Posted by A need sensei!

Morphyk (#234445)

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Posted on
2024-11-15 13:25:56
Hello everyone,

I've recently returned to Lioden and to say the least, a lot has changed since I left.
However, I wasn't as interested in the game as I am now and I still have a lot of questions.

I've already looked into it on the wiki, so as not to bother anyone who might be able to help me, but some questions remain unanswered.
I'm an adult gamer, with all the maturity that implies.

I'm not looking for SB or GB.
Maybe I'd like to have lionesses with mutations (provided I like them, of course, I'm not going to jump at the first mutation xD ) but I'll never beg.

For clarification, I use a translator so if we go through discord I may be a little long to respond. But I'm a quick learner.
I hope someone will take me under their wing!
See you soon and thanks.



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⁎ Rah (#156300)

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Posted on
2024-11-15 13:56:57
I'd be happy to try to answer any questions you have ^^

Welcome back to the game!



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Morphyk (#234445)

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Posted on
2024-11-15 14:21:17
⁎ Rah (#156300),
Thank you very much for your welcome and your proposition n.n

So...
First of all, I have a few questions about our king.

I - I'd like to know from which king onwards it's relevant to start unlocking markings, to put applicators on him too? I currently have a level 9 king, with only 189 stats. I have no heir to come...

II - I've seen that there are applicators that “unlock” markings. But how does this work? Do you choose the marking, its location, its opacity...?

III - I'm currently focusing on newly acquired lionesses through exploration, but is it really useful? Or is it better to buy them at the trading center?

IV - I'd like to buy some accessories, but I'm not sure how much they're worth... Would it be better for me to post a topic with my research or to look directly at the trading center?

V - I've been interested in the term “clean” as far as lions are concerned and have been able to learn about the existence of the Big Four. On the one hand, I'd like to make a line of “clean” kings, but I'm afraid I'll be empty-handed if I want to raise the stats. On the other hand, I've seen that it's still something quite present, even important for the players.

That's about all I can think of right now!
Already, if you have the patience to answer me, I'll thank you enormously!



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⁎ Rah (#156300)

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Posted on
2024-11-15 17:03:19
Absolutely! <3

(I'm sorry for the delay, I always seem to be called away when I think I will have time to sit and answer right away. ^^' )

I. This may feel like a non-answer, but it very much depends on your goals & what you want out of the game. I understand perhaps that is part of what you seek guidance over, so perhaps I and others can give you suggestions/ideas so you may choose what resonates most with you. Whether you decide to unlock hidden markings depends on
- Whether you want to have to unlock hidden markings on any cubs who inherit the marks, constantly (So: Maybe more relevant for higher budget)
- Whether they will add value to your play-style- do you want to make 20-marking lionesses?
Or would hidden markings not help you enjoy game more?
Random markings can appear in slots higher than 10 in any breeding, usually these are random rosettes- would you want to reveal those, or does it depend whether they are Inverted or normal/heavy/soft Rosettes?
Explore the markings wiki to help you get a feel of which you like :D
- Whether you like the look of the applicator enough to justify spending its value towards application on lion you're considering, instead of using the value from storing for later (for use on some other lion) or selling the applicator itself (now or in future) to grow your Lioden (group of lions=) pride.

Applicators are lovely to make designs more cohesive and improve/gear a particular lion towards your chosen aesthetic. However there are entire breeding styles in game (You would or have encountered the term Breed Only) that don't use applicators at all or except on a 'finished' product, who do not apply traits that can be had at any time because they see more value in breeding only for things that can only be bred for.
I would try to focus on a mixture of what makes you happy & sometimes branching out into what will do well, on the side, as it's hard to be happy in game when you can't afford to do what you wish. :D
Ultimately we choose to spend our time here & so there's no point if you are not enjoying the process, whether it's whatever challenge you have set for yourself or how you value/see the pixels on your screen.

Your current main lion is handsome- I notice you have studding off. (Edit: This, too, is a game choice that can be made. However, it can be a helpful income stream on game- many choose not to stud at all, it all depends on what you want out of the game and what will make you happiest with your time spent here.)

II. Different marking applicators will allow you to apply a chosen marking in a specific slot, some at a specific opacity and some to be changed later- it depends! If you can share which specifically, it can be found in Wiki or item catalogue information.
So applicator will 'allow' a marking, not truly 'unlock' such as for hidden markings- you can apply as long as you have applicator on any slot you have unlocked for that lion. When a slot is unlocked for marking by pressing appropriate text to 'reveal' it, it will unlock ability to display hidden markings the lion was born with- and thus unlock their ability to pass on that hidden marking, as unrevealed hidden markings do not pass to cubs; but, you will have to unlock the marking on any cubs that inherit it as well.
Perhaps specific example would help?

