Posted by Make Broodmother Levels useful

🐶 FlipicusPup
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Posted on
2015-11-03 22:10:07
So I was inspired by another thread to come up with an idea which takes the concept they thought of and finds a slightly more user-friendly way to implement it, whilst being in keeping with game features that already exist. Please scroll down and make sure to check out my example of how easy it is to level up a lioness and reach level 7-10.

**This thread is being updated all the time, so please check back for future updates, I'm trying to collect all the ideas and opinions I can to make this work for players of every level**

First of all, unprotected cubs should drop in survival by 15-20% per rollover, this gives you far more incentive to actually use broodmothers for you pride. Protected cub's survival rate drops based on your lionesses level, and higher level lionesses can protect more cubs.

Secondly, the feed all/play all tool should work differently for cubs, I don't think the price should be changed, its affordable but still makes you think twice about if you can really afford (in time or money) a larger pride. Instead of being able to boost your cubs up to 20% numerous times until they get to 100%, it only boosts them 10% one time, so broodmother cubs automatically get the benefit and will survive, but it leaves the unprotected cubs still dropping by 5-10% each day, meaning that without intervention in the form of the bird from the monkey shop, those cubs will definitely die before they reach one year. It'll only delay the inevitable to give you some more time to think really. This is because unprotected or neglected cubs in the wild would never make it to their first birthday.

Nurturing broodmothers should start off being able to protect 2 cubs, and always have +1 cub slot compared to other lionesses of the same level. Other natures could affect it too, although I expect they're being implemented and discussed even as I type. (For instance, perhaps wary natured broodmothers are more alert and their protected cubs lose 1-2% less than other natures). LIonesses can be levelled up through either hunting or the experience they usually gain just by looking after cubs, Hunting them a few times before making the a broodmother would obviously be quicker, but I think that it makes sense that the more effort you put in, the more rewards you get back :)

Here's my proposed levels and the bonuses you get from them
Level 1- one cub, loses 10% survival daily.
Level 3- two cubs, 10% lost
level 5- two cubs, 9% lost
level 7- three cubs 9% lost
level 10- three cubs 8% lost
level 11- four cubs 8% lost
level 12- four cubs 7% lost
level 13- five cubs 7% lost
level 14- five, 6% lost
level 15- five, 5% lost

This is fairly reasonable, whilst still giving you the incentive to level up your lionesses past level 10 for the extra bonuses. Level 5-7 is achievable for even the most casual of players, so with three broodmother slots they still get 6-12 cubs protected depending on the broodmother's personality, which is a decent amount of cubs under 1yr for your average player. I also think that having only one cub able to be protected when you start out will encourage new players to first work on improving their lion a little before starting to breed, and give them some time to save up sb to support them.

What are the benefits to this?
-More uses for lionesses levels, and more incentive to hunt them, plus a good use for the experience they gain from actually being broodmothers.
-Less mass-breeding of bad quality cubs to sell, because it takes a little extra effort to get your broodmothers protecting all those cubs. They still live to 6-11 months regardless, so there will still be the option to sell them as karma fodder, meaning it doesn't really ruin your game-play if thats how you like to breed.
-A potential boost to the game's player market, making you put in some effort for those special babies you're proud of, and giving you some more things to do on the game
-Beloved lionesses who can no longer be bred can be kept around as broodmothers for your pride, meaning that you won't have to retire them early to save space/food, because they'll actually have a purpose! i think that's a lovely idea because i get very attached to my older lionesses.
-A new market opens up for older levelled lionesses, meaning the effort you've put into them isn't wasted if you no longer want them when they reach 8-12yrs
-if you find it difficult to get levelled lionesses, you can either buy them or purchase additional territory slots. Purchasing them for gold beetles helps support lioden and keep the site going.

That's all I can think of for now, and I'd like to take the opportunity to encourage discussion, good or bad, because I think that right now its incredibly easy to get your cubs survival up, and the broodmother feature doesn't really add much to the game. I feel like it could be a far more fun and useful tool.

