Posted by -LOCKED - A strict ban on AI work

πŸ– Miti/Drewble
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Posted on
2024-02-17 00:14:47

READ!

I want to preface this by saying I've taken a good look through Lioden rules, TOS and chatter rules but I haven't found anything about AI. If I missed it and there is a rule against/regulating the use of AI, please tell me and I will delete this post. This is written under my understanding that Lioden has not yet put any rules over AI so if this is not the case, my post is misguided. Thank you.


Warning: Long rant about AI and why its bad (I'm tired now haha)
I've recently seen viral images/videos of AI work that look alarmingly realistic, and I'm terrified. As an artist, I wonder what this could do to my job, to my dreams. The way AI is starting to catch up reflects on AI "art". This is not a post condemning or asking Lioden to sort this issue out because, of course, this has nothing to do with them. But what it is doing, is asking for strict rules around AI.

As I've spent my time on this site, I've seen the lively community of passionate artists, writers, animators and people who are interested in those services. AI threatens that. What if people start to lose interest in real artwork? They start to offer up auctions of AI work?

In terms of morality, AI steals from artists and as a site full of dedicated artists, the site is proudly full of artwork itself, this is betraying all those people who have worked so hard. But even looking through a business lens, AI can destroy the sense of community on the site. Artists leave, commissioners leave, people who just care in general leave.

I know that this is a roleplaying game. I know that the community aspect isn't a core thing, but the community is so integral to the site and I don't think Lioden would be so enjoyable without it.

I'm not asking the Lioden team to focus all their attention and efforts on keeping AI out but at the very least, have a clear rule put in place against it. This will make it easier to ban users who use it. Not only that but it is further re-enforcing the no tracing/stealing art rule given AI is literally formed by the stolen work of artists.

This is not an angry call-out post to Lioden for not having something in place against AI, not at all, AI is only very recent. All this is, is asking the team to make sure artists don't suffer in the long run. My biggest fear is having all my years' worth of building up a name for myself, developing my art through trial and error, caring about improving...lost to a program.


If you do or don't support this, please do tell me why. Everyone's take matters to me.
And as I mentioned at the beginning, this is all written under the idea that Lioden has not put any AI rules in place so if they have, this is not a necessary discussion and I will delete it.



This suggestion has 37 supports and 3 NO supports.



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Edited on 17/02/24 @ 00:34:07 by πŸ– Miti/Drewble πŸ₯© (#420382)

surrelian [side] (#110923)

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Posted on
2024-02-17 00:50:30
I believe the art forum rules cover this mostly? It's used as an umbrella term but their policy "Do not sell art that you didn't create with your own hands." covers AI generated work. I know that they do not tolerate it based on how AI art posts have been handled in the past but I do agree that adding a line in the rules that clearly says "No AI" would help :o



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πŸ– Miti/Drewble
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Posted on
2024-02-17 00:53:54
surrelian [side] (#110923):
I do understand that but a lot of people don't think it falls under stolen work, a lot of people think because they write the prompts; its their work, some don't even know how AI is trained and so on. Plus its similar to how tracing is clearly banned, the clearness of the rule makes it more widely known. So I do definitely get your point but I think there should be a clear "No AI" rule like you also said



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Edited on 17/02/24 @ 00:54:24 by πŸ– Miti/Drewble πŸ₯© (#420382)

Bluebell [10xRos |
20xBO | G1] (#263841)


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Posted on
2024-02-17 01:10:04
Support! I think using AI as a tool with art is alright (loose referencing?), but selling it as your own, or claiming it to be your work, I think crosses the line. Sure, someone has to type in the write prompts which may take time and effort, but it undermines those selling drawn art. The effort to write prompts and actually draw the work are drastically different in how much effort and time it takes.

Some time ago, I made a looking for art post and someone offered, what I think was, AI art. I found this rather disrespectful towards other artists also advertising their work. I didn't do anything about it, other than letting the thread gather dust, as I wasn't aware if their were any rules against selling/offering AI art

I'm rather against the idea of AI being sold in general, as it could undercut the prices of other artists. I may be biased though.



