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| Posted by | -LOCKED - Community Input on Challenge/Paperclip Trades |
 Katze (#3)  
Heavenly View Forum Posts  Posted on 2022-08-12 09:33:32 |
Hi, everyone! As mentioned within August 12th's Community Update news, we are aware that part of the community dislikes challenge/paperclip trades appearing in the Trading Center. One particular topic has had a fair bit of discussion from both sides: * ⚔️TwoSwordsClash⚔️ (#122111), "Outlaw "joke" trades of 1 SB" Our stance has generally been that the Trading Center is a player-run "free market". Part of the reason for this is that you, the players, determine the value that items and other assets hold over time. Players are free to try to sell or trade their assets at whatever value they choose, and other players are free to decide whether or not they accept that value. When it comes to moderating challenge/paperclip trades, the main question is: where do we draw the line? At what value does a trade become more than just a paperclip trade? If an arbitrary value is set, then trades will simply be created at a value just above that. If it becomes a matter of simply disallowing any trades entitled "What can I get for _____?", then we essentially remove open-ended offer-based trades. We understand that a big concern is how they flood the Trading Center and push legitimate trades out of view, though we have never moderated the amount of trades any one player can post at one time, or how many of a certain type of trade can exist at the same time. As you can see, moderating these trades isn't a cut-and-dried solution, much as we wish it were. Potential Solutions * We could add the ability to conveniently and instantly hide trades under the "Recent Trades" and "Search Results" listings for trades, without needing to click to view the actual trade, and without needing to block the trade's creator. An additional "Hidden Trades" section could be added to the Trading Center interface in case a trade is hidden by mistake. * There could be an additional option to "Hide All Trades By This Player", as well. This could act as a "soft block" which only prevents you from seeing certain trades, and still allows you to interact with the trade creator. * We could implement a new Stockpile subforum category for "Challenge Trades", where players would be encouraged to advertise their challenges. Players could then set up private trades if they end up receiving a buyer for their trade, rather than publicly listing their trades in the Trading Center beforehand. The downside of this option is then moderating what does and does not belong within that subforum, needing to cancel/remove any publicly-listed challenge trades, and determining what falls under a challenge trade to begin with. We would ideally like to hear whether or not this is something you think might provide added value for you when using the Trading Center. Additionally, if you have thoughts on other possible (manageable) solutions or suggestions on how this type of system could be improved, we're open to hearing these as well. Keep in mind that any solutions tied to moderation would require hard-set definitions that not all players may see eye to eye on. To further clarify: We want your input on how exactly we rule this type of trade - where is the line? Why isn't my 1 SB trade open for any offers allowed? It's a legitimate trade, I am offering something in exchange for an offer. Why would it be considered begging or a challenge/paperclip trade? What if it was 5 SB instead of 1? 10 instead of 5? Who determines whether I'm asking to trade up by offering 1 SB for a Large Leaf? In order to moderate things like this efficiently, we need a concrete determined set of rules about what constitutes a challenge trade. That's what we need your help with. If we implement the second Trading Center idea that some people are suggesting, how do we determine that a trade in the "regular" Trading Center isn't just a misplaced challenge trade? This is the conundrum we're having. This topic will remain open for two weeks, and will be locked on Friday, August 26th, 2022. Once it is locked, our admin team will review it for potential ideas and solutions. We will post an update on the situation as soon as we are able to work one out, if one can be worked out at all—and if we decide not to pursue these trades, we will announce this as well. |
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🎃 Jen O'Lantern 🎃 (#177530)
View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 16:07:21 |
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Angela |Skyward Queen| (#77401) 
View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 16:36:51 |
I personally think there needs to be an entire separate section for paperclip trades - if we make a forum section for them then that will simply move the spam to another location and still flood out other topics with it. If not a separate section, then some way to filter them out of the trade center. I'm not sure how a filter would work without some way to specify the trade type, however. It really needs to be somewhere that is not involved with legitimate transactions, and not going to clutter the chatter feed. I'd like to have any sort of option that isn't blocking players entirely in order to remove paperclip trades from the TC. My block list is fit to explode now from them, unfortunately. And I'd rather not punish people with a full block just because I don't want to see paperclip trades. Edit: Additionally, for those of us currently just using the "Block" feature to avoid having these trades clogging up the trading center - could we get a way to mass-unblock people in the event that a better solution is found? I'd like to be able to easily trim down my block list, rather than just one at a time. <3  0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 12/08/22 @ 18:30:40 by Angela |Skyward Queen| (#77401) |