If you'd like to take the time to quickly explain why you like/dislike the idea, or give suggestions, that'd be greatly appreaciated.

EDIT- The extra effort you put in would be minimal. getting ahold of two ugly nurturing personality lionesses who wouldn't be used for anything else, whilst you level up some prettier ones (through hunting) that could also be used for breeding. Something most players would already be doing is trying to add some stats to their favourite lionesses, and my broodmothers got to level 3 and 4 quite quickly with me just leaving them in that role, so you'd have 4-6 cubs with 100% survival rate just by interacting with them.
2nd EDIT- assigning a broodmother would still boost their survival by 30-40%. That would make it easier on everyone.
-Survival rate shouldn't go down unless you send their mother out to hunt when they're still under 5 months (say 1% drop per hunt if they aren't protected by a broodmother)
-Broodmothers should gain more experience for looking after cubs to make this a useful feature.
-Exp gained should be random, but in a higher range than it is now. I also think that the more cubs your broodmother is protecting (which would mean she had to be a higher level) the more experience she should gain. This makes it more achievable to get those high levels needed.

Thanks for reading!
Flip x
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How Easy Is It To Level My Lioness?
I just so happen to have a broodmother aging up to adulthood tomorrow, so to give you an example of how much effort it takes to level one up, I'm going to use her.
Remember, already levelled older lionesses can take on broodmother duty for a few days whilst you do this.
This is Joker.
Joker is a very funny looking lioness who nobody would ever want, but because she's a little unique I'm keeping her as broodmother. In the next few days I'll send her out on some hunts, screenshot what she gets and let you know how much hunting it takes to get her up to level 5. Then I'll leave her in the broodmother role and tell you what exp she gains every day. Hopefully this will give myself and others an idea of how challenging it actually is to get a good broodmother. Remember, if you did this with a nurturing lioness, you'd be able to protect three cubs at level 5 and four cubs at level 7 according to my model.
I'll be adding a log for how fast it takes just through hunting for another lioness if I need to. Keep in mind that players like myself will always be willing to provide broodmothers at reasonable prices, not everyone will take advantage and bump prices up loads :)
EDT- Joker's first hunt, she's in with level 1-7 lionesses. As you can see from just one trip out in a full hunting party, she's gained enough experience to get to level 3, if she was nurturing you could already use her to protect 3 cubs using my model
Screenshot one
Joker's second hunt put her up to level 4, same lionesses on the same tiles. I cropped the image down a bit but it still shows all of the important stuff for the lionesses
Screenshot two



This suggestion has 26 supports and 47 NO supports.



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Edited on 06/11/15 @ 20:33:38 by FlipicusPup |K. (Galaxy) (#22800)

🐶 FlipicusPup
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Posted on
2015-11-04 09:46:12
Before I add it to the main topic, would being able to purchase levelled broodmothers with only one set appearence for gb equal to their broodmother stage give people more reassurance? It has the dual-function of supporting the site through donations.
For instance buying a level 3 broodmother would cost 1gb, level 5 2gb, and a level 15 would cost 10gb, etc
You would not be able to hunt or breed with them, and the only way to remove them would be to chase/kill/reserve them, or wait until they die naturally at 14 years. They would still gain experience for looking after cubs if you bought one below level 15 too. It would be like a semi-permanent version of the bird item from the monkey shop, or a bit like the feed/all play all tool perhaps? I'm not sure, so suggestions for this part of the idea would be great :)



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2015-11-04 17:21:13
Now that I think about it... I rather dont support.
Seeing you can sell cubs at 5 months, it doesnt do anything for the cub market if they can easily survive until 5 months without any kind of protection. Plus, mass-sellers never send their breeding stock to hunt, so exactly their cubs will be protected in any case.