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Edited on 17/02/24 @ 01:29:20 by Bluebee [10xRos | 20xBO | G1] (#263841)

πŸ– Miti/Drewble
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Posted on
2024-02-17 01:12:41
Bluebee [10xRos |20xBO | G1] (#263841):
I don't even think loose referencing should be allowed, it's still contributing to the stolen work of artists. (Not disagreeing with you or anything, just my opinion ofc)



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Bluebell [10xRos |
20xBO | G1] (#263841)


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Posted on
2024-02-17 01:23:47
Gotcha, it's just I've often heard that AI art shouldn't be taken as a threat, but rather used as a tool. Which I'm finding harder to believe nowadays. When it comes to referencing AI art, I was thinking more as a way to find ideas for colour, composition and poses. "Referencing" may not have been the best word choice there.

But then there's the question, how would moderators know if you "referenced" or perhaps even traced AI art? It would make the "no referenceing AI art" a rather difficult rule to enforce.

And yea, I'm certainly not keen on how AI takes the works from other artists. I haven't found any direct examples of it yet myself, but have seen signatures in some AI art on other social platforms.




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πŸ– Miti/Drewble
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Posted on
2024-02-17 01:42:10
Bluebee [10xRos | 20xBO | G1] (#263841):
To answer your question, it's the same as the current rules. Heavily traced or referenced things can be spotted, reported and investigated. Thats how I think the staff should take care of AI-based work (not to be confused with pure AI "art")



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Bluebell [10xRos |
20xBO | G1] (#263841)


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Posted on
2024-02-17 01:51:35
I don't think referencing is against the rules. Though "heavily referenced" may fall under eyeballing I think.

We may have differing opinions on tracing/referencing.
This is the tread I base my opinions of on:
https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429245582

Just wondering, what do you consider to be AI-based work (instead of pure AI)? I'd think of it as traced, or eyeballed copies with the only alterations being perhaps colour, lines and shading.



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πŸ– Miti/Drewble
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Posted on
2024-02-17 01:53:47
Bluebee [10xRos | 20xBO | G1] (#263841):
Sorry I should've phrased that better, I did mean eyeballing!
As for how I define AI-based, I define it the same way you do. Just alterations/addons to AI work.



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Bluebell [10xRos |
20xBO | G1] (#263841)


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Posted on
2024-02-17 01:58:05
Ah gotcha! Words can be a pain sometimes
I'm gonna have a look further into this AI stuff, should probably try and stay on top of it!



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πŸ– Miti/Drewble
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Posted on
2024-02-17 02:00:28
Bluebee [10xRos | 20xBO | G1] (#263841):
That's definitely for the best if you're also browsing for art! I would hate to hear that you or anyone got scammed by AI work..



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Bluebell [10xRos |
20xBO | G1] (#263841)


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Posted on
2024-02-17 02:16:32
Hmm! Apparently AI art can't be copyrighted (can't have copyright protection)? The thing is on lioden (I think) alot of the tracing rules and such are put in place due to copyright infringement laws (and this may not apply to AI art?) and reasons surrelian mentioned. Though in my opinion it should still not be sold as it's, well, infringing copyright on the artists it's stealing from.

It's a bit funky isn't it, with AI art being a relatively new thing, there doesn't seem to be alot of laws around it (comparatively) from what I've seen. Though I'm far from knowledgeable on the matter.



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πŸ– Miti/Drewble
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Posted on
2024-02-17 13:27:18
Bluebee [10xRos | 20xBO | G1] (#263841):
Honestly, I don't trust the laws on AI right now. There's been a lot of situations where AI has been used in horrible ways but the laws haven't caught up enough to say anything on them. It's sad really.



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Anxiety Prime™
[11.25.22 RLC] (#191357)


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Posted on
2024-02-17 13:28:23
You aren't allowed to make, sell, etc, AI work on LioDen! This includes art, writing, etc



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πŸ– Miti/Drewble
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Posted on
2024-02-17 13:29:40
Anxiety Primeβ„’ [CSS COM WIP] (#191357):
That's great to hear! Where is the rule? I must've missed it haha



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Anxiety Prime™
[11.25.22 RLC] (#191357)


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Posted on
2024-02-17 13:33:37
https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429245582&page=1#304445933026


! :D

I've reported AI art before and they said it wasn't allowed, even if you're just using AI "tools" for things like line art and such you aren't allowed!



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