Posted by Adjustment to Cub Training

Mei (#53317)

Good Natured
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Posted on
2017-02-27 12:55:48
Hello all,

I learned this morning that cub training works significantly differently on the inside than what I and quite a few people I talked to previously thought.

This is the current system:
- Percentages gained from age 5-11 months cub training are gained either 75%, fully, or somewhere in between (corresponding to percentage) in stats when the lion hits 2 years.
- This means adol training (following subs on patrols, following females on hunts) is almost completely useless if the cub has been aged up without any prior cub training.
- This also means that cub training is completely luck based - if your cub happened to fail cub training a lot, that cub would get a lot less stats upon aging up than a cub who had succeeded often, even if they were both at the same percentage (say, 100%) when they aged.
At least, that is how it was explained to me this morning.

I would like to propose a change that would depend less on luck and more on the percentage of the bar filled, and also possibly factor in the cub's inborn stats. This is just one idea of how it could possibly be changed, feel free to throw out others:
- Core idea: Remove stat gain dependence on age 5-11 months cub training luck.
- Core idea: Level the ground for cubs that were aged up or just plain unlucky to have the some potential as cubs that aged naturally.
- Core idea: Make stat gain upon aging relative to the percentage of the bar filled. It could be kept at no stats unless 75-100% is filled, or it could be made so that even 15% (arbitrary number) filled would gain a low amount of stats.

- Optional idea 1: Static range of stats gained that correspond on a chart to percentage filled. For example, 100% = 200-225 stats, 75% = 150-175 stats, etc. (The math in this model is cub training percentage (as a #) * 2-2.25. It is just an example, I am not pushing for this exact model.) This would retain an element of surprise, but be based more on time put in/work rather than plain dumb luck.

- Optional idea 2: Factor in cub's inborn stats. A sample model for this could be ((cub training percentage (as a %) * 2-2.25) * cub's inborn stats) *.05. Example using said model - high stats: ((100% * 2-2.25) * 2000 stats) = 200-225 stats gained upon aging. Example using said model - low stats: ((100% * 2-2.25) * 200 stats ) = 20-22.5 stats gained upon aging. I am not actually fond of this model as it heavily favors high inborn stats, but if someone could come up with something that does factor in inborn stats without such heavy bias, I'm all ears.*

*On the flip side, the first idea could also be biased towards low-stat cubs - a cub born with 29 stats could end up with more than 8x its birth stats under the first idea's model. Not saying this is a bad thing, but I thought I'd mention it in case. Full disclosure and all that.

If you don't support, please tell me why. I am all ears for respectful discussion and opinions!
Thank you for reading and considering.



This suggestion has 132 supports and 2 NO supports.



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Edited on 27/02/17 @ 20:03:25 by Mei (#53317)

Perkon (#9703)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2017-02-27 15:11:21
I fully support this! The cub/adol training needs some tweaking



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Fading Angel (G2 2k)
[Frozen] (#81854)

Holy
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Posted on
2017-02-27 15:13:26
I don't think any cubs gets 200stats from training. None of my Cubs ever have gotten a 200stat boost. (realized you didn't mean that part as current, but again it would just make stats to easy to get)

Also I have never had an issue getting 0% 1 year olds to the 75%+ mark so the Adol training is useful

I think lioden does it by random because it gives a bit more challenge/work.

I personally don't mind lioden way.
Yes it's a little disappointing if the cub only get a few stats but lioden tries to control high stat gain to keep the challenge of the game.
If everyone could just level up cubs to get 100+ stats, the value for stats will go down.

Also with cub training being lucked base, we get decors every once in a while which is at least a bit of a prize even if a few cubs failed that day



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Edited on 27/02/17 @ 22:16:22 by Faded Moon (#81854)

Mei (#53317)

Good Natured
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Posted on
2017-02-27 15:16:27
Like I said, the numbers in this suggestion are all arbitrary numbers meant to provide examples. They are not specifics I'm pushing for.

Also - I don't think you've read this carefully. Adol training is useless if the cub had no prior cub training because no/very very few stats will be gained unless it had training in its 5-11 months period.