Imo, the goal should be to make sure less cubs reach the age of sale. While this idea concentrates more on giving levels a use, it sadly will do nothing for the cub market, which was the main reason this mortality was implemented (although in a highly useless manner).

Plus you ruined the initial 'good' part of the idea by making it 'easier' on players to lure in more support, in return making it useless economy-wise.

So for now, no support.



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Edited on 05/11/15 @ 00:23:48 by Axel (#6627)

🐶 FlipicusPup
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Posted on
2015-11-04 17:51:41
Okay Axel, that's fine, I want to make it slightly challenging for casual players, difficult for mass breeders, and relatively simple for people who spend money on the site becuase that's what keeps the game alive for everyone else. I wasn't trying to 'lure' in more support, and tbh you are the only one who actually disagrees with every single suggestion I've been given, I'm just trying to cater to all players. It's by no means easy.
If you don't sell your cubs at 5 months and don't interact with them at all, they die in 2-3 days like in your suggestion, which i think would have a massive impact on the market, because any cubs not sold in three days would die, it's an incredibly limited window even for selling them as kill fodder.
Getting a lioness to level 20 is not easy and people would become very frustrated if a fun GAME suddenly became a massive chore, getting a lioness to level 5 is quite easy even with one hunt a day.
I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to sort-of disregard your comments unless more people agree with you, any suggestions should always be in favour of the majority of players.



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Edited on 05/11/15 @ 00:52:13 by FlipicusPup |K. (Galaxy) (#22800)

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2015-11-04 18:14:48
Yes, where the majority of players are the mass-sellers and the wrong playerbase you are trying to consider. Of course people would not want any kind of hard work or limit, even if it is the betterment of the game. So, do not expect much from an easily bypassed feature and do not think that what most people want will be the best option. Everyone wants to do as little work for the profit as they can. (See: SB cap, stat nerf, stat inheritance change - the majority of the players hated all of them and yet they are there)

Also, you seem to forget the fact, that cubs are advertised the day they are born in most cases. Which means that you are giving ample time for them to flood the market in Stockpile and after 5 months be put in TC for mass-sale for 3 days before they die. 8 months. They will all flood the market for 8 months. The goal is to make sure they cannot bypass it and have to care for the cubs regularly. Otherwise it isnt cub mortality, especially if the cub can be neglected at the most vulnerable times of its life. Wouldnt it make more sense to be more vulnerable while it is a newborn and a few months old?

Basically, this way people dont even need to look at the cubs until they reach sale age, which means you negate the use of brood mothers entirely for mass-sellers.

And as I have mentioned, I would see the lvl20 max cub protection as lvl31 Biome. It is a potential max, doesnt need to and wont be reached by everyone but one can still have fun and play the game, even if one doesnt have it. It is by no means necessary or vital to protect 5 cubs/brood mother. One can be happy with 4 protected cubs or 3, while caring for the rest personally.



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🐶 FlipicusPup
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Posted on
2015-11-04 18:43:47
I can see we probably aren't going to come to agrement, but I just want to mention that currently only 5 or 6 players out of about 2-3000 active ones can currently reach the highest biome in explore, and the staff are actually adding more areas and lowering levels needed to get in I believe, so your whole argument that its like biomes doesn't make sense because its being given an overhaul specifically to make it more accessable to everyone. There would be no point to the game if it was nigh-on unacheivable.
If you advertise a cub at birth then good on you, I think, but having about a week to get rid of them is superbly limited as it is. And if you really push for a cub sale then chances are that if your cub sold it was because it was actually valuable in terms of stats/marks, or it was killfodder. Karma leaderboard lions would not be where they are now without killfodder, I personally wouldn't like the idea of getting rid of cheaper karma sales because I buy them myself. These cubs also don't flood the market because people do just buy to kill/reserve them.
I think that this might help with the market a little, but like I'm mentioned before it is 30-40% market reasons, and 60-70% because I'm frustrated that lioness levels do next to nothing, and to add realism. For broodmothers, the lack of a point to the experience gain makes it completely a completely useless feature.

