Posted by OVERHAUL: Verri's Genetics Rehaul/Reorganization

Verridith [g1
stellar/panda] (#407)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2022-02-08 17:45:15
Hi. I'm at it again. I poured more hours into this than I'm willing to admit LOL

This thread is going to be very very long and have a lot of ideas, as well as a TON of images, in it so be prepared for a doozy!

LD Genetics are... awkward at best. You have four basic genetic groups: Black, Cream, Gold, and Red. This is further split into Dark, Medium, and Light. Then we have rarities - Common, Uncommon, Rare, and Special.

Most of this is fine. It sounds like a nice system! Except... it's not.

Examples of this silly weirdness under the spoiler!



What?

Genetics Overhaul!


Okay, sarcasm aside, LD's system is a little bit dated! And there's no shortage of people who think it should change. There are quite a number of genetics rehaul threads, and I've seen dozens of conversations about how it could be done better. Most of the rehaul threads I've read, supported, and chatted about myself. I've played with vague ideas before, but it wasn't until a couple days ago that I got inspired - after watching a conversation on the topic in a Discord server - to actually sit down and think hard on just how a complete overhaul would be done. And not just redone in part - completely, totally, wholeheartedly. My way.

Before I hop into how this might work and ways that groups could be made and bases reorganized, I have some pros and cons that I need to address:

PROS:
- a new, easy to understand system with groupings that make sense visually and logically
- easier to fit new bases into, and much easier to see where color gaps are
- more refined groups make breeding specific colors easier

CONS:
- new system everyone would need to get used to; completely replaces and shuffles the old system
- might be slightly more complex codewise
- some groups will have radically more bases than others until slots can be filled in

New Groupings


I suggest ENTIRELY NEW GROUPINGS to replace the old. There would be four main groups, and then a rarity. The rarities are staying the same!

It would be laid out like this:

NATURAL → CREAM | GOLD | RED → DARK | MEDIUM | LIGHT → SHADED | MIXED | FLAT
UNNATURAL → DIM | PALE | VIVID → DARK | MEDIUM | LIGHT → SHADED | MIXED | FLAT

I also propose that this information be laid out like so:
Base: Dhahabi
Base Group: Natural Special
Genetics: Gold Medium Shaded

Why did I choose this particular way of grouping? I think it meets all needs - that it counts both crazy fantasy bases, and more natural ones well, and allows for an easily understood way to group in future releases. They make sense, they span the spectrum, and they make it so these bases will work in a way that doesn't try the brain for logic! It's also simple and not overly complex.

Base Reorganization


Now THIS is the big section, the area where all of the bases are redrawn into their new little groupings. I'll periodically update this with new bases if I can, and will include stats such as current base count and how many specials/commons/etc are in a particular group, things like that. These will use the wiki's icons, as well, for easy visual reference!

Keep in mind: these WILL be imbalanced. LD will need to work to fill in the color-gaps, and even out the ratios. Why? Because far too many bases were put in genetic groups they were ill-fitted in, and thus we have an imbalance today. At time of writing, I haven't sorted these yet, and I hope the gaps won't be too bad! We have almost 300 bases, so... ;D

Here are all of the bases in alphabetical order. Pretty mixed bag, right?

So, next we have to split up and sort all of those into the new genetic groups, down here. Remember, there are two primaries split into three sets of three, so there's a lot of sorting to be had!

Reorganization will be in the next post down (it would not fit in this post LOL)! It's also on this page for easy viewing.

Reorganization Stats


Some stats on how I've reorganized the bases! Keep in mind that these will be imbalanced, as I've stated before.

