Posted by Figuring out the rosette / how to triple your odds

Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-03-13 12:15:31
***all information in this thread is due to change, i am testing thousands of cubs every day and so unexpected results do happen.


FINDINGS SO FAR:




You have a 1/300 chance to breed ANY random rosette (except shaded, soft, bushveld, or briar)
But if your king has a certain marking, you get a SECOND 1/300 roll for whatever shape that marking is associated with

so essentially, there's a 1/2 chance the random rosette a king pops out is related to no factors whatsoever. But the other half is dictated by some trait. this is evident in every single test, half the rosettes make no sense but the other half follows a strict pattern. That might be what's been to elusive about them, throwing off so many people.


things that give you a second roll:
feline markings(for heavy and inverted heavy)
Mane markings(for shaded)
Unders markings (for soft)

things that REDUCE your chance:
Margay markings (cut your chances somewhere between 1/2 or 1/3)
Margay will override your total boosts to 0.2-0.1% no matter what markings your king has.
---

Short: Even if you do meet the criteria to spawn a certain rosette type, there's a 50% chance the rosette spawned will be unrelated. All inverted rosettes, the original rosette shape, and heavy rosettes can be spawned without any criteria. Example: Your king has a mane marking- half his RR cubs will be shaded rosettes and the other half could be inverted.

Inverted rosettes are completely random- including their shape. You don't have to meet the criteria for a shaded rosette to spawn an inverted shaded rosette.
It is possible to control the color of a RR but it isn't guaranteed. If the feline/mane/unders marking is dark, it will spawn more dark rosettes. If the feline/mane/unders is gold, it will spawn more gold rosettes.

If the parent has a criteria marking, like Lilac Waves, on an unlocked slot like 11, it can still pass a shaded rosette!


Combining all criteria traits will enable you to produce all rosette types with a 0.9% spawn rate.(Feline carries the 0.9% spawn rate, you can combine it with the other shapes to boost your odds)

---
The criteria


Criteria Shaded, Soft, Bushveld, Briar

No Criteria Rosette, All Inverted, Heavy, Most Colors


--

Shaded Requires one parent to have a mane marking

Soft Requires one parent to have a marking with "under" in the name. Includes Lace and Siamese so far.

Bushveld Requires one parent to have a green base, excludes Senegal and Bushveld Shaded

Briar Requires one parent to have a 'white' marking, includes vitiligo. Having one parent with a 'pink' marking may also produce one, though it is more rare,

Heavy Boosted by Feline markings, but can occur randomly

Heavy and heavy inverted can be boosted, but they can show up in any breeding
Shaded MUST have a mane marking
Soft MUST have an unders marking (includes lace)
Bushveld MUST have a green-based parent (Excludes Senegal, excludes shaded bushveld)
Mottled is inherited only of course
Briar MUST have a parent with a white marking or a pink marking. This includes inherently white markings like the BO vitiligos.

Roll order: Random rosettes are the first markings to roll, even able to spawn over gnawrocked markings. If markings had a roll order like mutations did, they would be the hybrid roll. Using ochre powders and leopard tails at the same time is completely safe because of it,
You can only spawn 1 random rosette per cub

Disproved theories:


"Cat-like" markings do not increase your odds. In fact, some lower your odds
Base does not contribute to the rosette's color (excluding bushveld)
Your king doesn't require certain markings to spawn a random rosette in general. A completely markingless pairing can still produce one
Having multiple criteria markings does not increase your odds even more. Lioden only runs a single "true/false" check on whether your king has it or not.
Day vs Night breeding does not impact your chances

Unconfirmed trends



If its possible to dictate the slot of a RR via a marking
If the Unders requirement includes ALL underside related markings or only a select group (it is known that lace can produce soft despite not having unders in the name)


Random Rosette Bugs Found


- Briar/Bushveld shaded rosettes can appear without their criteria being met (likely a bug with criteria transferring to the new shape)
- Senegal is not considered a green-base yet, so it can't spawn Bushveld

Markings that do not affect RRs


- Most listed markings have only been tested once, so some may be added or removed if a second test occurs.
- Lace, mottled vents, siamese, feline unders,

Test 1 - control


 

Test 2 - feline boost


 

Test 3 - Lace boost


  

Test 4 - Onyx boost


 

Test 5 - Unders boost


 

Test 6 - multiple felines


 

Test 7 - Combining Onyx and Feline


 


Test 8 - Testing Unders again


 

Test 9 - Testing Shaded


 

Test 10 - All three



 


Trouble-shooting



Help! I produced a rosette that didn't follow the patterns in the post!