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Wonderer (#274794)
Bone Collector View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 16:42:12 |
I get that some people don't like these challenges, but no one is twisting their arms off to click on OR offer on these trades. It's a fun thing for the community and those who enjoys giving something big for something small even just to help a player achieve goals instead of bogarting it all to themselves. What's so wrong with helping people out of kindness or asking what people would give for a certain common item or Lion? When did we all get so wrapped up about what only we want?? I just don't get why some have to be so demanding for it to be forbidden just because it isn't their cup of tea, and yeah, I know there are give away threads for this, but this puts a fun twist on it. THREADS GET BORING!!!! Why be bothered about something that something you are not forced to participate in?????? It doesn't affect your account unless you participate, and that's something you have to do willingly, so what's the big deal with it all???? Let people have fun how they want as long as it isn't affecting others against their will. Don't like the trade?? Move on. Like it? Make an offer! I would understand if it was a misleading trade, like "special mutie hybrid cub" posted for 100gb but it's actually a regular potato cub. That's where we should have problems with a trade and be concerned!!!!! THAT is theft. Asking someone what they would trade for something isn't. And don't even come at me with the "well, what if we misread the information on the trade?", Because it's not anybody's responsibility to make sure you understand , count how many times you hit the 'yes' button when it asks if "you're sure you want to buyout/offer on this trade" box, and double check what you're bidding on. With that being said, I agree with the changes made for vision sensitivities in the sense of epilepsy and other impairments, but trying to force someone to stop trying to make a little extra bang for their buck is down right ridiculous. I'm getting disappointed in our Lioden community, because I remember a time when we all looked out for each other, and now people are trying to groom it to be their personal game. This is ridiculously embarrassing and I'm not sure if I want to stay on a platform where I am gonna be forced to stop (or start) something just because a couple of people don't agree with it. It's not hurting anyone. Period. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, and here it is. 🤷🏽♀️ 0 players like this post! Like? |
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porsef (#312292)
Sweetheart View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 16:48:02 |
I'm a newer player thus don't have a lot of experience on the site. But I've been playing for multiple hours a day, every day, since I've joined and I don't see these paperclip trades often enough to find them a nuisance. My opinion on it is: Leave it unmoderated as is. I might be lucky in not seeing them but it's not a pandemic of spam when I do. Just an odd trade here and there. Otherwise, I support the option of them getting their own sub forum if the influx is that high on a statistical level. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Corruptedhyena (#243378)
View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 17:09:11 |
@Broken Hearts DoMend (#274794) I semi-agree with you. I dont see any reason to ban it at all. I do think that since it is a current trend, there are a lot of them out there, and they clog the tc, but I don't see ANY reason to ban this. It is a challenge just like Breeding projects, just no breeding. It's a market challenge if you will. Now I def do think that they should be put elsewhere besides tc since it clogs, but as of rn, there isn't a place. That is why I am all for a thread category or, as some have been suggesting, a new category in the tc itself. I also don't understand the clogging thing itself. When most people go to tc, they have something specific they arw looking for, therefore they use the filter. Because of this, they don't really see these challenges, and if they do, there aren't a huge amount to where I see it super irritating. For example, when doing these challenges, often they start with a low amount. If you are looking for a hybrid, the basic filters are "lions" and then the "Mutation". Using this filter will eliminate anything that does not contain a hybrid. This is the case with all things. (Ot course, this could just be a me thing and the way I do things). I don't see anyone scrolling through the main tc without filters, which just shows the most recently created/bumped. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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NSH (G1 Goldenrod RLC) (#14870)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 17:19:56 |
That's a good point for the filter tbh. They are already easily filterable if you're looking for something specific on the TC. I'm in there constantly and don't run into them that much 0 players like this post! Like? |
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☘ Helixagonal ☘ (#179815)
View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 17:38:58 |
