Posted by Unwanted overflow cubs and what to do with them
WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:03:16
Well, we're all seeing what's been going on lately - The game is way overflooded with excess cubs that are getting cheaper by teh dozen and in the end, only clutter the game for no good reason at all.

Now, on one hand, there are those players who are complaining their custom studs' cubs can't sell for big buck any more. Personally, I don't care - this is not a lion selling game so... tough luck.

On the other hand are those who, like me, would like to push for realism and would like to see the overflow of breedings and excess cubs done away with for those reasons alone. Those in the 'selling camp' can jsut as well tell the 'realistic' camp the same thing - Tough luck.

And then, of course, are those players who jsut like to take a few relaxing moments to look at some pretty lions and produce even more pretty lions because that's the way they like it. And no one should dictate to anyone else how to "properly" play their game - whatever amuses you the most is perfectly fine, right?

All that said, we do have one big common problem with excess cubs on here. People can't sell them, others are forced to chase away even when they don't want to. market is out of wack (since cubs are, for now, the only thing we're really actively tradign with one another) and subsequently, so is the overall economy.

Of course, you can always chase the cubs away and many people on here do exactly that. Some others don't, however and others yet are overflowing the market with low-end cubs, even giving them away for free because they jsut don't want to chase the cute little furballs away for purely sentimental reasons.


So, what to do to make all of us happy here - those who love studding their lions out cheaply, those who'd like to see only 'worthy' cubs on the market, those who'd like to force the prices up (or further down) again...?

Well, one thing that could go long ways to achieve that would be to create a way to sell the excess cubs directly to the game itself. Please bear with me while I expand the concept further:

Create a "cubs game store" and call it something like... "Lion Conservation Project" for example. If you can't sell a cub to other players and don't want to chase them away, your third alternative is to sell the cub to the "Conservation Range" instead.

Now, the symbolic fee you'd recieve for doing that should not be something big - Don't expect to sell the cublet for 500 SBs or 5 GBs or something. What you would be doing is a bit of a charity service there - you'd donate the cubs to a project dedicated to preserving and conserving the species, a project that would later on use those cubs or theri offspring to reintroduce the lions back in the areas in which they got extinct.
...Or whatever other suitable blurb suits you. I'm a biologist, so I like this one best. :P

However, not all cubs are really worth teh same, are they now? Someone would 'donate' a high statted cub and someone else a very low-statted one and they both get the same symbolic payment for them? Not fair. Or how about the difference between custom and non-custom lions, numbers of markings... everything?

Well, we'd calculate the payment you recieve based on several factors:

If you donate a high-stat cub, you'd get more than for donating a low-end one.

Far as the blurb goes, let's say that you just donated a healthy, strong new individual that is almost certain to survive to reproduce and create healthy offspring in turn. Good for you! You just made a huge difference in lion conservation project!

However, what if you donate a low-stat but high-markign or custom-coloured cub instead? Again, you'd recieve more than for donating the low-marking or wild-coloured one.

And the blurb for that would say that you have just introduced some very fresh and very valubale new blood to the overall gene pool. We all know (I hope) that one of the biggest problems in conservation is the extremely depeleted gene pools of the endangered species that we start from and therefore, donating 'fresh blood' (in other words custom colours/markings and so on) should be valubale in their own rights.


Small clarification here:
Since it has been pointed out in enough many comments that the idea of a lion intentionally giving cubs to humans is highly unrealistic, let me explain it a bit better. What the blurb would say would be something along the lines of "Humans came and picked out some cubs". What would actually happen game-mechanics-wise is that you, the player, would pick which cubs to donate.

I did not want to put the blurb first because people might get the wrong idea that I'm suggesting random cubs be taken from their dens without their input or agreement.


What do I hope to accomplish with this? For one, give some sort of a "drainage" route for the excess cublets on here. With this feature in place, many players would opt to donate the cubs there rather than go through a hassle of tryig to sell them or give them away. That would automatically mean far less clogging of the market and that, in turn, might give the prices a chance to stabilize in a more reasonable manner.

Finally, it could provide a small starting income for the new players - not much, but at least something. And also, a way to make those who just love breeding a chance to play the way they like palying without creating some huge disbalances in the process.


edit
I crunched some numbers for the "Conservation Center" now:

plain coat: 3SB
custom coat: 5SB
stats: 1 SB per 2 stats over 35 (rounded down)
:markings 4SB per marking (regardless of opacity)

Just to give you a rough idea of how that would work:

"Best" case scenario:

Custom-coloured, 10-marking cub with 100 stats:

5 (custom coat) + 15 (stats) + 40 (10 markings) = 60 SB

"Worst" case scenario:

Wild-coloured, 0-3 markings cub with under 30 stats:

3 (wild coat) + 0 (stats) + 0-12 (markings) = 3-15 SB

I'd say the prices are nicely evened-out; you'd be getting a really token payment for a very valubale cub and you'd get just enough to play a few Cups or glance at a Scrying Stone for a sub-par one.