III. This depends on playstyle! Claiming lionesses in explore are useful for building your Main lion's 'Impression', which can help you achieve better lionesses (Claiming lionesses chased by other players, or lionesses already in heat and with special potential mutation-causing boost applied (cotton root bark)) - they can Hunt for you, so you can earn food to use or sell, and work your way towards better pride.
(Edit: If you're not sure what you want yet, it can be a good place to start, especially if you're not sure what the objective value would be of lionesses you would be interested in.
Whether you see them as training ground or choose to keep them long-term is entirely up to you and your eventual niche playstyle. Some experienced players deal only in G1, some choose to keep long heritage going for personal joy, others buy expensive lions only to find out someone else sells them for much more/less, some overbuy before they can handle too many and find they have to increase/decrease pride size through time to adapt to their different time commitment to this game- it all depends!)
Some players do "Hard Mode" playstyle and only work with gen 1 / G1 / Heritageless lionesses they claim from explore, keeping only single generation of cubs; others used Chased lionesses to build traits in their pride while keeping low heritage; others only buy from Trading Center, as the traits they want are uncommonly chased voluntarily and can't be found on normal newly-claimed-lionesses.

IV. Accessories, when researching : first look in Item Catalogue &/or Wiki to determine where it comes from. Then, you can see easily it's normal cost (whether in Event, Gorilla Enclave, Oasis, etc.) and if it is determined by players (for many items that do not have a set cost and depend solely on what players are willing to buy/sell for). Then, Check on Branches and Trading Center to see current available listings.
After you have some understanding of its normal built-in cost & availability, you can apply for or ask for price check if you are still uncertain- but it's always a good idea to at least try to anchor your knowledge with real evidence 'at current time, as best as you can tell/see', not just one person's opinion.
Sometimes it can be hard to tell, especially with rare items or items that appear by random chance, and even still harder for players to be objective about their experience vs. present reality of the game.
So always multiple sources & observe ^^ <3

(Editing later: I missed this part on first read-through of question as I interpreted it differently & more basic, but to answer the last part in some form: If you wish to post a topic with your research, you may find others to share some key points and perhaps data you were missing from time. This can be quite valuable, though it also can become a touchstone for others to base their prices off of and influence pricing in the future so I try to be quite objective when doing so (myself). This can be good, if objective, but sometimes I personally wonder how many well-meaning posts become quoted out of context and later yield unexpected results. Personal paranoia, everyone has their own learned idea of worth so it can be strange to see large fluctuations start to trickle influence into the market that seem to originate from particular number gathering or quoting ... have you seen this too? more data is always better, so if I answer a pricing question you'll see me usually include a range of values, expected sale time, and only quoting actual confirmed sales while referencing the range at the time of sale including a real-event anchor timeframe or common phrase ('out of season', 'in season'; 'lowest branch prices', 'listing' vs. 'confirmed sale') instead of just listed prices or a number without context unless it is static with no change.
I am referring mostly to in-season vs. out-of-season values of breeding items available in specific events throughout the years. Over time, the value in-season and out-of-season has gotten closer together, so value rises less out of season and items cost more when they are available in the shop.

Some items, though, are static price and not influenced by rise and fall in demand and changing player base.
For example, Aging Stone is set at 2 GB in Oasis (ages to 1yr. Then from 1yr to 1yr11mo Aging Crystal is 500sb in Monkey Business & will complete the aging process) & always available there: the value of Aging Stone to me will always be quoted as 2 GB, flat, set by the game itself, even though listings may vary from 1-2gb up to 6-10gb when players try to earn more for nothing or take advantage. In that particular instance, I would argue that listings should not be referenced or quoted as an indication of worth as any sales are mostly taking advantage of a fluke in someone's memory. This is where bearing in mind the source of the item itself, step 1 to researching cost, and even easier than some items only available through in-game games or limited events, becomes important to understanding the context of the listings you are seeing.)

For items available in current Event shop, you can check what players are buying and selling for in forums, but try to anchor cost of decor in cost of popular breeding items or applicators if possible and do not sell for much less than appropriate value. Players make looking for trades at a fraction of what the cost of Event currency would be if you bought breeding items for that amount of event currency, and some decors are more/less popular.
If buying for own desire, try to get best price but feel free to spend freely to make yourself happy!
After all, no point in stressing over currency/profit unless this is what you desire, though I believe it doesn't make anyone feel good to find out later they could have made different decisions to afford much better outcome, whether game or life, so perhaps some consideration is prudent rather than pure impulsivity. ?

