Posted by Alter Stat Change to Giving Tree Cubs

[△] Nadir (#108458)

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Posted on
2017-11-07 02:55:14
[ Support My Other Suggestions? ]

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✪ Summary:

This suggestion is intended to be (hopefully) implemented along side [ this one ] if it is approved.

So we all know that The Giving Tree wipes stats from cubs that are donated.

"But Nadir, not everyone breeds for stats!"

This is entirely true. However, The Giving Tree overlooks one very important issue with the stat wipe: You have an extremely limited window to get the required training in during the 5 month to 11 month period of their life.

It's no secret that when training a cub, the stats gained as an adolescent are paltry when compared to those gained through solid, successful Cub Training. For those looking to give their cubs a boost on maturing, Cub Training is necessary, as even with full training as an adolescent, the stat gain is barely anything. So the problem that arises is that cubs in The Giving Tree sometimes only have 1 or 2 days left to do Cub Training. For those hoping for a solid marked cub, while still attempting to maintain stats, breeding into such a lineage can be crippling, and the rarity of the marks doesn't soften the blow much.

To this end, using the tree to any extent winds up entirely worthless for these sorts of players. Why grab a cub if you can't even give it the training it needs to be on par with your other lions?
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✪ What I Am Proposing:

[+] Boosting the stat drop randomization.

Currently, the tree appears to randomly generate stats in the 30 to 40 stat range. I agree with Sólsetur's opinion that the most logical course of action is to simply boost this range. To help ensure that this feature is not cheated and gamed, I propose the following:

> Any cub or adol abandoned at the tree with OVER 400 STATS will be subject to a randomized new stat between 200 and 400. Basically, a tweak of the current stat randomizer applied to these lions.

> Any cub with UNDER 400 STATS will not have its stats touched. This is to ensure that players cannot drop a cub at the tree and pick it up to gain quick and easy stat boosts on a cub to game the system.

It is far easier to produce HIGH STAT CUBS in large numbers than it is something like mutations, since having high stat parents guarantees high stat cubs. This is important because while stats are virtually useless, they are a selling point for studs regardless, as the community itself has deemed them desirable. So while I support higher stat cubs being able to be dropped at the tree, I neither would like to see the efforts of stat breeders infringed upon, nor their donations entirely stripped of worth. I feel as if this is a good middle ground to expand upon.

If you don't support, I'd like to know why. I appreciate constructive criticism over a simple "no".



This suggestion has 1139 supports and 31 NO supports.



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Edited on 13/06/23 @ 09:01:58 by [△] Nadir (#108458)

la la lies (#121399)

Terrifying
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Posted on
2017-11-07 05:30:33
I agree. I think that stats should be cut to 25% instead of a standard 30 or so.



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CALA (#105146)


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Posted on
2017-11-08 00:04:17
Tbh I don't entirely understand why they are even cut at all? I don't see how it could be deemed beneficial or instrumental in preventing "tree abuse"? Nonsensical to me, so this gets a fat support from me - without even checking out the side suggestion (which I'll have a look at soon x'D!)

I end up stuck with cubs I don't really want, simply because they have decent stats around the 600 - 800 mark, and I feel like it is just a bit too much of a waste. They might not be "statters"; but they're good range, yanno?



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❄️ YOUKAI ❄️ (#128717)

Unholy
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Posted on
2017-11-08 22:06:07
Yeah, the massive stat cut is what always turns me off from even bothering with the tree, so this definitely has my support ;-; Never saw the reason why the stats were cut in the first place to be honest.



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NoodleBoi (#106044)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2017-12-17 03:39:00
Omygiosh this! I wish my high stat cubs could stay w high stats, I’d love to make someone’s day w a 500+ stat cub.
As well as muties! I would gladly donate some but I don’t put up a raffle because it’s overwhelming, it would be more easier to give it up to a random person



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Crossflare (#56198)

Savage
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Posted on
2018-06-04 02:47:43
me thinks the whole low stat cubs was intended to be fair if you ask me tree cubs should at least be in triple digits so that thry have fighting chance. I would say anything above 1k if sent to tree should be lowered but not to the point where it's like 23 stats man.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2018-06-04 02:57:47
@Geralt Of Rivia Bastet's Guard (#56198) :: Totally agree. I haven't been around long enough to say if it's just an archaic leftover that was never adjusted, from an age when stats were important to far fewer people, but introducing low stat lions into a pride can hurt your lineage. And as the market and stud fees prove: while useless, stats sell!

Potentially leaving cubs at current stats but wiping anything over 1k to like 700 or so would be fair, I'd think? It'd make sure stat replacer potatoes aren't being nabbed up left and right, since this IS something that could fuck the market. I'll leave this up and write a revision to it tomorrow.

Thank you for thinking of this!



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Crossflare (#56198)

Savage
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Posted on
2018-06-04 03:06:15
I mean my Xanthic would probably be killed in heartbeat for it's stats despite it's special base. So if they keep it the way it is lots of people will be killing special bases thst they like because of low stats.



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Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)

Phoenix
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Posted on
2018-06-04 03:30:44
Neutral Support

I think what the tree was designed for was a free place for new players to get cubs that have markings other than the custom starter markings. And as an option to not chase off/kill pretty cubs. As well as help to desaturate the trade center of "blegh" cubs. (Although I have my doubts about how well that worked) With the tree, new players can introduce special markings into their pride while still making statted cubs valuable in the TC. Statted stud owners spend a lot of time and money getting their kings where they are, they take pride in their cubs and sell them accordingly. If you can get a higher stat cub for free, why buy from the TC? How would this affect the cub economy.