- Please take time to read it again, since there are A LOT of ifs, ands, and buts. Please consider the fact that testing is still underway, we have established a ton of new info but not everything.

Common issues: I produced a shaded rosette without a mane marking parent?
Note: Briar shaded and Bushveld shaded follow different patterns than normal, your rosette is likely one of those colors.

Please do not submit records of rosette cubs, the chance of either an altered parent or tampered rosette are too high for us to use them. We want to keep testing as close to the verifable game mechanics as possible.



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Edited on 18/08/24 @ 09:57:24 by Zaba (#296262)

Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-06-12 12:49:44
Avalin, I would assume not, as two chance boosters don't combine, and the highest booster takes priority. But I will test that soon! Right after the briar criteria check.



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🐸 marrmalade (#38484)

Maneater
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Posted on
2024-06-13 18:25:33
I can confirm after playing with stone a bunch, two of the NCL's that have Under (white) markings have produced heavy /soft shaded rosettes a handful of times in the stone which is really cool!



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Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-07-24 14:10:22
Testing if pink markings can spawn briar. Though it was already tested and failed to produce any, I want to double check that it wasn't just bad odds. I'll be adding feline to amplify the results.
dad: #470316 (slot 10, feline maroon 9)
mom: 794182711999 ( leg spotting strong briar, slot 6)
scrys: 900
RRs: 7
RR 1: Dark Brown Heavy S12 (no criteria)
RR 2: Ginger Rosette S1 (no criteria)
RR 3: Ginger Heavy S10 (no criteria)
RR 4: Doubloon Heavy S1 (no criteria)
RR 5: Briar Heavy S13 (CONFIRMED!)
RR 6: Brown Rosette S10 (no criteria)
RR 7: Noctis Heavy S8 (no criteria

Results: Pink markings do allow you to have a briar rosette cub, albeit with lower chances than a white marking would give you.

Note: There's a few popular theories out there that we haven't directly tested for a few reasons. Namely the "day/night cycle RR boost" and the "base color is tied to RR color" theories. This isn't because we aren't aware of them, but because over our dozens of tests, both have no proof to exist. The RR chances between day and night are roughly the same over each test, and there's been many cubs that share the same base with totally different rosettes.



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Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-08-18 09:55:25
I've got a different kind of test today, something that had to be performed outside of the wardrobe.
There were some questions earlier along the lines of "hey, if my lion has a mane marking in slot 13 or so, can he still make shaded rosette cubs?"
I'm happy to announce that the answer is YES! so long as the marking is unlocked, the cub will be able to get a shaded rosette regardless.
(The cub born to a king with mane marking on slot 11, and mom with no mane marking) https://www.lioden.com/lion.php?id=794226151756)
I tested this with my own kings, since the wardrobe functions poorly with hidden markings.



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Alumbian (#484628)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2024-08-22 08:48:40
Would you mind if I included this thread in my Clan, Roaring Excel-lence as a data resource?



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Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-08-22 15:33:21
Alumbian, that would be lovely! Go right ahead



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Somebody (#368859)


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Posted on
2024-08-25 17:08:50
This is so interesting! Makes sense now that I think about rosettes and previous Kings!



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🌠Rowan
{he/they}🍃🌸 (#205575)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2024-08-28 09:39:35
hey there! my queen is a tri rose so id like to contribute some data! it seems like her briar rosette is the rose that likes to pass the most from what ive seen so far. i believe her mottled and onyx have only passed once each



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Werona (#462126)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2024-08-29 09:00:12
Hello! My Queen produced only 2 random rosettes, both were bone inverted shaded rosette (here's one of the cubs - https://www.lioden.com/lion.php?id=794225740902 another one was killed probably). That might be from lace marking she has.



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🍋 lemon 🍋 (#459525)

Maneater
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Posted on
2024-08-29 17:35:41
What alot of money and boredom will do to you



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LacyD Ice TriRosette
Ferus G2 (#453878)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2024-10-16 23:42:33
You say mane marking can contribute? What are mane markings? Sorry I'm still kind of new



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Zaba (#296262)

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Posted on
2024-10-18 08:14:40
LacyD, mane markings are a genre of marking. Both female and male lions can have mane markings, but they're only visible on adult males. Includes shapes like waves, crest, back smooth, tips, and ringed.



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LacyD Ice TriRosette
Ferus G2 (#453878)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2024-10-18 11:09:24
Thank you



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