Posted by Changes to Pennyroyal

Ellis|G2
Smilus|1.7k|🇵🇸
🍉 (#342202)

Spicy
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2023-02-21 10:21:36
Hi all, 

For those who aren't into breeding primals or primal variations, I'll go over first what pennyroyals are and what they do. 

Pennyroyal is an Oasis-only item costing 1GB. The item description is as follows:

"Give to a stud with the Primal, Primal (Felis), Primal (Ferus), or Primal (Smilus) mutations before breeding to boost the chances that a Primal variation will be produced in their immediate litter. If given to a Primal (Ferus) stud before he breeds to a Primal (Ferus) lioness, the chance of a Primal (Ferus) cub being produced is boosted." 

The Issue with Pennyroyal

My issue is that it can only be bought with GB, which costs real money, without any transparency of how much it actually improves your chances at all. 

For me, any item that costs real money and doesn't have transparency feels... icky to me. To use a pennyroyal, we are are spending 0.50$, without having any information to know if it's worth it for each individual. It's essentially no different than a lootbox in any number of mobile games. 

To summarize, I think all items in the game should fill one of two conditions.

1. Be transparent about how much the item improves your chances.

2. Have the item be obtainable through normal gameplay.

Lioden is usually very transparent about these types of things (which I think is admirable and ethical), even the RMA has a clear breakdown of the percent chances of getting any tier of marking. For other items, like the Lion Scrotum, it clearly states "Give to a mutated lioness before breeding in order to have a 25% chance per cub to pass down her mutation." Other items, like crunchy worm, have a similar level of transparency. 

There are two main solutions that I think would make this situation more ethical.

Option 1: Add Pennyroyal to Other Gameplay Mechanics:

This can be done in any number of ways. 

Prize in the 3500-4000 range in Serengeti Shuffle, like the black stallion, catnip, honeycomb, etc. 
Make it it a fairly rare encounter in explore.
Make it purchasable with sb in Monkey Businesss
Make it purchasable with monkey teeth in the Gorilla Enclave.
Make it purchasable in certain events- maybe the November event as that event already focuses on herbs and the power they have. 
 
Option 2: State how much Pennyroyal Increases Your Chances. 

"Pennyroyal increases your boosts your chances of having a primal varation in your litter by x%" Easy.


I've talked about this in chat before and here are some questions I've had asked. 

"You don't have to buy Pennyroyal with your own money, you can trade for GB!"

There's really no difference between whether I buy 2GB and buy two pennyroyal with it, and whether someone else buys two GB, buys a 2GB cub from me, and I buy two pennyroyal with it. Either way, 2GB is purchased from Lioden, and then removed from the lioden economy for this item. At the end of the day, 2 pennyroyal is worth 1 US Dollar. 1 US Dollar must be spent in order for someone to obtain two pennyroyals.

"Other items like the cotton root bark, GMO cow, and Lion Meat don't state how much they improve your chances!"

I, personally, wouldn't mind if CRB, Lio Meat, and GMO cows did state how much they improve our chances. That being said, I have less of an ethical issue with that because Lio Meat, GMO Cows, and CRB'd-NCLs can be found throughout normal gameplay. Sure, there will be people who spend real-life money in order to get these items, but it's not necessary. Having a percent transparency would be nice though, especially on CRB. 

RNG and luck is just part of the game! 

Yeah, true. Lots of the game *is* essentially gambling with in-game currency. When I bred my first two hybrids, I knew that it could take many heats (and a lot of Yohimbe and Buffy Balls) to get them. Again, things like hybrids or hybrid heats can be purchased through gameplay without spending any real-life money. Regardless, how would you feel if it turned out that you spent 10GB (five us dollars!!) on 10 pennyroyal, and the boost was only 5%? You would be well within your rights to think: "If I knew the boost was only 5%, I would've saved those GBs for something else."

"Don't you want to support Lioden financially?!"

Yeah, I do! I'm in no way upset about the fact that there is an oasis that uses currency bought with real-life money. Other items in the Oasis have transparency about what they do, or how good your chances are (see the random marking applicator chances). If I decide to buy the "Eye Applicator: Lavender" for 1GB, I know what it does: changes a lion's eye color to lavender. If I decide to buy the "Cub Sex Changer", I know what it does.

"I like the randomness of the game/not knowing exactly what my chances are of a primal variation!"

That's fair! I'm not saying that Lioden should release the pass rate of the variations themselves. Just something like: "Pennyroyal increases your chance of getting a primal variation by 25%."


Please let me know what you guys think, and if you like it, let me know which solution you prefer? Or, if you have another idea on how to add pennyroyal into the game, let me know!



This suggestion has 26 supports and 16 NO supports.



Hrt Icon 1 player likes this post! Like?

Duckie (#100740)

Sapphic
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2023-02-21 10:48:03
No support, sorry.

The reason I don't really support this suggestion is because pennyroyal is already pretty transparent about how it works. It isn't upping the mutation chance itself and is instead upping the chance of a different variation showing up if a mutation does occur. If the item did actually increase the mutation chance then I'd probably agree with you that it should be shown.

For the adding into into other parts of the game, I don't see a reason for this either. Pennyroyal is not a high worth item and is available to be purchased throughout the year.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Ellis|G2
Smilus|1.7k|🇵🇸
🍉 (#342202)

Spicy
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2023-02-21 10:50:09
I understand, thank you for your input. My issue is that pennyroyal is transparent about how it works, but not how much it works. I think there's a non-zero chance that if people knew how much pennyroyal actually impacted their chance, they wouldn't want to purchase it.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 21/02/23 @ 10:50:25 by Ellis|G2 Smilus|1.1k|3.9k hs| (#342202)

Myriad [mostly
frozen] (#76)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2023-02-21 11:01:16
Sorry, no support. I don't think it makes sense for staff to release exact percentages for this when they don't for most other items, regardless of how it's obtained. It's the same in more or less every similar game I have played too, that many chance-based items don't have exact numbers revealed.

I also don't think most people are spending real money for 1GB items tbh?? It's certainly not at all necessary - that amount of GB is extremely easy to get by trading with other players. Just by selling everyday amounts of SB/food/toys/lions you can make more than 1GB a day, without spending any $ if you don't want to. Let alone the enormous quantity of GB you can make most months from selling event currency and the like. I don't think it's realistic to look at GB prices of things as USD-only, because Lioden is a particularly easy game to trade for premium currency without ever needing to buy it.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Ellis|G2
Smilus|1.7k|🇵🇸
🍉 (#342202)

Spicy
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2023-02-21 11:15:55
Hi, I sort already addressed this in the original post. Pennyroyal is only available when someone pays Lioden 50 cents. It's kind of a moot point imo whether it's my real-life money, or someone else's money. Pennyroyal can only be purchased with real-life money.

For breeding items, it seems to be pretty mixed. Crunchies state their pass rate, as do lion scrotums; while CRB and GMO do not.

Personally, I don't really care whether or not Lioden went with the "revealing percentage" option or the "make it available through gameplay option". I think either option is more ethical than the current state of things.




Hrt Icon 1 player likes this post! Like?







Memory Used: 633.70 KB - Queries: 2 - Query Time: 0.00101 - Total Time: 0.00523s