This information was taken from the wiki, if you don't take my word for it. ^^"



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Fading Angel (G2 2k)
[Frozen] (#81854)

Holy
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Posted on
2017-02-27 15:18:53



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Edited on 28/02/17 @ 12:48:35 by Faded Moon (#81854)

Mei (#53317)

Good Natured
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Posted on
2017-02-27 15:24:03
Others I've talked to have told me none of their adols who weren't trained before 1 year never gained more than 5 stats, even at 75-100%. The wiki also quotes this:
"When training, the initial period of training when a cub is between 5 and 11 months old is where you will accrue the VAST bulk of stats that your cub will earn when they grow into adults. Different training actions grant different stats, so it is cubhood that shapes the type of stats that will be granted."

So I suppose it is possible for some stats to be gained during adol training, I am inclined to be skeptical about your claim, especially since the wiki was just updated/revised recently.

Perhaps a helper could help clarify this for us? ^^"



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Fading Angel (G2 2k)
[Frozen] (#81854)

Holy
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Posted on
2017-02-27 15:33:06
What wiki are you talking about?
I didn't know there was a wiki for lioden.

But either way it Adol training does give a little something at least when trained 75% and higher

I think Adol training was meant for more of a back up just incase



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Mei (#53317)

Good Natured
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Posted on
2017-02-27 15:34:26
This is the official Lioden wiki's cub training page. It's also linked in the top right corner.

Also, I highly doubt adol training was a backup measure in case cub training didn't hit 75-100% - even if a cub gets a very high % per day, such as 7% (which is to my knowledge the highest percentage attainable in one cub training click), with no fails, they only have 7 days. That's a maximum of 49% cub training, which is still pretty far from even 75%.



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Edited on 27/02/17 @ 23:32:30 by Mei (#53317)

Empress Tansy (#54105)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2017-02-28 05:46:54
My <2 years olds who only do adol training usually end up with a max of 20 stats if fully trained. That's the main reason I never claim adols from the giving tree- if I do get one I want to keep there's little chance of getting decents stats from training. Cub training definitely gives most of the stats- as the wiki states- although I feel like it might be a bit unfairly skewed since adol training doesn't add much in the way of stats (in my experience).



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Lanky (#106766)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2017-03-01 09:32:45
I kinda just want a pass or fail mini game for cub training. That would make things less luck based, at least, but how well you do won't translate to how many stats they get (that part probably should still be random) so it's not entirely player-skill reliant.

Plus like @Mei said, it's pretty much impossible to get a cub to 50% with training, much less 75%



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🐾 Seth .:clean:. (#97863)

Prince of Terror
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Posted on
2017-03-21 10:20:16
yeah this is actually why I'm not keen on buying cubs. A lot of people don't train they're cubs and then I'm salty when they don't gain much stats, and then adol training is actually so much more work than cub training it feels unfair. I've seen some people get really stressed out about training an adol and then get really dissapointed when they don't have enough stats. that said I've never really minded the system much since I just don't buy untrained cubs anymore



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Vis (#24757)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2020-02-12 05:50:16
I remember Katze saying in chat at some point that patrolling and hunting adols earns individual stats. There's a chance with each patrol/hunt that stats are earned, you just don't actually see it in a log anywhere.

There is definitely a difference between a cub that's fully trained from cubhood through adolescence and a cub that's only trained in its first year with no additional patrols or hunts. Even if you use Medlar Fruit on 'em, you're going to see a LOT lower stats if you never actually patrolled or hunted them past a year. Katze's warning to me was to wait to use the Medlar Fruit until the last day if possible, that way I could get as many stats as possible from those hunts/patrols.

What I would propose is that we can actually see a log of the stats they earn, and when/where. I think it would make it a lot easier for players to put together cohesive suggestions for stat adjustments. Right now I feel like we just don't know enough about exactly how they're earned. Also for those of us that like to track these things for averages and other statistics, it would just be really handy!



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Edited on 12/02/20 @ 05:50:58 by Vis {clean ice wither} (#24757)







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