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-LOCKED - A Statement About Moderating | |
Posted on 2019-02-21 12:54:31
Hi all, Abbey here on behalf of the admin and moderating teams. We'd like to announce right now that in the coming weeks we are planning on removing moderator badges across the entire site. We are not demoting moderators or getting rid of any systems, we are just removing the badge from visible areas next to player names. We hope that this will make the game a better place to be for both players and moderators, and hope that moderators and players can have a less tense relationship with one another. Addressing Moderating ConcernsWe would like to take this opportunity to address some concerns that players have raised with regards to the moderating system. The anonymity of moderators within the modbox has now been in effect for over a year and over this time we have seen that this system has worked very well from behind the scenes. However, we do acknowledge that there has been some scepticism from various members over how this system actually works. So for the sake of transparency and clarification, we'd like to give some insight to our moderating practices and how the system works for moderators and admins versus members. Firstly, a PSA: Moderators and admins are two very different roles on the site. Admins are the group of staff who handle the game's functionality and features. They each have different roles, but they talk with each other on a daily basis about various things regarding running the game. Admins decide when rules should change, when changes to the game should be made, they are responsible for the coding and artwork coordination, and general behind-the-scenes stuff. The community admins work daily with the moderators whereas the non-community admins do not. Moderators are volunteer members of the team who help us handle rule-breaking members. They are sometimes asked for input on various changes to how we moderate, rule changes, but ultimately have no control over the main parts of the game. They do not have the ability to change event bars, or add items to shops, or anything like that. Moderators are purely for moderating the forums, chat and players as a whole. They enforce the rules, and have no ability to edit the game in any way. Anonymous Moderators On the front-end of the modbox, we changed it so that members could no longer see specifically which moderator was handling their ticket. This change was made primarily to cease some of the targeting that staff were seeing from members after having a decision made on their ticket that the member disagreed with. Additionally, if a moderator took some time to respond, they would sometimes start receiving PMs. A lesser-known reason for why we changed the modbox to only show "Moderating Team" is because we felt as though it was dishonest of us to claim that one single person handled a ticket. This sometimes turned into a moderator being disliked because they were viewed as being the sole person who made a decision that someone didn't like, when in fact that decision likely had the input and support of multiple moderators and an admin. Additionally, ANY response from a specific admin came with the support and input of every single member on the admin team, regardless of who actually claimed and handled that ticket. Why do tickets take so long sometimes? Firstly, the vast majority of tickets have at least a second opinion from another moderator or an admin. Moderators do not moderate and make decisions alone as a rule. Those that take longer to resolve often have the input of a large portion of the moderating team and sometimes multiple admins. This takes time for everyone to have a discussion, give their input, and ultimately come to a decision on what to do. Just like players, moderators act under a specific ruleset, they are under constant supervision of admins and other moderators. Moderators have never banned a user for no reason - we always act on information or reports. If we believe we have made a mistake in our decisions, we will try to correct it and inform the player involved. Why did X get punished, but Y didn't? Why did Z get banned for doing nothing? Because we don't discuss player punishments publicly, the only time any information about reprimands comes out is from the player themselves. Sometimes a player disagrees with a decision we have made and will tell friends that they got a raw deal. This is fine, we appreciate that everyone takes away a different account of what happened, but please be aware that there is always more to the story. Additionally, if one player was punished for something but another player wasn't - we ask you to please trust that we handle all reports of rule-breaking behaviour fairly according to our terms of service and code of conduct. It is possible that they have received punishment, perhaps not the same as you because there were a different set of circumstances surrounding the event, or for a variety of other reasons. If you witness a user breaking the rules, then we strongly advise you to report that behaviour to us. We rely very heavily on reports of rule-breaking behaviour - we encourage members to report anonymously when they come across this on the site. Why don't you discuss player punishments publicly? Logs of player punishments actually fall under "personal data" as of the GDPR of May 2018 so we legally cannot disclose any information about player punishment with other members. We have always had this rule in place, however, so that is not the full reason. We dislike bringing up player punishments due to the subjectivity of what has happened