find this.

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hm... i support that it should be something reportable, though it would need to be dealt with on a case-by-case circumstance and it should only be relevant to the first page of heritage

however, what reading the comments has made me think is clean-breeders (of which i am one) should simply start advertising their lions as "non-inbred" or "no-inbreeding" or "NI" — that way, should someone attempt to falsely advertise with that wording, they would be able to be reported ^^ im going to start adding that to my clean trades, at the very least ^^

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I see an issue with what is considered "clean". "Non-Inbred", like Katze said, is already protected by rules - if a person advertises a lion as such when it isn't, its lying about the lion traits and already reportable.

I think if the users claimed lions as "Clean Breeders Clan compatible", that would also be reportable if the lion doesnt fit to the group's rules.

However what is just term "clean"? It is not an official term, it is not tied to real-life animal terms (unlike say term "studding" which is used in canine breeding, etc) and it is really up to one's interpretation on what it means? Some people think non-inbred lions "clean", others consider lions without Big 4 in the heritage to be "clean", third group of users may call lions without a brawl marking "clean". I personally might call a lion with only pretty names in heritage "clean" because it makes the heritage neat and pleasant to look at? How to set a solid meaning to the word when "clean" is a very widely used term people may have a ton of different uses for, not necessary tied to inbreeding. How to go about this issue?

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As I said before, I wasn't aware this was protected already - and like me, there are others who weren't either, and who may remain in the dark. If this was clearly stated in the CoC then I'm sure players would use inbred/not-inbred more often, which would help clear the confusion the term "clean" fosters, just like not that long ago the part pertaining false free advertisements were.

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I believe when it comes to Inbreeding I.e having instances of incest in their lineage, it should just show up regardless.

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