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| Posted by | crack down on fanart usage |
 123heaven (#108477) Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts  Posted on 2024-07-25 10:36:37 |
Hi! I'm not entirely sure how to word this yet, so this topic might have small grammatical/wording suggestions from time to time; the essence of it will remain the same, however! This is something that has been bothering me for a while. Over the past years, I have seen a LOT of fanworks (specifically fanart) created by off-site artists being utilized in various ways here, stemming from just icons to entire css layouts. I myself am currently at the time of writing using a piece of fanart as my icon as well, albeit mine is properly credited in my den. However, the difference that I have seen a lot is that a lot of Lioden players absolutely do not check in whether the artists whose art they are using are at all okay with their art being used -- and very often their artwork is being used without credit or permission. I think that this might stem from the fact that Western fandoms differ a lot from Asian fandoms; as it is seen as usual within most Asian fandoms that artwork is not to be used without granted permission and added credit. I find it most concerning that users on here create CSS layouts, whether for "free" usage or for commercial, commissioned usage wherein artwork drawn by fanartists of specific fandoms is frequently used without having asked the artists beforehand whether they are comfortable with this at all, and even not crediting. I do not think it is fair to profit off the hard work of other people by using their art to make yourself money- no matter if that money is in-game credits or real life money. Not to mention -- within the adopt & art side of Lioden (think YCH/bases), one is not allowed to use bases/lineart/etc without having permission from said artist. Which is why I propose that Lioden will either start cracking down on this issue or entirely forbid fanwork from being used in CSS layouts primarily, or at least start cracking down on users who use fanwork without credit or permission in the first place. I feel like this suggestion may not be enjoyed by a lot of people, but it is better to start cracking down on this before artists will audibly start speaking out against Lioden and cause legal issues. editing to add on to this that yes, the usage of artwork without permission can and will lead to legal issues that will be very unfortunate for lioden! and in addition, using artwork without credit nor permission is very much modbox-able, meaning that CSS layouts can be requested to be taken down along with receiving a demand to change your icon in case it is found out the artist forbids the usage of it. user add-ons! Az [G1 Incense 3/31/23 NRLC] (#120781) "Personally, when thinking of stolen art, my first thought goes to the art sales threads and not css, so mods should specify that css can in fact use stolen art and bring attention to that" |
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123heaven (#108477)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 11:53:48 |
Commenting to add on in case people aren't reading --- guys this is something you can get reported for and asked to remove  Clicking "no support" has little to no use as art theft is forbidden on Lioden and if someone feels like reporting it'll get removed :^D. This suggestion is made in hopes of spurring moderators on to actively tackle this rather than only do so if someone cares to report. This is a heavy legal issue :x 1 player likes this post! Like? |
Mad Hyena (#29080)
Necromancer View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:01:12 |
No support because it would add a HUGE workload to already busy moderators.  CSS are different from lineart usage in adoptables in that when a new topic is made in Adopts, Mods can see it and check it - but Moderators cannot possibly recieve a notification whenever somebody ever modifies their CSS, or simply adds a new bit of text to the Den description... such "CSS police" will double+ the amount of work Moderators have to do, so I dont see it as a good thing to "send them to tackle" this issue. After all Lioden is very open to complaints from rights owners - if someone is unhappy their art is used in CSS, they can report and it will be removed. Nobody skips reaching out for site to remove the copyrighted material before going to the court - every rights owner first tries to contact and get it removed without having to spend money on suing. Its not free to initiate a legal process, you know! The vast majority of copyright owners try to solve it for free first, and only if the site admins do not cooperate and dont remove the copyrighted material, then they go to pay out of their pocket to start a legal stuff. So I dont think its THAT big a problem, and if you see something copyrighted on someone's CSS that's not allowed to be used - do report it, copyright rules are already in place and it will be removed if its reported. But I dont believe Mods should be the ones tracking those instances down, that's up to users! 1 player likes this post! Like?Edited on 25/07/24 @ 12:05:40 by Mad Hyena (#29080) |
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123heaven (#108477)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:05:00 |
Guess I'll return to mass-reporting again  I fail to comprehend your point of how it would add a supposedly huge workload to moderators as modbox reports regarding this issue will be made regardless. Cracking down on this and being more vocal about the rule would in fact lessen the amount of these situations occurring as it would lead to users being more aware that using fanwork without permission to make a profit of it is heavily against the rules along with being a legal issue. By stating that it will worsen the workload but advising me to report it if it bothers me is rather contradictory, I'm afraid  but I fear that the way in which Western fandom treats artists will forever disappoint me  1 player likes this post! Like? |
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Mad Hyena (#29080)
Necromancer View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:09:39 |