to cause the punishment. Moderators have to rule on varying degrees of the same rule. For instance, what exactly constitutes scamming? How can we tell this was a definite scam? Where do we draw the line on what is a scam and what is just a promise transaction that never went through due to various reasons? What effect does this scam have on the victims, and the economy as a whole? Additionally, we prioritise the maintenance of a user's privacy - nobody should be privy to what happens as the result of a ticket other than the moderating team and that user. We heard you don't use off-site evidence but there have been some times you have used it? We don't use off-site evidence as a general rule because it is very easy to fake screenshots, or impersonate someone when we don't have the back-end information that Lioden provides to us. If there is concrete evidence that this person has definitely done something offsite (e.g. is selling Lioden items/lions for real money) and we can verify it on Lioden then we will happily take off-site evidence into account. Moderating - moving forward We want to continue being a great team who works together to moderate Lioden. We hope that removing the moderator paws from moderators will allow them to play the game normally, as a real member. They have been forced into the spotlight since day one and we'd like to offer them the opportunity to sit back and enjoy the game as a member once more. However, this doesn't mean there are no longer mods. We will be ensuring that we keep a team fully stocked and raring to go so that any reports and tickets created by members are handled promptly and fairly. We would respectfully ask that you don't message formerly listed mods about whether they are still a moderator or not as we believe they are entitled to their privacy with this change. If you encounter an unfair ruling or something that isn't handled how you think it should be, we still encourage you to report your ticket to the support email (support@lioden.com) or Abbey (#1). ---------------------------------------------------------------- If you have any transparency questions, or questions about how we moderate and why we make some decisions, please ask and we will try to answer in admin responses over the following few days. Please keep in mind we will not answer questions about specific cases. ![]() |
Dez (#66551)
Confused View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:00:19 |
I'm keeping up with the thread, and I just thought of something else that this is likely to cause. A sort of "Salem witch" situation where there are a lot of people who feel like they can't trust what they're being told by anyone. I just really don't think this is going to work out that well. ![]() |
Uhuru (#92107)
![]() Luscious View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:01:41 |
While I can see why these decisions were made and how staying anon is going to make this game more enjoyable for the moderators, I am still not entirely sure if it's a wise decision. I'm working for a hotline were we do customer support for one of Germany's largest newspapers. We have a big team and everyone is handling customer requests / complains at the same level. If we cannot solve the issue or do not have the authority to do so, we pass it on to specialists on a higher level who, however, are not in direct contact with the customers on a day-to-day level. However, some issues take longer to be resolved and customers call repeatedly , to find out the what the state of the affair is. Most customers are taking note of the name of the person they were talking to during their first call, and when they call again they usually ask gor the person they were speaking to before, so they don't have to start explaining things all over again. However, we cannot connect calls from one colleague to the other, quite apart from working different shifts, so this is quite often a source of confusion. I believe that, in the long run, it might appear that things are going the same way here. Therefore, even if there are no stamps or an official list, would be far better to at least let people know who handles their modbox ticket - and give them a chance to get back to that same person about the issue, to avoid that one person starts handling things one way - just to find that someone else messed it up by doing something entirely different. I am not sure if I explained myself well, but I hope it makes sense. Admin Response: I do understand what you're saying here. However, admins are able to see which moderators are handling which tickets, as are other moderators. A log is in each ticket with what member of staff replied at what time, so we have accountability and admins can intervene where possible to discipline or correct a moderator if we feel a mistake has been made. Additionally, if you ever feel your ticket has been handled unfairly, you can always submit an email to our support email or contact Abbey (#1) directly on Lioden and it will be investigated. ![]() Edited on 21/02/19 @ 15:12:05 by Uhuru (522/600 Heart Shells) (#92107) |
Teafox (#42483)
![]() King of the Jungle View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:04:15 |
Fading Angel- Then they should keep dealing with each incident individually. Add more moderators to the team if they have trouble dealing with all the incidents. Or find another way to help the mods that doesn't involve hiding their status from the entire community. Look at it this way: there are tons of other websites out there that have the same amount of players as Lioden (if not more) and they manage to keep all of their moderators and admins visible to the public, even though they undoubtedly deal with similar issues. If they can manage it, I'm sure Lioden could, too. ![]() |
