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| Posted by | Fix Hyena Hatred and Misconceptions |
 Butch (#206507) Sapphic View Forum Posts  Posted on 2021-01-08 06:44:20 |
Lioden is not only very cruel to an already misunderstood species, but actively perpetuating inaccuracies. Before anyone says "but we're lions!" While it's understandable that lions and hyenas are natural enemies, our lions are capable of empathy even when it doesn't make sense. For example: helping males not native to your pride, not murdering the past king's cubs, taking in loner/abandoned cubs & helping them. We can help dogs, even. And I'd forgotten- we can even help young and dying prey! That's what a lion would want to eat because it's easy! Clarification: The examples above show why Lioden does not need to be realistic on hyena-hate, because it isn't meant for realism. But when it comes to hyenas? Overwhelmingly, Lioden is negative. In the current cub encounter, we either kill them, or hope they die. That's actually what got me thinking about writing this. Why can't we be nice to any hyena? We just barely tolerate Laharu, at least that's what it seems like. There is the single encounter with hyena clans, where we can negotiate. And there's cute cub decor. And my pfp. But there are /far/ more instances of hate. With misconceptions: Hyenas do not yip and howl, they do not bark, they do not live in packs. (They're also not dogs, or cats while we're at it) This is my first January with LD, having just seen the Laharu encounter where he gifts us a skull because he can't eat it: striped hyenas (and all hyenas except aardwolves) are fully capable of eating bone. They chomp it down like it's jerky. It's as if LD sees hyenas as stinky, lazy, worthless versions of dogs, when they are not. There are so few positive portrayals of hyenas, and Lioden can do much better. Or at the very least, allow nicer options for high-karma, kind/good kings, not just the negotiate encounter. We should be able to do more than murder and avoidance! As well as fixing all the behavior inaccuracies, as an animal SIM, we shouldn't be seeing hyenas shown like they're from TLK. EDIT: If no support, please explain why, I'd like to understand your reasoning |
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Juice | G2 Daedal 1.7.22 (#212454) 
Sapphic View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-01-08 07:08:58 |
Why would there be positive portrayals when they're the villains of this storyline? But yeah, I don't like the misconceptions like the bone eating stuff etc. Although later in the storyline they are called clans, so packs is probably just referring to a smaller portion of the clan instead of saying you have to fight an entire clan. Also I have an issue with a thing that you said in your claim of "empathy." If lions killed the cubs of the previous king every time you kinged a new one, that would be unfair. If you spent a lot of GB breeding good cubs and stuff but your king was old and about to be retired the next day, it'd be unfair to have your new king just kill them. Lioden isn't perfectly accurate to real life. You can literally have blue lions.  0 players like this post! Like? |
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Butch (#206507)
Sapphic View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-01-08 07:15:17 |
(#212454) I'm not saying LD needs to be realistic or cubs should be killed.... I was giving examples, like you did, of why LD doesn't need to accurate to reality. Lions hating hyenas is realistic, but it doesn't need to be. That was my entire point! Like I said this is my first Jan storyline, if they're the villains somehow then alright, but there are plenty of regular explore encounters which really just don't make sense to me. And please tell me, how in the /world/ are the hyena cubs we kill (or hope for their death) villains? 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Eldritch g1 rl clone (they/she (#211139) Sapphic View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-01-08 07:20:06 |
hmm yeah maybe they don't need to be 100% realistic but maybe if we could throw in a few encounters where you get good karma for helping a hyena? 0 players like this post! Like? |
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starhyena |Rift Scoundrel| (#220383) Total Chad View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-01-08 08:51:42 |
I'm hugely supportive of more positive hyena encounters. I'm biased to like hyenas obviously but... Hyenas are actually very misrepresented animals in nearly all media, from ancient folklore and mythology to modern depictions, and because of this they are overwhelmingly stigmatized as dirty and unclean. This sentiment has influenced not only the public's opinion of them, but also it's a big problem in the scientific community as well. Because of this overwhelming negative perception of them, researchers are less likely to study them and those that do try to are often discouraged from doing so. Lioden is actually doing a disservice to the species by continuing to represent nearly all of them in a negative light and enforcing this perception of them. There is so much to be studied on these incredibly complex and intelligent animals but the interest simply just isn't there. Lioden has a wonderful platform for furthering animal education but yet in the hyena department it not only falls flat, but in fact renforces negative opinions of them. Did you know that a spotted hyena's intelligence and social complexity is often said to be on par with that of primates? In fact in cooperative problem solving situations they often outperform primates! Hyenas are actually far more adept at solving puzzles that involve teamwork and communication than even species traditionally considered intelligent such as chimpanzees. Yet still in media such as Lioden they're portrayed as simple stupid scavengers (despite the fact that they also hunt and kill 75-80% of their food rather than scavenging). Yes I understand that many of the negative things about hyenas here are because things are shown from a lion's point of view, I get it, but still there could be so much more done that doesn't break immersion. 