Because the whole idea is to provide a way to do away with the excess cubs, not to provide a way to make tons of SBs.


edit

idea by Nephala [TCC] (#11886):
"Addition to the conservation to get people tossing cubs there instead of the TC would be a yearly reward from the "breeding stock," in the conservation sent on your birthday or a certain day of the year if you have donated enough cubs to the conservation. I'd think the "prize" could be anything from high stat lionesses to custom colored ladies."

alternate suggestion by Lynx (Raion) (#1885):
And maybe instead of custom ladies the prize could be gb for "highest donator for the year" so that no one can say "that wouldn't be fair for the people who buy/work hard for gb" or something along the lines since it would happen once a year.. And maybe have a certain amount of winners?


addition by muttduck (#78):
NONE of them [NCLs] should be in heat when claimed.

---while this does not pertain to the idea directly, it still deals with the overflow cublets problem and thus I added it in.
~~~~~~



This, of course, is just rough bone frame of an idea. Developing it further - how to determine the payments recieved to make them both reasonable and balanced above all needs some further tought. And since I'd rather not sit and ponder it all on my ownsies, I'm putting this up for discussion to see what others might come up with along these lines.

I'll make few suggestions to start it off:

---We could have a leaderboard for the "most cubs donated" or "most healthy cubs doanted" or "most genetically diverse cubs donated"

---We could have something like... badges or fame or however you choose to call it - a third in-game currency of sorts that, if you gain enough of it, would give you access to some special perks or something. Yes, yes, this would mean making a whole new "badge" or "fame" thing beforehand but... it's an idea at least.

And now I'd like to swim in a flood of yours! :P




This suggestion has 698 supports and 5 NO supports.



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Edited on 07/06/13 by WitchWolf (#5939)

WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-11-08 22:32:59
Kraft,

Yep. Another one of mine. Though I don't see why both of these couldn't work in conjunction, too.




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Sandeyes (#20372)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2013-11-17 10:14:02
Would adults and adolescents also be available for donating? I prefer to wait until my lions are adults before I decide to chase them, so I've got time to think about it. I'd imagine in the real world there'd be demand for adult females and the like who have already go some skills and hunts under their belt too, supplying already established hunters into these conservation populations, because they're just that much more likely to survive and reproduce, right?



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cominguproses (#1510)

Kind
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Posted on
2013-11-23 17:49:52
Support! :D this is a great idea!



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Kaliyana (#11505)

Usual
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Posted on
2013-12-06 05:57:35
Admin edit - due to content not allowed on Lioden: please don't discuss other web-browsing sim games!



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Aslana (#17146)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2014-01-17 10:56:58
YES <3



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✨Celestial
Solstice II (#23173)

Kind
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Posted on
2014-01-17 11:55:52
I support,! cub mortallity only coz in real life not all cubs survive,some get eaten or killed by other lions or animals others die due to other reason,born defect or sick. And yes i have noticed overflow of rare cubs/lions selling dirt cheap they loose value when there is an overflow I myself since started game have bred very few but actually stopped as there is an abundance in the market and was able to take advantage in stocking up on some rares.I now do not breed my lionesses until pass age 8 and alot of them are purchased.So yes introducing cub mortality will balance game, players will be able to sell their lions without compromising price



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Felicat (#24395)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2014-01-17 16:11:42
Very cute idea, and I think using the "donated" cubs for NCLs or wild lions-which you could claim for your pride-is a great idea. I'm behind this one.



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Frostfoxen (#25276)

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Posted on
2014-01-18 16:22:08
Exalting, but for excess cubs.

I like this.



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Uzurii (#22424)

Renowned
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Posted on
2014-05-08 08:23:28
I don't know why I haven't seen this before! I suggested this same concept just yesterday-- though not nearly in as full detail-- so of course I support. :D



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Axel (#6627)

Pervert
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Posted on
2014-05-08 08:45:27
It has been confirmed by the developers at the suggestions for righting the cub market, that there will be no such system developed which would enable you to sell your cubs for SB to an NPC. SB is already plenty... too plenty. We need more ways to spend them on and not to get more.



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AuroraValkyria (#37511)

Evil
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Posted on
2014-07-01 17:58:56
Support :)



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Alabai (#28971)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2014-07-01 21:17:10
I have been thinking about this a LOT... a whole lot. And being a storyteller by heart, I had several ideas:

1) There might be a link to 'territory of humans' or 'on the other side of the river' or some Lion-like description of a place where other things exist. (like the gaming section for games, or the scrying stone for multiple forms of scrying have done.)

2) You could have more than one 'mysterious' place in which cubs can be disposed of in game, with various results:

A) There is a dark series of caves here... mourning Lionesses sometimes come to grieve lost cubs, or their infertility, inability to have cubs... and sometimes... just sometimes... they find a cub here. No one knows where they come from... but the Lions and Lionesses who take them home with them are deeply grateful for this miracle.