Checking every user's Den versus just checking the one in the report are dramatically different amounts of work! Its not contradictory at all. To illustrate. Try thinking like a Moderator for a moment. There are 3007 users online right now, can you go to each of their Dens and check if their den CSS violates copyrights? Open 3007 pages and even IF there is an art on the CSS, how would you tell if its allowed or not allowed to be used by the creator? You would have to carefully examine EACH page for credit, and if there's none, go to look up the original art's owner to see if there's a violation... OR would you rather have to open 2 Modbox tickets and check specific Dens users have pointed out to? Check 3007 Dens and do all the research yourself, or check 2-3 specific Dens users have reported in a ticket. Dramatically different amounts of work! And that's just the Dens, while there's also Cave CSS, and Branch CSS  Having Mods to chase down ALL CSS to manually check it if its breaking copyright, WHOA. I cannot imagine Mods will ever get time to do anything else. It cannot be compared to just processing few specific, pointed out instances of copyright violation. 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 25/07/24 @ 12:14:36 by Mad Hyena (#29080) |
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Az [G1 Incense 3/31/23 NRLC] (#120781) Hateful View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:18:25 |
from what i understand, they arent saying to have mods check every single den (dunno where you got that from). in fact, they said specifically: "Cracking down on this and being more vocal about the rule..." so, unless my reading comprehension is absolute dog, your points are completely moot because they in no way state that mods should be looking in every single den. do you think they look through every single art thread to make sure everything is credited properly? no, but it is very clear that it should be credited. and yes, people can report. people should report! but it should be deterred in the first place by mods stating very clearly, that such rules apply to dens as well, and if reported, will be considered stealing art. so, in conclusion: Op just wants the rule to be stated more clearly/edited to include certain fanwork op, please correct me if I'm wrong :) 2 players like this post! Like? |
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123heaven (#108477)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:23:34 |
I cannot help like feel that that is a very unfair and condescending overestimation wherein you are failing to admit the primary issue that I have addressed in my suggestion, being the commercial usage of fanart in CSS. There is no need for visiting those 3007 users' dens which you mention in your message, but it is way, way easier to tackle the issue by its root. Most older CSS that were utilised by users on-site are either out-of-order due to Discord and Imgur's recent failures in being a proper image host, thus leaving many backgrounds and css non-working. Instead of having to check these, again, 3007 users, it is way easier to go on the specific forum made for posting CSS layouts and take a gander at the active boards on there. Many of them utilise fanart that is not used with permission. I do thank you for your input and will make sure to report instances of this more frequently to modmail. Aside from that ... yet again, I did not tell moderators to visit every den. I fail to see where you have gotten that conclusion from, as highlighting a rule does not mean that a moderator should pursue their own version of the available adventures on-site where instead of "spreading the word" or "spotting jaguars" they should "spot stolen art".  In addition -- I feel like it might be easier for you if you were to take your time in typing your responses rather than having to edit them to add on mentions after you've sent it, as it leads to difficulties for me to answer your comments as you keep adding on to them I additionally think that this is a "weird hill to die on", as used frequently in slang. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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123heaven (#108477)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:24:01 |
And yes!! I fully agree with Az'. That is primarily what I was aiming at. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Mad Hyena (#29080)
Necromancer View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:24:05 |
That is what I understand under "Cracking down", because simply being more vocal about the rule but not taking any Moderator actions will have, no effect really?  Simply reminding about the rule that is already in place I dont think will have much of an effect. It already is against the rules to use someone else's art without permission. The best effect? Report, dont ignore, and that's how YOU, users, can already "crack down" on it. 1 player likes this post! Like? |
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Az [G1 Incense 3/31/23 NRLC] (#120781) Hateful View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:39:23 |
I think then, if you’d like for them to look at threads, it should be encouraged for users to report if they notice stolen arts in threads, as opposed to mods searching for it themselves. The users can search and report all they want! But like mad hyena said, it’s easier to deal with the few reports that they have instead of going on a sort of witch hunt themselves if that makes sense. Personally, when thinking of stolen art, my first thought goes to the art sales threads and not css, so mods should specify that css can in fact use stolen art and bring attention to that 1 player likes this post! Like? |
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123heaven (#108477)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:42:07 |
^^ I think that is a very good take on it, Az! Would you be alright with it if I added the latter part of your message (the part from "Personally ..." to "to that") to the suggestion under user-addons :0? 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Az [G1 Incense 3/31/23 NRLC] (#120781) Hateful View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:42:32 |
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123heaven (#108477)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-25 12:43:08 |
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