Never heard of that, but I'll take your word for it.

I'd like to point out that I said make cooldown shorter OR get rid of it, not that getting rid of it was the only option (even if that is appealing). Making it 30 minutes would be fine with me.

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I am aware. Making it shorter would cause the same inflation effect more or less. Like I said there is a reason that patrolling has such restrictions on it.

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Then we can keep them. How much they go out doesn't really affect what happens when they do or any of my other ideas, so if that's the only thing everyone's 'eh' about it, we can get rid of it. I could be wrong, but it seems really inconsequential.

Maybe the injury thing will have to be changed. Mild injuries = 2 hour cooldown vs 1 idk.

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Support! I feel this would improve the game experience when I came to the useless boys in the pride.

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- If everyone's OP, then no one is.

what is this, the Incredibles?? People work to get "OP" lions and kings. They don't just stroll up and put some magical cheat in to get their 10k heir ready to become king.

Also, you forget that this is a literal fuck tonne of work. I hope you understand that Lioden only has 3 full time coders. Forcing this upon them - when it's clear that it's... well, there needs to be a TL;DR somewhere cause I honestly couldn't make heads or tails of it (besides "make everyone OP!!!").

No support. You want a high stat heir, work for it the way everyone else does

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Read through your doc, and I have to say, thank you for laying the infornation out in an organized manner, a few things peaked my interest, though as a whole, it's leaning toward no support, though I have a few questions to get cleared up before I decide, but I'll get to those in a minute.

It's a very complicated change you're suggesting that may not even work with the site-- just last year we were having incredible lag when new things were implemented. It remained until the servers got an upgrade, it'd probably be frustrating as heck to have to deal with that again when the problem was just fixed, meaning, there'd be another costly upgrade.

There's a point to the limited slots- we can only have one king at a time. You bring how lions act into the wild into your agrument, but at the same time you overlook a pretty big fact: there are generally only 2-3 sexually mature males in a pride, two being more common. Everyone is crying "subs are useless!," but that's kind of the point, isn't it? In the end, you can only king one when the time comes, and then start all over.

Implementation of this idea, or any part of the patrolling, would be a huge kick in the butt for angone who beforehand spent a lot of time and gb on getting boys to be where they are. If this is an agrument on stats, then the blame should be placed more on how difficult it is to pass stats if you don't have a female who is matching stat for stat. There are also plenty of items throughout the year that help boost these, and go alongside patrolling, making those changes unneeded. Getting boys to high stats takes a lot of time, just as anything does here. It's how the game was meant to be played, unless you have the gb to bypass all of that-- and it still takes time to do that. I know you've been here three months, but at least wait and see the other events to see what they offer in terms of giving a needed boost to help this issue.

Like someone else has mentioned, these all seem more suited to an rpg, which ino does not fit the theme of lioden. Yes, there are some elements of choice, but nothing to this extent. Not to mention, we have a very small amount of coders. This is putting work on them that could otherwise be going to the other features we were promised.

It was a lot to read, so pardon if I missed it, but what exactly did you have in mind for submales breeding? There have been a lot of ideas tossed around mulitple times about males doing things such as sneaking into territory and breeding with lionesses, or having the chance to sbeak a breeding in with their own pride, all of which were met with a rather negative response for understandable reasons.

TL;DR: I'm on the fence. The ideas are well thought out and actually pretty good (but maybe wrong for this site), but in theory it gets rid of the main part of the game: the work you have to out in to get good lions.

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Ah, Cake. I think I know who at least one of those anons were, now lol.

"You forget this is a literal fuckton of work" When is an overhaul NOT a fuckton of work?
"Forcing this upon them" LMFAO as if I have any actual power to do that. It's there site, they pick and choose what they want. I'm only making a suggestion.
"Make everyone OP!" *Looks around for where I ever stated that was the goal* Lol I've got nothin'. I bet you don't either.

Listen, Cake, come back with a better attitude and maybe I'll give your comments a glance, alright? Later.
--------
Anyway, Lassie, thank you for showing interest and laying your concerns out in a respectful and organized manner. I really appreciate it.
-Yes, I'll admit I was just sorta running off an idea high and did not consider the workload/how much it would bare down on the site. My apologies about that ^^;
-Actually, there can be up to six. And I believe I stated Lioden isn't terribly interested in realism so neither should we be, but ofc, correct me if I'm wrong. And that's the problem, not the point. Since I've arrived on Lioden, people have wanted more things to merit even keeping submales.
-Lioden gives things to it's users. When I was a gun-jumping idiot, they gave me the Piebald MOD, I'm sure older players could be brought up to speed or compensated.
-That's a point.
-I merely mentioned to breeding, I never had anything in mind for it, even if I'm totally for it! However, Lioden has a strict ban on even suggesting it so...*shrug* only so much I can do, y'know? And yeah, I know, I was the one who made those suggestions. Trust me, I remember the backlash lol

I'd have to disagree. My idea gives more options. Patrolling for example. Territory patrolling is much like normal patrolling, but Border Patrolling is more rewarding. HOWEVER, there is a greater risk involved and if you choose that option, you're possibly looking at a 2 hour cooldown (vs. 1) or and entire DAY lost vs. if you just played it safe for normal patrolling. Border Guarding is risky enough with better rewards and would just be another patrol option for gaining stats. I haven't really put down any stat numbers yet.