DrunkHedgedog (#86439)
Cursed View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:06:27 |
@sojubean I think that that's the reason why they are hidding now, that 'horror stories' now are not gonna have name... To me It feels like they are building an invisible wall between the mods and the players. ![]() |
Aslan (#128364)
Incredible View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:08:55 |
@drunkhedgedog That is their exact goal. And that makes it all the worse. Literally says that you don't want mods to be identified. That creates a wall between players to keep mods exclusives. Admin Response: We have outlined our motives in the above post, we would appreciate you didn't speculate on issues when we have been very explicit. ![]() Edited on 21/02/19 @ 15:31:19 by Aslan (#128364) |
Little-Coyote (#166259)
Notable Lion View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:11:38 |
I don't believe in all cases getting a ticket is bad. Is that wrong to believe? It depends on the situation for me. Also I hope this isn't too off subject from the news and the update. ![]() |
Demona|ℌ𝔘| (Poop Plz) (#143460) ![]() Maneater View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:12:11 |
*sigh* the greatest of empires always did fall. To their own greatness. They were their own downfall. this is it. Now lets hope they can fix it. ![]() |
Pixiefeather (#90243)
Savage View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:12:28 |
... what are you guys thinking? first of all, i get that mods and admins deserve the same respect as other players but as adult or young adult mods they should have known or had an idea of what they were signing up for. I dont agree with hiding mods, because this can cause new or if not more issues. This community was meant to be a FUN and SAFE environment. And what has been going on lately has made this site feel shady and unsafe, at least with admins and mods, it showed who we could trust, it doesn't matter if you put warnings up about scams, its still gonna happen. Maybe if you need to let them have a second account to do this with? anyways, some positive feed back, Thank you for fixing the new chat. it works a lot better and we appreciate it :) i also trust that all this will be figured out in the end, I believe that that we, as a lioden community can do better in the future or become stronger. thanks for reading my terrible grammar and spelling. ^^, ![]() Edited on 21/02/19 @ 15:16:10 by Pixiefeather (#90243) |
Mochi (#154933)
Evil View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:14:25 |
Aslan (#128364)
Incredible View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:14:58 |
@Demona "Fate has brought all my pride to a thought of dust." Creon, Antigone, by Sophocles ![]() |
DrunkHedgedog (#86439)
Cursed View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:15:18 |
Therefor, if something go wrong, who we blame? The entire team of Mods? The admins? The game? We just go away and drop all our efforts because there are players with more power that can abuse from us? Players that we are not gonna be able to target? I think that if a mod don't want spam, they can block the messages. Add a thread were people can talk to them for example. But same as mods spy on us, and control us, we should be able to do the same Admin Response: I'm not really sure I understand your post. Mods don't spy on you or control you, they simply enforce the rules, the terms of service, and the code of conduct you are bound by in order to continue playing Lioden. If you feel you have been treated unfairly in a ticket - report it to the email or to Abbey (#1) on Lioden. Admins can see what mods are dealing with you, and can act accordingly. ![]() |
Nny (#257)
Bone Collector View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:16:13 |
Having played games where mods were treated both way too good and way too bad for their rank I can totally see why this could have been made. People forget mods are also players, as well as people, and they make mistakes. Mods have a lot of pressure all the time, especially if they're loudly announcing their rank with badge things like before. also Often people seem to confuse mods with admins in terms of abilities and power in game too, which can be frustrating on both ends lol. Despite their rank they should be treated by the community as players and be able to play the game without their rank affecting it (beyond their duties as mods ofc) so I don't see much problem with at least giving this idea a shot to see if it works better~! I also really don't see why people gotta seem to hate on every update before they give it a darn chance either but that's just how Lioden is now I guess~ ![]() Edited on 21/02/19 @ 15:17:45 by Nny (#257) |
꧁Qunx꧂maofelis korat (#134478) Pervert View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:16:31 |
man,,,is this really gonna be how this game falls? if so its not too late to recall this plan back. ![]() |
🦐 Aardwolf 🍤 (#46899)
Buzzkill View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:19:56 |
I really think you guys should be punishing toxic players instead of hiding mods. This is sorta just punishing the entire player base instead. ![]() |
Aslan (#128364)
Incredible View Forum Posts ![]() Posted on 2019-02-21 15:22:56 |
Admin Response: We are sorry you feel this way, and again invite you to contact our support email or Abbey (#1) directly on Lioden with your concerns so we can investigate. ![]() Edited on 21/02/19 @ 15:31:44 by Aslan (#128364) |