NATURALS: 164
Creams: 63
- 5 app, 9 BO, 45 custom/NCL, 4 combo, 0 NCL exclusive

Golds: 65
- 13 app, 18 BO, 28 custom/NCL, 2 combo, 4 NCL exclusive

Reds: 36
- 12 app, 4 BO, 17 custom/NCL, 3 combo, 0 NCL exclusive


UNNATURALS: 120
Dims: 40
- 17 app, 8 BO, 11 custom/NCL, 4 combo, 0 NCL exclusive

Pales: 32
- 14 app, 7 BO, 5 custom/NCL, 6 combo, 0 NCL exclusive

Vivids: 48
- 29 app, 11 BO, 0 custom/NCL, 8 combo, 0 NCL exclusive


TOTAL: 284

Reorganization Logic


Why are the groupings this way? Why are some bases in some groups? Why are there SO MANY CREAMS?

unknown.png

Creams aside, because this (hopefully) makes some sort of reasonable sense. Creams go with creams, golds with golds, unnatural freaky space colors with other unnatural freaky space colors. Similar shades should go with similar shades - and similar gradient styles with similar gradient styles. Now, not everything can match, and that's okay. But this should hopefully be a tad bit better than it was!

An explanation of the groupings:

NATURAL: more naturally-geared colors, ignoring pattern. creams, golds, reds.

UNNATURAL: unnatural colors. bright colors (like purple, blue, and green) along with impossible colors (such as silver, pure-white, and black).

CREAM: self-explanatory; creams, tans, beiges, and browns

GOLD: self-explanatory; golds, yellows, and oranges

RED: self-explanatory; reds, reddish browns, some pinks

DIM: darker unnatural bases; can be anything from black to dark purple, dark grays, anything deeper in color and not fit for the natural groupings

PALE: lighter unnatural bases; can be anything from pure white to silvery blue, light greens, anything lighter in color and not fit for the natural groupings

VIVID: bright, bold, unnatural bases; includes vibrant pinks, purples, blues, greens, and everything in-between

DARK: bases on the darker spectrum

MEDIUM: bases in-between dark and light

LIGHT: bases on the lighter spectrum

SHADED: bases with a lot of gradient, shading, or other extravagant changes from one color or pattern to another

MIXED: bases with some gradient, shading, or other changes from one color to another

FLAT: bases with little to no gradients, shading, or patterns

Base Removal and Combinations


In doing this, I've discovered there are a TON of bases that are... almost identical to each other, save a single shade or a couple of hues. I suggest that some of these bases be thinned, combined, if it's possible in the coding! I know there's another topic that addresses this here, and I fully support it. Several bases that are 99% identical are listed there, please check it out!

Reorganization groupings in the following posts! Thank y'all!



This suggestion has 74 supports and 25 NO supports.



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Edited on 08/02/22 @ 18:11:13 by Verridith [PROJECT] (#407)

Verridith [g1
stellar/panda] (#407)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2022-02-11 18:21:49
Thank you!!

And omg RIGHT? Seer just. bothers the absolute heck out of me every time I see it.



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smileymittens (side) (#230505)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-02-11 18:28:07
lioden is much overdue with a base genetics rehaul



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Kit in a Box
~⚙️~ (#61637)


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Posted on
2022-02-17 09:59:22
I'll agree that the Genetics System needs a rehaul for some bases. But I can't support removing the Black Category completely since my one true love *cough*Ebony*cough* resides there.
It's literally the only category that I like most of the bases in. To have it be completely replaced would be vary jarring.

I can also see a rehaul of this magnitude really messing up peoples current and/or future breeding projects.
And while Natural seems just fine, sans the above reason, Unnatural is still very much confusing, for me at least.

Unfortunately, no support from me. Sorry. :)



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Verridith [g1
stellar/panda] (#407)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2022-02-17 17:27:00
Sorry you feel that way! I actually also adore Black, but if it's any consolation, most of that group was resorted into Unnatural Dim! ^^



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smileymittens (side) (#230505)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-02-17 17:54:18
i think "unnatural" is not the right word (seems like an insult in a way)
i think "iridescent", "variegated", "chromatic" or "synthetic?" are better potential word ideas



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Verridith [g1
stellar/panda] (#407)

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Posted on
2022-02-17 18:34:37
I actually considered Variegated, but Unnatural seemed to fit the best; it balances Natural, makes the most sense logically, and flows better with the base selections! I don't see it as an insult, just a factual observation ^^ My reasoning:

Iridescent sounds great, but doesn't fit; iridescence as a general rule is a shiny effect where colors can be seen in/on other colors, often with a rainbow-like effect. While we have some bases similar to that, definitely not enough to create a whole group out of it!