V. For "Clean" and stats, there is slightly different standard-
so, if you like clean, you can still do stats + Clean but it will look slightly different :D Different scale, because it is harder to breed such high stat without inbreeding since it requires many more super high stat lions similar 'big four'.

Clean, heritageless, stats?: I train Groupies (Heritageless, Gen1, G1) Male Adolescent Groupies from May event to adulthood and old-age (lions age down to 8 years old when kinged above 10years1month old, or up to 3 years when kinged below 3 years old ; lions can therefore be trained as Submale Patrolling until 14 years 11 months old and kinged before their 15th birthday/rollover for maximum stat gain from patrolling as that is when chance of death starts for non-Kinged lions) for stats, and a High Stat groupie can be 4k+ for some (maybe... 5k, 6k-8k+ for truly high stat large investment ? Very rare! <3)
Most players will be able to reach 1k by the time a groupie is 14; less 2k+, but still achievable by many; some few, 3k-4k; even less, 5k+
It is exceedingly rare to see anything higher for sale as it will typically be someone's passion project with significant real-world time and resources investment,
anything higher than this (and even this depending on time to patrol investment) requires additional GB/sb investment in stat foods, special toy items, etc. and there is complex guides in forums and even guilds to support/cheer each other on.
That is just to start; then there is stats after Kinging, which can be a whole other challenge. ^^
But you can see how if it's possible to breed a cub with 4k-7k+ stats, 'not' clean playstyle will be a completely different range of stats for what is considered 'high stat' for lions with heritage. (Both, players opinions & what the Game calls higher stat range in May Challenger event (which is same for any/both breeding styles, so technically anything above or super-high range and any labels attached to these lions are mostly for in-game prestige/personal satisfaction/bragging rights if any not any tangible in-game effect).
I am not trying to sway you for any play style, only sharing what I do/know: It is possible to be both Clean (no big 4), no inbreeding, low-gen, and 'High Stat' (depending on threshold you wish to reach & what is possible with your unique gameplay restrictions like maximum stats possible in a lion's lifetime giving X starting range, depending further on what others are willing to invest/achieve and further still what is common).
There are examples of Clean, Gen1, Heritageless, Kings that do very well in studding & cub sales, but they typically are saved for combination with looks as well because if numbers is all one cares for it is easy to be tempted by much higher numbers possible with inbreeding.
Right now, I have low-stat main lion while I breed for looks improvement & train groupie on the side, though I had 4.7k Main Lion not long ago while I tried to work for both (before I chose to make some improvement to look that can only be bred on & keep clean heritage while going so paid to early retire because it would make me happier ^^ ) - both kings are getting the same amount of studs, just from different players.

Please let me know if I was distracted by too broad a summary of some points, and missed your question entirely: I see that you are returning player expressing interest in a few things you may have more knowledge about than your question would at most basic form answer but I responded to the questions as written in my interpretation today so perhaps something will need to be said or repeated for clarity.

Perhaps I am too wordy or not wordy enough; I will end for now here, please feel free to ask any clarifying questions, and I hope others will chime in with their opinions as well! ^^



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Edited on 15/11/24 @ 18:10:33 by ⁎ Rah (#156300)

Morphyk (#234445)

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Posted on
2024-11-16 01:55:20
I understand XD As for me, I slept in, so forgive me for replying a few hours later!
Thank you so much for your answers, they really helped me.

I didn't think it would be possible to appreciate my current lion and offer him for breeding. Well... When in doubt, I offered him at a low price for the time being. I used applicators to modify his base and markings to get a nice lion xD He clearly didn't look like that XDDD
Ideally, I'd like to breed future heirs only with my current king. To have only future kings from my initial lion while gradually increasing the stats ( that I'm really proud of XD ).
In another game, I had invested in stats. I made it into the top 100, a challenge I enjoyed immensely.
But what frustrates me a little is that I really like the “Primal” lions. One of my subordinate males (both of them, in fact) are of this species, but they're not sons of my king. So I hesitated to make Fatality my king, but I'd be disappointed for the reason I cited above.

Besides, my other question would be;
My current king only has four unlocked markings at the moment ( 1, 2, 3 & 4 ). If I reproduce him with a lioness who has different numbers of markings, will that unlock more or will I just have a “mix” of unlocked slots on the cubs?

Thanks again for all your answers <3

Edit: Ah yes I have a question, again XD
If I change my lion right now. His level goes back to 0 if I understand correctly. But then... Will exploration zones be blocked again?



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Edited on 16/11/24 @ 02:03:42 by Morphyk (#234445)

⁎ Rah (#156300)

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Posted on
2024-11-16 05:31:34
Absolutely!

