I'm sorry, but no support from me.

While most people have at least a couple of lionesses in their pride, not everyone has a submale on their account at all times, which would create a disequilibrium between those that have both - and thus can have pride members flirted with, regardless of their sex - versus those that only have females on their account. This could be remedied if you took away the choice to flirt with a male or a female pride member - and I'd be fine with that, as it'd be something like male and female groupies during May. But I don't think the option of flirting with main males directly is a good one, because it'd ignore the events' mechanics - that is, defending our pride from the advances of others - and it'd impose a flavor text onto everyone's main lion - a text that'd be glaringly male, and thus could bother those that have "queens" instead; it'd be like favoring one group of people over another.

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I mean, I feel like it’s unnecessary and could be even annoying to those who aren’t LGBT for religious/personal reasons. I personally wouldn’t mind it, but I can see where other people wouldn’t really want this. Maybe have an option to opt out of having males flirt with you, like in May when you can choose male or female groupies?

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Please my king is gay af

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my king is big bi, yes blease!

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Newsflash: LGBT+ folks can be homophobic/transphobic :) it's their opinion, but doesn't change the fact that it is homophobic and being LGBT+ themselves doesn't sugarcoat homophobia, just saying

If anyone doesn't like this for personal/religious reasons, they are homophobic. If they don't like "the gays", THEY have to change their views, it's not our job to hide our existence to please homophobes. If you're not bothered by a hetero couple/interaction you sure as hell shouldn't be by a LGBT+ couple/interaction

If your reasoning for not supporting is any besides coding, you're homophobic. It's your opinion, but that doesn't exempt it from criticism nor it means it's not shitty. Period. Your opinion perpetuates a view that gets people killed, and nor me or anyone else has to respect this. I don't respect hate. It's not a futile opinion like "ew tangor markings are ugly". It has a real effect on real human beings. We just want to feel we are a normal part of society and have our existence normalized. People still talk as if we are trying to shove ourselves on their faces and offend you. We just wanna feel safe in place with people like us instead of keeping a low profile. We exist

Not to mention lions are one of the gayest animals out there

Support!

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You’re awfully rude about that. It’s not homophobic to want to respect people’s personal and religious beliefs. I like being represented as much as anyone else, but I believe that if we want to be respected, we have to show some respect too. An “opinion that gets people killed” is so extreme it’s actually laughable. We do exist, but we also need to coexist with others too.

Again, just make it so that you can opt out of it, just like you can opt out of male groupies. Then I’ll support it

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I'm not rude, I'm just talking the truth. If you're reinforcing homophobia, you're homophobic. Their personal and religious beliefs are homophobic and you're ok with that. That's also a naive way to see things. If someone is homophobic and you respect that, they will still be homophobic and upon seeing complacency, it will only take time to escalate to something worse.

"Is so extreme it's laughable", good thing you can laugh at it, I'm happy reality never hit you in the face. I'm glad you never had people wanting to beat you, gathered a mob to drag you just because they THOUGHT you were gay. It's not extreme, it's the reality you fail to see and just because it haven't happened to you YET, doesn't mean it is extreme, doesn't happen on a daily basis or you should laugh at it. I have a side shaved head and the amount of homophobic slurs I have to listen every time I go out it's ridiculous. Opinions turn into actions, these actions can be from hurtful words or ASSAULT. It happens

"We have to appease the homophobic views too" is basically what you're saying. You sure we are the ones who have to learn to coexist instead of the people who doesn't want to acknowledge our existence? Because I can assure you that these people get pretty aggressive real life

I won't try to change your views on the matter but I also don't have to wholeheartedly respect them if I feel they're oppressive what I'm saying it's not only a opinion, these are facts. I'm not making things up, I've seen them and lived them. The Utopia of "everyone respects everyone uwu" is nice and all but I assure it doesn't work. If it did, the LGBT+ movement wouldn't even be created and needed in the first place

I like having it as a option (would help people giving the lore they want to their characters) but your reasoning behind that, I disagree with I'm sorry if I was rude (it wasn't intentional) but that's one hard to swallow pill if not sugarcoated

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I mean, yeah... Just because it's religious or personal doesn't mean it isn't bigoted. I agree there.
And, yeah, LGBTQ+ people can be homophobic/transphobic. For instance, some binary trans people don't support nonbinary people. Enby folks = trans people; enbyphobia = transphobia; trans person not supporting trans person = transphobia.

