Posted by Regarding the Release of Bases, Marks & Eyes

[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-09-29 15:03:28
[ Support My Other Suggestions? ]

Making Sub Males More Useful
Revisiting Grandpaws: A Much-Needed Fix
Tidying Up 99999 SB Branch Listings
New Event Title Ideas!
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DISCLAIMER


✪ Summary:

Over the last 5+ months, we've been getting a huge influx of new bases, markings and eyes released. Normally, this would be nice. Who doesn't like a big bomb of new content every now and then? But the key phrase here is 'every now and then'.

The scope of new breedable content added monthly is becoming overwhelming and is quickly losing focus.

✪ What I Am Proposing:

[+] Slow the release of new bases, markings and eyes to give players a chance to enjoy them fully, and give us updates on promised art content while addressing current art issues.

[EDIT] Edited for clarity & better organization (9.29.2021 @ 3:47 PM)
[EDIT] Axed the parts that are coding-specific (9.29.2021 @ 5:12 PM)
[EDIT] Addressed major art updates still not in-game (9.29.2021 @ 5:15 PM)
[EDIT] Addressed applicator bases and cream genetics (9.29.2021 @ 9:37 PM)

Male Poses
As posted on 10.09.2020 in this October Development Update, we were told that male poses were coming in the following months to year. It is nearly one year to the date, and we have not seen any updates regarding male poses. It's not related to the recode. So, what's going on with it?

Edit as of 8.20.2022: Still no news on Male Poses.
Edit as of 2.10.2023: Still no news on Male Poses.


Use High-Voted Player Suggestions
If nothing else - and if Lioden developers continue to release large amounts of new bases, markings and eyes at once - please consider adding breedable content that the community has suggested, and include them in polls.

There exist a large number of player suggested bases, markings and eyes with very high community support, and yet these are often overlooked. If the breedable content added to the game were fewer in number, I could understand being more frugal with picking from suggestions. However, we're already adding new content left and right, so why not start picking from things that players design more often?


The Superior Applicator and Cream's Woes
Many of the newest bases and markings that are being added are applicators. Applicators are nice, but Lioden's breed-only content is becoming thin by comparison. Another issue is Cream, because Cream is always an issue. Interesting content for this genetic category has long been few and far between, and it suffers heavily from applicators, misplaced genetics being shoveled into it, and uninteresting designs.


The Genetics Situation is Getting Worse
As many of us know, a number of bases are being shoved into genetics groups they don't fit the rules for. While this is an issue specific to a larger problem, slowing the amount of bases that are coming out will also help stop the bloat in genetics categories where these bases do not belong.

You can find more information on the specifics of this issue in this suggestion: Click Here


Misc. Art-Specific Updates That Remain Unfixed:
Old decors that still don't work on posed lionesses, such as "Bone Crown".
Old decors no longer match the current art style, are blurry and lower quality, such as the zombie decors and old wings.
Female and male default line art could genuinely benefit from having their lines cleaned up, though not changed.
The giving tree and games art is still outdated.
Half of the explore encounters from January and March are still outdated.
Many non-event explore encounters still use old art, including the ridgebacks and effectively every explore encounter from Desert biome up.
Several event banners still use the old art.

AGAIN: I am not asking for the release of bases, markings and eyes to be halted fully. I am asking for them to be slowed in favor of addressing updates that players have been requesting for years. Please do not assume that's what I want.


HIGHLIGHTED POSTS:
Roxanne #BLM (#121082)
"I'm a bit indifferent to this suggestion. I like all the content being released, HOWEVER, I think they should slow it down if it means bigger things like ... you know ... male poses. Or Primordial Dwarves. You know.

I also think they should be using players suggestions if they're going to continue to add on a monthly basis, but that's a totally different conversation.
So many high supported, unused suggestions being ignored...."

Fern [side] (#163971)
"Tbh I've also been starting to feel frustrated with the fact that nearly every single month without fail, they release at least one (if not multiple) new base applicators, seemingly in lieu of more productive things. Do we really need this many app bases? Most genetics groups now have more applicator bases than breed-only bases, which is kind of silly for a breeding simulator. Most of all, poor Cream only has two non-combo BO bases throughout the entire group (and they're both in the same sub-category too) so most Cream applicators are not in high demand unless they're a factor for a combo base. Yet new apps for this already over-saturated group continue to be released more and more."

🫐Cali [Main] (#283676)
"I agree. Many updates such as new questlines, male poses, and the whack-a-snake have been pushed aside to deal with something that is unimportant to the game. Really. Bases are not required every month. Anyone who says otherwise is uneducated in this matter. We have too many bases and not enough GOOD, HEARTY UPDATES. Bases will pull less players into the game, whereas a new questline or even being able to play a new game might bring others in."