This is just a theory, but...If a cubs at 1k stats were ever abandoned a -25% would make the cub a 750 stat cub, thus the market for 750 stats might lower in value if you can get one for a broken camera from the tree. As it is, the market on cubs is struggling already despite markings and stats. With so many high stat boys out there, the market for 1k cubs has plummeted the value into the lower SB price range.

As a marking and stat breeder, I would rather chase off/kill cubs than send them to the tree if this were the case. I think a large number of nice cubs would disappear from the tree if it this suggestion were implemented. Its nice that new players can get some nice looking cubs once in a while. It is random, but there are some very very nice cubs in there at times.

Breeding a low stat tree cub is a choice anyhow. There are lots of nice ones in the TC that can be bought that still have good stats and the markings you are looking for.

On the other hand, I could see this being used for males as it would likely increase the adoption rate and possible sex change if the cubs were pretty enough. Ive abandoned so many boys in hopes they would get sex changed because they were so pretty. And sex changed generate revenue for Lioden and further our ability to play.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2018-06-04 15:06:47
Sólsetur, Sunset King! (#36375) :: Holding off on further edits to inquire with you, Solsetur.

I have a question to ask your opinion on regarding this.

Would you feel it was fair if cubs were only culled to a lower number if they were over 400 stats? Right now, a big factor of myself and a lot of players is some of the cubs we wanna dump have decent stats and we dont want it hilariously culled to 30 or so because we worked hard to get our stats up that far and wanna give em away with stats intact. So does 400 seem like a more reasonable number to be culled to? Not stat replacer material but certainly not garbage either and can be trained up more easily to a reasonable number.

In this way, we won't have to worry about the hilariously low stat wipe but also you wouldnt have to worry about a tree potato being stat king material very easily? Sure they could cub train it (if they get it young enough with enough days) and patrol it but that stat gain still will be difficult to get over 1k without a lot of hard work same with any heir.



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Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)

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Posted on
2018-06-05 03:55:46
@Vincent:

I think originally the low stat number is supposed to be in line with NCLs who were chased from prides. But seeing that elite NCLs can have upwards of 100+ stats when claimed, I can see cubs with perhaps around the 200 range. In lieu of that make them Heritageless as well maybe.

Would getting Tree cubs make the market tank for that stat range? I dont know. But it would be a concern for people who are struggling to sell unchased cubs in the 300-400 range. If Tree cubs were claimed and recycled back into the TC people would be claiming cubs to try and sell them. I kinda wonder if the stat plummet is to discourage reselling, but still make available markings that new players could not originally afford available to breed.

What if cubs could randomly be between 200 and 400, but no guarantees? Like a dice roll? That way when someone chases a whole stack of cubs that are originally in the 500-1k range, they dont saturate the market with 400 stat cubs? People claiming might get a 100 stat or a 400 stat from that same group?

I do like the idea though, its a good midground to start with.

When dealing with cubs there is a sensitive line that we dont want to cross where cubs become worthless/free because of breeding en-mass for marks or stats. I remember when they started the tree, for many reasons. A newbie "free cub hub" as well as a sympathetic area where people didnt have to chase or kill their numerous cubs in their overcrowded dens. Because, face it, they love all their fluffies and dont want them to disappear! I think thats why the gorilla was also created, for the uggo cubs that can actually help benefit players who bred a cub from 2 fabulous parents only to get a 0 marking albino, but its got the eyes that weird gorilla wanted, so, hey, sell it for a little SB.




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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2018-06-05 05:42:27
Sólsetur, Sunset King! (#36375) :: I honestly love the randomized feature for cubs over the 400 stat threshold. It should just be a tweak to the current code. Currently the code seems to generate stats between 30 and I think 39 (I can't say for certain but I don't think I've gotten a cub above or below that).

I think it would be a good safety measure for anything under 400 to retain its current stats, that way someone can't put a cub with less than 100 stats in the tree when the female cubs section is empty, and grab their cub back with boosted stats. That'd be a real cheaty way of getting free stats I'd honestly like to avoid.

From my own experience, selling a lion with stats in the 400 range doesn't mean it'll get sold, let alone for any substantial price. I've had lions with 600+ stats and enclave marks that I couldn't get above 200 sb for, so I feel like having the randomized amount won't make it so you can sell them easier, unless it's a mottled rosette and even the price for those has been dropping.

I'm gunna go ahead and modify this suggestion entirely to reflect what we've talked about, because to be honest, I really like boosting the randomized stat feature it already has like you suggested.



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

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Posted on
2018-06-05 05:51:48
This suggestion has received an overhaul on 05/06/18 at 05:52:08. The revisions have been made to the main topic. It's still very much open for discussion, and if you no longer support the proposed changes, please feel free to change your vote!



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Desolace, Colorbomb (#36375)

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Posted on
2018-06-05 09:27:59
Thanks Vincent! This makes more sense over all! Support!!



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Crossflare (#56198)

Savage
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Posted on
2018-06-07 11:26:21
I still support this I like capping it 400 stats it ensures that we won't have like 500 statter cubs in the tree but also keeps it at at least a chance to get a cub with some decent stats so that people aren't likely to kill off special bases or mutations purely based on stats. hopefully this gets taken into consideration by the coders.



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springacres (#424)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2018-09-24 00:11:24
Just saw this and as someone who has kept more than a few of her tree cubs, AND is a stat breeder, I support 10000%! We need a much higher stat cap for treed cubs, given that dreamboat males can woo chased NCLs with stats of 120+. I am often reluctant to send high stat cubs to the tree because I know those stats will be wiped. I would rather my cubs keep more of their stats and boost some newer player's pride right off the bat than require constant grinding throughout their lives to get back a fraction of the stats they were born with.



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