Don't get too heated, my dudes. We all want the gay lions.

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Some of these messages are making me somewhat want to change my ‘Support’, but I’m keeping it there for now. While I support the community, i almost feel as if some of these things are saying ‘Agree with us or you’re homophobic/transphobic!!!!!’ and that shit rubs me the wrong way, I’m sorry.

The reasons being behind my now hesitanty to continue supporting are:

> Amount of Submales in the game will make it so some people get fuckin’ flooded with notifications with it. Personally, I like having Submales since I like having my maned bros with me. However, I hate getting spammed with notifications myself.

> LioDen is a website catering to the masses. Typically, when something is presented as something from the LGBT community, then it will be purposely vague and up for interpretation. While it’s a bummer, it keeps from bringing politics into the game. This is despite the fact that I hc my new king as Pan — it might get a bit shaky, and I’d hate seeing the admin team losing players because of this.

> Having an opt out button, while helping the people who might not want to have kings swoozing right up onto their Submales and keep the mass amount of notifications away from them will guarantee that the people who don’t will be hella spammed. While some people have 40+ lasses in their prides, other people might have 1-2 Submales.

> Lastly, the whole reasoning behind ‘disliking this beyond a coding reason makes you homophobic’ is bullshit, I’m sorry. I’ve seen this argument used a lot on the forums and I cannot condone that. Those are heavy words to throw around.

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> What if we cut out sub males and make it kings-only?

> I understand. The thing is, many heterosexual elements of the game are not "open to interpretation." LGBTQ+ elements shouldn't have to be coded unless the heterosexual ones are also coded, you know? Otherwise, like.... inequality.

> [My first bullet]

> I don't know how I feel about this one. It IS heavy.

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I honestly like the idea and support it, except that you won’t let people opt out. That’s all I’m asking for, really. I didn’t even think about Adamymous’s take on it with the whole spamming, but that’s another reason to include it. Other LGBT stuff is optional or intentionally vague, so why not this? I’m both religious and bi so I know both sides of the coin here. If I were in a religion that adamantly rejects this stuff, it would really suck if I couldn’t partake in one of the most lucrative events in LioDen just because we couldn’t just opt out.

Edit because I started typing before you replied your last: the kings-only thing would make it better for the inequality, especially because you gotta pay a hefty fine if you want more submales and some people avoid subs for this reason

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Then, ah... Can there also be an "opt out" for the regular straight flirting? I'm on board only if both can be opted out of (I'm not saying that many people would opt out of it. It should just be there).

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How about something like May where an NPC (maybe Nirah, because he’s my gay boy) asks what kinds of lions you’re looking to flirt with? You can say “Ladies, my dude,” “Kings, actually,” or “anyone suits me!”

If your king is gay, he can opt to only flirt with kings and vise versa. If you have a queen interested in ladies or a straight king, same concept

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> Making it Kings only might ignore the way this mechanic is supposed to work, also with people with Lab-Tested kings who might want their "Kings" to be referred to as "Queens". While I agree this might solve the whole "not everyone has a Submale" stuff, it will not solve the uneven ratio of lads to lasses, unless there was something else to compensate for that. You catch my drift?

> The reason heterosexual elements are not coded is because there really aren't any political reasons surrounding it. I assure you that I believe that if there were no issues with people being so extreme as to do all of the violent acts as mentioned earlier in this thread, there would be no issues with people taking things to an extreme here. I don't want LioDen getting in trouble for some things, but it's a real shame. I wholeheartedly believe in equality, but LioDen is a website where people try and also make an income. Heterosexual encounters were also among the first, and are also somewhat coded in with having a King with his pride of lasses...?? Lab test frogs can give some lore contrary to that, but you do see my point, right?

> {First bullet}

> Yeah, I see it thrown around like candy on Halloween. I have an example but I don't want to bring more drama here, dude. I just hope I come across as rude or anything, I am simply stating concerns.

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> By the same logic, some people have lab-frogged lionesses that they would prefer to have referred to as males, I guess, you know? I get your logic.

> I do see your point. I'm just pissed off that you're right, because it SHOULDN'T be that way. One day, we won't have to bend and cater to people. I swear on my heartbeat. (None of the anger is directed at you, it's directed at society as a whole)

> [ygtfrgvhjbh]

> Nah, I get you. Concerns are appreciated because they make sure that the suggestion is "tried and tested," so to speak.

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