Obnoxious though they may be, (although i tend to get off light since i don't go browsing, i'll sit there and search everything) it's just not as big a deal as i feel some are making it out to be. it's everywhere, sure, but you can filter things out pretty well already. either of the first two options would be a more practical solution than trying to find a hard line to ban these at, or move it to forums. Double 'and', moderating the forum even if everyone behaved themselves would be another chore that takes constant maintenance, rather than something you can finish and leave Limiting how many trades someone can make fucks with people who are trying to sell stashed breeding items, NCLs, fodder cubs--most of the time buyers aren't looking for trades with 10 cubs at once in it, after all. Only a handful of people can afford to buy 5 lion balls at once. ---the only other alternative i can think of would be (and again i'm no coder) letting yourself exclude words from your search on the front page of trades. but TC isn't a search engine, it shouldn't have to be as in depth as one just because of a trend. leave it to players to curate their own experience, i think. even if nothing gets done, there's still solutions available to individuals already 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 12/08/22 @ 18:21:42 by ☘ Helixagonal ☘ (#179815) |
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CherryJasper (Jasper) (#323772) King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 17:52:55 |
i think softblocks sound like a good idea, since they could also be used in scenarios outside of this one. Ultimately the trades don't really hurt anyone and at most are just annoying though, so if you choose to not do anything about them it would be understandable 0 players like this post! Like? |
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TheRingoZebra (#29166)
King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 18:07:42 |
Honestly making categories would be very difficult because the majority of people have always got different opinions . Best way too go would be the block player trades as it may let one or two of the trades through but the larger spammers could be dealt with by the individual immediately. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Mirenoch (#124397)
View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 18:25:51 |
Right now, in the currency section of the TC, it seems to be about ~ 10 % of trades are paperclip or joke trades. So its enough to be annoying (in my opinion) but not very large issue like a full half are problem trades. For context, I went through all pages of the currency trades, with no filter criteria used, and blocked every user that had a paperclip or joke trade. There were 36 pages of trades total, and after blocking only 31 pages of trades displayed. Average was 2-3 trades per page that were discarded. Granted some of those might have been legitimate trades from the user that then disappeared once I blocked them on the paperclip trades, but if someone is doing a paperclip then I wouldn't want to trade with them in any case. So nothing is lost  Defining what is a legitimate trade is subjective though, and difficult to code for if you are using keywords because... users will figure out "anything with paperclip gets blocked" and will then just not put that word in the trade name, making a filter useless. So I think if these types of paperclip aren't made clear to be against the rules, then just having users manage their own blocklists might be the easiest way to go. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Michael (#16)
Famous View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 19:34:41 |
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pluto 🌌 (#52831)
Bone Collector View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 20:06:11 |
A separate challenge trading subforum or each user being able to block keywords in the TC sounds like a good idea. I'm more partial to the second, since it puts less pressure on the mods and means that people can curate their TC a little more as well. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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[△] Nadir (#108458)
Prophet View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 20:47:08 |
I wanted to offer the potential of exclusion keywords as a field. While this obviously won't work for everything, by adding 'paperclip' to the exclusion field, you would at least remove all trades that contain that word. If you also add exclusion values, that could solve the 1 SB. Input a value, say, 1 SB, and the system excludes any trades offering that value or lower, or excludes trades offering certain items. Potentially this could be a good middle ground? Users can self-moderate their searches, excluding things they don't want to see. To clarify, if you go onto Google and type 'Cyberpunk' you're going to get a lot of results from the 'Cyberpunk 2077' game. But if you put 'Cyberpunk -2077', then the '-2077' will exclude all results including 2077. This sort of exclusion search process lets users narrow results. But having an input box for exclusions specifically will help because it'll be easier for players who don't know about -search term or boolean operators to modify search results. 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 12/08/22 @ 20:49:46 by [△] Nadir (#108458) |
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Michael (#16)
Famous View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 21:18:46 |
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Angela |Skyward Queen| (#77401)
View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 21:24:13 |
@Michael, that may need to be listed somewhere on the TC page so people can find it more readily. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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