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Im sorry but i no supported
Hell ill be a brat about it- im not even sorry.

Patrolling right now is HARD, its supposed to be. Youve been playing three months- alot of the leaderboard players for stats have been playing longer. They spend hours patrolling males, hundreds on stat and exp items.
Many set alarms for every hour to be on top of patrolling because they WANT it, and theyre willing to put in the work.
In one bio, i read they put over 1k torts into their king-
Do you know how much that costs? Torts are worth roughly 2GB, sometimes 1GB if you find the right buyer
Lets say you buy 1k torts at 1GB a piece-
1GB is roughly 50 cents
Thats roughly 500USD

To change the way subs get stats now would just be a huge spit in the face for the people who worked so hard already. No not even a spit in the face- a kick in the balls with steel toed boots.
If you're not willing to put in the work, you shouldnt complain about stats.

And you say cake has a bad attitude? Kid, you have a worse one, attacking those who are simply stating their opinion on how unfair it is and such. Id almost like to say some of it is constructive criticisim!
Finally ill end this with a final note-
The submale prices.
Realistically a pride will only have a small handful of sexually mature males, so the slot prices as they are currently are fine in my opinion.

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I have nothing 'new' to say, as I've already said my piece. However, I've stayed subbed to this thread out of curiosity and all I'll say is that I completely support all the recent concerns that have come up:
-Coding
-Possibility of lag/slow servers accompanying this coding task.
-Lack of what makes Lioden... Lioden? (Sorry that's kind of vague.)
-Why do we need more Subs in the first place? Yes it sucks that they don't do much, but it's never really bothered me all that much. Plus their main purpose in the first place is just easy access to a single heir. The other slots are mostly there for subs to look pretty, and I'm ok with that.

New ideas in regards to subs are always welcome, but the ones you have put forward aren't really speaking to me, and that's ok. This is a difficult 'problem' (if you can call it that) to resolve without disagreement.

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I'm on the fence about this, so I'll give part-by-part which ones I disagree with.

Sub male patrolling: I think the time is fine. It only takes 15 minutes, so, to be blunt, you could get up, eat a sandwich or something, come back, and he'll be done. I believe the cooldown should stay the same for the reasons stated by brightblue.

Sub male perks: For me, the default training bar is enough. To have that in addition to an heir-specific training bar is a bit too-much of a stat boost.

NPC kings and daughters: I honestly see very little point in this other than for roleplaying purposes.

Cub sitter males: Again with the stats like I said before. I'm not even too big on realism since I believe LD strayed away from that a long time ago, but this has been suggested before and the main disagreement is the submales do not watch or care for the cubs of the pride.

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While I do support more sub male uses, I'm afraid I feel that this is too complicated a suggestion and would mean the neglecting of other aspects of lioden. If you made this more simple, and slimmed it down dramatically (maybe focusing on just one of your suggested sub male activities), I think it could work. But as of now, its too complicated and probably horrifically difficult to code and maintain current server efficiency.

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The other options to patrolling are more up to my speed, just having another thing to do with submales would be neat, maybe if patrolling and something like the border guard idea you had alongside it were more the idea, instead of getting rid of patrolling or completely overhauling it. Experience from watching how getting rid of things/ huge changes is recieved as a whole in this community makes me wonder if you instead suggested small parts of this idea separately and make it work alongside a feature here since day one instead of outright trying to replace a feature may give you more success. Let the staff decide if it replaces it or not. :)

I think a lot lf the issue here is that it's a lot of different ideas in one thread, so you kind of have to nitpick out what you really don't like, and unfortunately that can make or break a support.

But thanks for clearing those things up! I'll sadly have to go with no support for the reason that's stated above-- there's a lot of conflicting things that I like and don't like, and what I like is only a very small part of the idea as a whole. :(

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Well, let me ask you all this: what do YOU see submales doing? Some of you want more things for them to do, but whenever these threads and ideas come up, they get tanked.

What do you guys want? So we can have something to go off of, at least?

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Personally, I'd love to see something worked up on your Guard Patrol/Territory patrolling idea, pehaps both worked into one to make it more streamlined.

Though, the pretty harsh failures may need to be tweaked, losing an entire day may be a bit much, especially if you don't get anything. Maybe the "failures" could instead be small stat gains, and you'd have a regular cooldown for those, but you'd also have a small chance of you submale getting knocked out for the day-- but he comes back with something useful, with flavor text:

"[Lion name] seems to have had a run in with some curious humans! He returns drowsy, and needs to spend the day to recuperate."
(Items could range from things like some sort of special decor or even some drones?)

Kind of sounds a lot like partrolling now, tbh, but I'm sure with some work and input it can get somewhere to be something that stands alongside it, or even a special event area. I'd honestly be happy to help out. ^^

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So like...recompense for losing a whole day? How harsh should the penalties be? Need a bit more info, Lassie.

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