TL:DR- People will continue to undercut you for a quick sale no matter what, that's just how some people work the market, no idea is going to fix it completely but I think this one adds some usefulness besides helping the player economyas well.



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Megan (#68826)

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Posted on
2015-11-04 19:02:08
I'm Actually not for the lioness slots, since I don't see why they would be useful though since we already have a good system in my eyes for the amount of broodmothers you can have.
I think there's so many people against because it does limit the amount of cubs id you use low leveled lionesses as broodmothers. But they most probably don't read the whole thread. I think, they think they have to use the exp that broodmothers get to get there. I also don't like the gb lionesses idea, since players will sell them for lowerin the trading centre



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🐶 FlipicusPup
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Posted on
2015-11-04 19:42:05
Thanks Megan, all of the ideas can be changed to suit the players and staff, but I thought that being able to purchase more slots for gb without expanding your territory might be a good idea for people who mass breed and then cull after all their lionesses have given birth (to give themselves a chance to compare all the cubs). I was working mainly off of the same sort of system as the sub male slots, but I think I'll change that now, because like you said, it doesn't really add anything to the game.
I'll try to make it more clear that the lionesses can be levelled through hunting AND through being a broodmother, because all it takes is a little extra effort sending the broodmothers out on a hunt before you give them any cubs to look after.
I personally felt that the main reason for the no supports is laziness to be honest, but if people want a breeding sim that requires little to no interaction, don't play lioden. The creators and staff have worked really hard to make this game interactive and the main reason I play is because its not just another click-to-breed sim.



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Megan (#68826)

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Posted on
2015-11-04 20:26:55
Yeah, it's also that and the fact that some people don't have the time to raise their broodmothers as well. But they actually have three options: buy high levelled lionesses, hunt your broodmothers and then let them become a broodmother, ex-hunters can also do the broodmother thing.

@Axel the thing is here that untill 5 months old the mother will take care of the cub, so when the mother goes hunting, her cubs mortility rate will drop by let's say 5%, so if the mother hunts 10 times per day, the cub will have already lost half the bar on the first day, so it will never make it to the broodmother part if the mother keeps doing hunts. This idea actually lets the mother take care of cubs untill 5 months old and then the broodmothers take over.



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🐶 FlipicusPup
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Posted on
2015-11-05 03:55:43
@Megan, I'm going to put up an example of how many hunts it takes to level up a broodmother etc, so hopeefully people will get an idea of exactly how much time and effort is actually needed :) I think its a fair system that actually makes the broodmother feature useful and a bit more realistic.



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Shu .Gaggle™
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Posted on
2015-11-05 04:07:32
Just want to add that play all doesn't restore 100%, it restores 20% for Cubs. However it seems to stack so you aren't limited to one click per day, so you could spam the button to get to 100 at the moment.

Just some info to help you make your suggestion more accurate. c:



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🐶 FlipicusPup
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Posted on
2015-11-05 04:26:07
Thanks Shu :) I have noticed that for lionesses, if they lose mood through being bred and you've already interacted with them, they still gain it back when you click again, but I didn't know it worked that way for cubs.
I always wait until nearer to rollover (when I've already hunted and bred them) to interact/feed them anyway, so maybe a suggestion to fix this is in order? Its sort-of useful, but I don't know if its actually a glitch or not.



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Isabella Lena (#49545)

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Posted on
2015-11-14 08:14:37
support. Indeed this would be good for the Level lioness(10+) market



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🐶 FlipicusPup
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Posted on
2015-11-14 09:49:28
Thanks Isabella, I put a lot of thought into this idea :)



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Isabella Lena (#49545)

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Posted on
2015-11-21 21:19:03
In my oppinion you entention is good. But is is hard to read...

And i agree with you. Lvl should have influence on protecting.

It is just total sence that a level 20 lioness can protect a lot better than a lvl1.



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