Variegated is quite fitting, and came up as a synonym for different things I was searching. It could be used, but I elected to put it to the side because it didn't balance quite as well with Natural. Natural/Unnatural has a better ring to it (at least to me!) than Natural/Variegated, though I agree it could be a possibility!

Chromatic would work for some of our bases, but wouldn't work as far as some of the black bases like ebony, noctis, onyx, or the white bases like albino or clear white; they largely have a lack of color, haha! So while we could use Chromatic, we'd also have to add a new group that's the opposite... which, in my line of thinking, would get too complex much too fast. xD

Synthetic I don't think would work at all, because it implies that the bases/colors are fake and are human-made, which would be really jarring for not only LD canon lore (the celestial lions and lionesses, for example, weren't created by man!) but also those of us who build our own pride lore where our lions' colors are not created.

Sorry for the bit of a long post! I had some thoughts to put down.



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ratsofa (FROZEN PM
21960) (#36082)

Savage
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Posted on
2022-02-27 06:30:05
I tossed you a support! For some reason I also had a weird clash with the use of unnatural, even though it makes perfect sense. Maybe it could be “unusual” instead?

it’s so funny, i was looking at the bases wiki page the other day and still can’t believe there are blatantly black bases in the cream category



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Edited on 27/02/22 @ 06:30:28 by Lime (2nd) (#36082)

Verridith [g1
stellar/panda] (#407)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2022-03-01 06:18:35
Gotta add the new bases, will do so some time this week!



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fleuriste (#130338)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2022-03-08 17:18:48
massive support!! bases desperately need reorganization and better placement honestly (like why does every bright and multi coloured & green base get tossed into gold, why is there an obvious black base in cream??)
genetics in game just fail to make sense more and more as new bases are added and it really just needs a good revise



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the one who praises
Orange (#198713)

Spicy
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Posted on
2022-03-27 00:11:10
while I do agree something has to be done, I don't think this is the way. there is just too many groups. I feel like good chunk of issues could be solved if bases are reorganized - like why the f are seer and inpu in creams, put them in black please.....
and that other colour group is added. either some thag will fit all colourful/fantasy ones that can't fit in existing colour groups, which could be mess when we have them all pilled up and it might be disbalanced to other groups, or add more colours - green, pink, blue etc - but that will add a lot of group, and even more OH NO WE NEED TO FILL UP THESE so ehh

idk this is just my quick thinking (basicly, didn't thought a lot on it and I might see it is not good lol) on what I think could solve some issues. adding more and more categories does make sorting things bit easier but will on end make confusion



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Lady Argent
(Clean/StM) (#146403)

Resurgent
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Posted on
2022-04-11 09:41:16
My big issue with trying to make the current categories work is that...they don't. If LD had stuck to absolutely only natural-ish colors (blacks notwithstanding), sure, but as soon as they introduced bases that had any fantastical elements (Arctic always comes to mind), they threw it all off. And then, rather than fix it, they added rarities that - while they were always sort of there in the coding anyway - made it glaringly obvious that some groups are very under-served (looking at you, red lights) and then kept piling on more without addressing the issues.

Ultimately, in order to fix genetics on this site, they really have to pull the entire existing framework down, and while that obviously sucks for us with specific breeding programs (my sunrise breeding has been over 2 years of work), I would rather have the options and fails are something more like this, where everything looks like it belongs together, than have such weird bases shoved in places they do NOT belong. As well as pruning out some bases that no longer really have relevance, like the cream lighter and darker examples. Leaves more room for actually interesting bases to fill those spots without being specials.



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Verridith [g1
stellar/panda] (#407)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2023-06-28 15:48:08
Thank you guys for your support!! I'll try to add in the bases released since this topic went up soon, I'm missing quite a number



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