(hey, your call if anyone can actually pick up a random cub this way- but if it is cubs, not adols, then I suggest they be required to have a lioness to adopt it, and she be put on breeding cooldown just as if she had birthed it, regardless of it's age. This is not a /POUND/ for lions- it is a mystical place!

B) This is a raucous, loud place- a canyon that is deep and wide with a shallow river running through it, and an abundance of birds and small animals.... and an OVER abundance of cocky your Adolescent Lions/Lionesses! Your Lion may come here to watch them wrestle, play, or even fight... and sometimes they form little prides, and leave on their own. No Lion ever has the same story twice, about how they stumbled upon this place- but some are rumored to have been dropped off here by an unappreciative pride... while far MORE of them have run away from their prides to find a new life- and a little fun!

(In this case, you could pay for a CHANCE to 'convince' one of the youngsters to come join your pride- and then have a series of options like impressing a lioness- perhaps "play with" or "roar with" or "play fight" or even for the price of a random food... the presented Adolescent will only come with you if you can bring it it's 'favorite food' like a snake-quest... this would function a little like a pound as it'd be possible to adopt the adols... but because the market is low, more will be donated, and players can go searching for a new pride member for a set cost (say, 1 SB per stat point, plus one SB per 'special' color/mark/base... and then the quest to find the one toy/food it wants to follow you home...)

There is also that biologist side you talk about... if we could come up with a 'realistic' option... maybe something like this:

You go to that place on the explore main menu as above- and then choose "have (lioness name) let (cub name) explore!"

There would be a safety fail pop-up to prevent accidents- a warning coming up that if you let (that cub) roam, it will never be seen again- dangerous things happen here!

If you press 'agreed! I will not get (cub name) back' or similar, then you'd get:

OH NO! You were just showing the cub how to chase locusts, when something stung you! You don't know WHAT happened, but now you are groggy and sore, and there is a collar around your neck- and (name of cub) is missing!

(could even add a 'what happened' if you wanted to: The others seem fine, but they tell you a two-legged human came here, and took away (cub name)!)

Amusingly, this could give a decor of 'radio collar' that has only one use- and is automatically fit on the Lioness you chose to take the cub out and explore...

This is rough because I am sick right now, but I can think of several REALLY cool ways to get 'rid' of a cub that gave you a very small perk AND wasn't a simple 'chase' button.

In some cases, you could choose a good or a bad Karmic option- for instance "leave (cub name) out here to chase snakes for a while and take a nice long nap up on those sunny rocks there..." and boom, negative karma.

You could have options all in that one 'section' which could always offer the warning that this is a section where you get rid of unwanted cubs in-game if need be.

I hate to say it, but for some folks, "throw (cub name) off the canyon wall to his death" or something could net them a FEW beetles (like under 10) as an "oooh look, beetles!" like the lion who did it just doesn't CARE, and would get a bad karma bump for doing it...

...where 'good' lions could do things like drop cubs off at the grieving place, (and "wait to be sure they're adopted"- tho that would always say it happened even if it didn't in-game)

...or a neutral choice of sending the Adolescent to the adol hangout place... which could be a "you go to see what those crazy kids are doing, and Who do you see? (adol name is chosen from a drop down list) "I don't think they are coming back home, either..." (with yes/no popup to prevent both accidents and choosing the wrong one!)

How's that work out for ya guys?



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Alabai (#28971)

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Posted on
2014-07-01 21:25:54

I should note- I STILL don't ever support anything that TAKES AWAY from the player- such as "oh your cub died, too bad for you" (even mutations can be saved by Safrou fruit! you don't HAVE to lose it if you think mutations are dumb or mean)

I ALSO do not think we need any SB coming into the economy in any way JUST from breeding cubs. I can see a tiny amount like 10 SB... but I would MUCH rather see the reward be some strange little thing like a radio collar (even chewed up and on the ground near the lioness, or ON her, etc) or a few points of KARMA, up or down, depending on how you play.

Some folks wanna murder the bad cubs- really. Some folks are attached and want happy endings to their stories.

Thus- options. Throw them off a cliff, or offer them to a cubless lioness... or let that Adolescent who is off with his/her friends STAY gone, with no karma affect, but without the stigma of forcibly chasing.

Everyone Plays differently, and everyone IS different. That's part of the charm of LioDen.



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Axel (#6627)

Pervert
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Posted on
2014-07-01 21:36:32
Well SB rewards are out the window due to an official decline. And as far as I know and how I understood, 'pounds' might be also the same way.

There are too many problems with adopting lions. For one, there can be high statted, low statted, custom lions, special lions in there that had been chased by good hearted players who want to have their cubs grow up.

BUT!

This would have a devastating effect on the cub market. It is bad as it is, but now players would continue going to that special place to try and get good cubs. Because I am sure the fee you need to pay isnt much. Thus it would be much cheaper than the cubs on the market.

People would end up abandoning the cub market and instead try to get good cubs from this place.

We already have an extremely bad cub market. No need to add to it. At least, this is my opinion, and why I am not thrilled by the idea of adding a 'pound' or a place where people can adopt cubs chased by others.



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Misha's Golden Side (#28626)

Malicious
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Posted on
2014-09-19 06:43:33
Love this so much I hate chasing all my cubs but id hate to add to the growing cub Epidemic



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