I find that sometimes low requests mean more so that the players who might've been interested were perhaps not around at the time.
Some have a goal of selling out every week, and they can accomplish that quickest with being social & having some form of particular aesthetic/vibe/mood. There are many projects/playstyle/goals going around all the time, so you never know who might match. ^^

Congratulations, i'm glad you've experience in some aspect of gameplay you enjoy! 8D <3

Would you want to have only the Lineage related to your Original King, or the entire looks/mutation of the heir bred from his line?
It's possible to keep an heir as a 'lineage keeper' of sorts, and apply basic Primal mutation with the mut-causing item if you don't only desire to have the breed-only Primal variants.
Alternatively, a focus on the females could help your personal line create better / different / variety of offspring for you to choose from.
For this goal, may I suggest focusing on incorporating Chased NCL at first with mut application so the visual balance of the Heritage page sways towards your Male line?
If that doesn't bother or matter to you, then any cool females would help - of course :D <3

Ah, "Unlock" in this game means available marking slots to be filled.
In this sense, your King has 10 marking slots unlocked (you can see the number in his Appearance, at the bottom left when facing screen as "Marking Slots 10".
For this first 10 markings all lions automatically have 'unlocked', only the marking slots that are filled appear under the Markings side (along right when facing screen).
So, he has 4 marking slots out of 10 slots available filled; he has 10 marking slots unlocked.

When bred to another female with 10 slots available, of which some random combination are filled, they will have a mixture of both markings. This is a variable anywhere from 0-max. Lions with more markings will tend to have cubs with more markings on average. 'Matching' marking slots where both parents have a marking in the same slot will pass at slightly higher rates, and there are items available to increase/boost these passrates slightly further (Ochre Powder for passing non-rosettes, Leopard's Tail to try to help a random rosette be born, & then to guarantee max 2 markings on all cubs per litter with very valuable Ochre Gnawrock) once you get to a stage where it would be appropriate to invest (for example, cost of lion or value to you would outpace cost and value of the item on its own).
A lion with unlocked hidden markings (slots passed 10) will have a chance of passing those markings to any cub - and, any lion who matches unknown/guessed-criteria has a chance of throwing a hidden marking as a random rosette- but, as you touched on, you will still have to pay to reveal (officially 'unlock' term) those markings on any cubs that have hidden marks. The hidden slots above 10 can be filled but will remain unrevealed without further cost, unlike the first 10 slots which will show & appear automatically at creation (birth, custom lion creation, generation of random ncl or raffle lioness, &etc).
You can only purposefully fill slots past 10 on lions with those slots unlocked, after which they will function as normal (have a chance at passing to cubs but any cub will need to have as many slots past 10 unlocked to reveal the slot that was passed- Example, lioness with 15 slots unlocked & a marking in slot 13 passes slot 13 to a cob born with 10 slots unlocked and a hidden marking in slot 13- you would have to unlock slots 11, 12, and 13 for that marking to be heritable by that s13-cub's future cubs, otherwise it will just be unlocked normal 10 slot+random chance for random-rose genetic if applicable potential.)

For now, if you wish, you can get a feel of what you would want to pass & perhaps combinations of different markings or what slot ranges you wish to focus on.
Can elaborate marking pass theory on request

Every new King will have reset level, impression (back to 0 level), and whichever traits are 'forced' (Heritage & Stats of heir, Mutation status of the most recent kinged lion id, & looks of the male you chose to keep looks for)
Yes, we do have to unlock each new zone of explore by levelling our new King again- there are items that give experience to speed this process if you wish, such as Giant Tortoise (later worth 1:2GB+) available in this months' shop, but levelling up to at least zone 5-6 is usually fairly fast in a few days' energy bars. With battling and interacting with all/most opportunities the game gives me from each step, I sometimes get to level 2 within 1 energy bar depending on what I encounter in explore. :D

Thank you for sharing questions, it's interesting to see things from another view! <3







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Edited on 16/11/24 @ 05:57:19 by ⁎ Rah (#156300)

Morphyk (#234445)

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Posted on
2024-11-16 09:24:07
Thank you for all these answers!
I'm slowly beginning to figure out how to search for items and compare their prices.

And it's funny, just before you told me about it I was looking at “chased” NCLs because I didn't understand the term xD But then I did some research and found that I'd already gotten some without even knowing it!
Part of me already wants to use a marker applicator on my king and the other part doesn't :')

If I have any more questions, I'll get back to you if you don't mind!
And if my insight has made you see certain other aspects, I'm glad!



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⁎ Rah (#156300)

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Posted on
2024-11-16 09:30:21
Sounds lovely, i'm glad you're exploring how best to enjoy your time here!
Sure thing :D <3



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