3 players like this post! Like? |
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Butch (#206507)
Sapphic View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-01-08 09:02:03 |
@ #220383 Thank you so much for your response! I think you worded that all better than I did.. Haha I'm biased too- hyenas are so intelligent, complex, interesting, and adorable! I'm planning on studying them actually they're just... such fascinating animals. Lioden really has done them a disservice. :( 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Lunar Lords (#86479)
Brave View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-01-12 03:08:34 |
I think you should wait another month before proclaiming Lioden is against hyenas. As someone said earlier, they are the villains this month. The rest of the year, most of the hyena encounters are just another foe to fight like any bird or buffalo. And the karma encounters have options. You can spare the lost hyena cub and try to send it back to its clan. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Panthereos ᓚᘏᗢ[FROZEN] (#144907) Sapphic View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-01-12 03:21:55 |
I can agree with what you said about this game being a SIM, some things shouldn't make sense and that's great bc that means that everyone can enjoy playing LD too. I have nothing against hyenas personally. I don't completely understand why it is that almost everyone hates against them. That's what I'm not getting, because, not too long ago there were chats about Laharu being loved by hopefully everyone. Hyena's shouldn't be portrayed as the menace of LIODEN. Oh btw this is January's storyline. They are supposed to be the bad guys. Which is understandable. But Laharu is a good hyena so I don't think LD is hating on hyenas 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 12/01/21 @ 03:23:50 by Panthereos ᓚᘏᗢ (#144907) |
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starhyena |Rift Scoundrel| (#220383) Total Chad View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-01-12 03:21:55 |
The overwhelmingly negative tone towards them is present even in non-event related interactions though? this isn't just a January event related thing. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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A panicked, burning lion (#113568) Resurgent View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-01-14 20:17:32 |
Adding options for more positive interactions with hyenas wouldn't be hard to add to existing encounters. In the March event there is an encounter where you find an orphaned hyena pup, and one of your three options is: "Lions and hyenas don't get along.. But you show mercy to this pup that just lost its parents. You grab it by neck and carry to the closest hyena pack you know of, and leave it nearby. +5 karma +1 impression" So maybe for the January encounter with the group of hyena pups, something similar could be added. Your lion could show them the direction of adult hyenas and it would give you +5 karma and +1 leather beetle. Are there any other specific encounters you have in mind? 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Mwothyman (#138189)
Phoenix View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-01-28 21:34:26 |
I would personally love a more tom and jerry relationship with the hyenas TBH. Like out of jan you (depending on your karma) run into more hyena encounters. a good king would be like "hey! it's the local yeens, seems like things have been going well, you walk up to discuss any issues about prey! +2 impression" while a bad king would get "As your walking, you hear the sounds of the local hyena clan close by. How many times do I have to teach you! You storm over, causing absolute chaos as the yeens run off, terrified of you) 1 player likes this post! Like? |
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+|+ Hidden`Valley +|+ (#209041) Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-02-06 21:11:56 |
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Credius [clean AF] (#228422)
Apocalyptic View Forum Posts Posted on 2021-04-26 21:31:29 |
Technically I can support this...I mean, my opinion's just based on the fact that we can just have a few more positive encounters with hyenas as well. However, I think the image here stems from the Lion King, like how at least two of the enemy lions have a scary resemblance to Scar, it makes more sense if you look at it from that perspective. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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