43831 (#43831)
"I think what also bothers me is that they don't actually keep up with the amount of bases and marks released, either. A lot of them end up missing entirely on mutations for months and months at a time. [...] Speaking of "not keeping up with markings", you know what, there's another meaning to that. This is actually a big problem with raffle marks as well. So many of them just straight up don't exist because either the owner is hoarding them, the owner of the original lioness went inactive, or whatever reason or combination of reasons the markings have gone extinct. This wasn't the case in the past, as they would only release a couple marks at a time and only once or twice every month or every other month, so the markings had time to spread and if not, they could track them easily to release another lioness, and even release those markings in another slot if they so choose. Now there are so many that they have to immediately move on to the next set and leave the others behind to die out. [...] also yeah lol my main's king is Nautilus also and I'm also a Cream fan and literally all you really have to work with is Ivory and Cherry Blossom for CLCSS and for me personally I'm kind of over pink/blue lions."

If you don't support, I'd like to know why. I appreciate constructive criticism over a simple "no".



This suggestion has 279 supports and 21 NO supports.



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Edited on 10/02/23 @ 02:31:21 by [♰] Yharnam (#112370)

qDuchp (#235234)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2021-09-30 02:01:18
Slow would be really nice so the Lioden Community has a long time to respect the new content that has been released. Although understanding fast release would add a lot to the game with everything but it could eventually disrupt the tc with all the changing prices - as well as someone who may work their ass off getting something to sell, only for it to be devalued when they achieve it.

I am for slow release for the time and respect needed for new content to be appreciated individually. This is such a beautiful game!



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🦇 citats 🦇 (#143917)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2021-09-30 06:33:19
I wouldn't even mind if they only added new apps for the events, I also think that the addition of all the new common bases/BO bases is kind of overwhelming, especially because they seem very similar to the bases that already exist.

I really love all the new decors, crafts, backgrounds, & art updates for sure! They're all beautiful and impressive and the artists & coders do amazing work here on Lioden and Wolvden. I just think all the base releases are overwhelming. :)

Edit: I'm glad you made a post about this because I've been thinking the same thing for the past two months or so <3 I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels the same way.



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Edited on 30/09/21 @ 06:35:38 by citats (#143917)

[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-09-30 11:49:15
@Pindior (#235234) :: Thank you for your support and feedback. I feel largely the same. I barely have a chance to get to enjoy the content that comes out before the newest, shiniest content overshadows the last batch.

@citats (#143917) :: Thank you for your support and feedback. Truthfully speaking, I wouldn't mind if they added more breed-only bases if they added them in places that're truly hurting for quality content, such as the entire of cream genetics, and a couple of the light groups. I hope that people don't misunderstand. I do genuinely love the content coming out. But it's coming out too fast, and too much at once, with little of it going where it really is needed.

I had conversations with people over the last several months about this, and figured I should at least try to see if I can get a platform going for people to talk about their feelings around it.



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🐝 TANSYCLOUD
[he/him] (#178319)


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Posted on
2021-09-30 14:26:02
I'm having a hard time keeping up with the new markings, bases and eye colors... It's overwhelming and I do agree that the new appearances should be slowed down, a big haul every so often doesn't bother me but I went on a hiatus to come back to like 10 new bases, 20 new skin colors, and it's just a lot to process.



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🌈:potato:🌈 (#218919)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2021-09-30 14:28:13
This is a great suggestion! As much as we all love new markings and bases, we need these sorts of things to happen to! 💕



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🥚Alato
[MaroonBeet3bo] (#141316)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2021-09-30 16:03:43
100% support. I



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♥ pizza boy (#180419)


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Posted on
2021-10-01 20:47:01
give us male poses and primordial dwarfism before base bombs pls



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Sprigatito G1 Deca (#169873)

Amorous
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Posted on
2021-10-02 00:58:43
I'm looking at everything that was on the list that was supposed to be over the 'next few months to a year' and we have:

- "Spirited" male pose with compatible decors
- Karma encounters expansion
- New enemies
- New mutations
- Mukombero Adventure
- July event rehaul
- Usual event content, no change!
- Usual decor, bases, marking content, no change!
- Eye update (removing integrated lineart for future eyes, such as goat pupil, no pupil, etc.)—this will not affect how the current eyes look, unless you'd like it to. :D
- We are debating submutations, e.g. allowing achromia, piebald, etc. on Primal (Smilus). It is not 100% certain to happen in 2021 due to the rehaul.

Of all of these we have received:
- July event rehaul [Which turned out rather poorly]
-New enemies [just with events]
- Usual event content, no change! [I don't consider sameness to be a huge deal?]
- Usual decor, bases, marking content, no change! [Got a lot of this]
- Eye update [This too]

We still haven't received a male pose which people have been asking for, for years. There's been no new mutations (I'm not counting the Black Friday ones everyone expects], no new karma encounters, no Mukombero adventure, no extra information on the submutations (though they did say that point was iffy).

While I am appreciative of what we've received, it just doesn't seem like what we were expecting. I get it, bases and markings are neat but I want something new new. I want the male poses, I want new muts; I want a July event people really enjoy, and a new adventure. As of now the only available adventure is the demiurge one and that was released over 2 years ago. As of now I'm genuinely feeling burnt out because all I do is get on, breed 15-20 lionesses, hope for good cubs, and thats it. I want more to do and more to see, more interactive content. And while bases and markings are nice, we're absolutely getting inundated with them.

I absolutely 100% support stopping the base/marking fest and implementing other things (poses, muts, adventures, etc) and doing that whole overhaul like they said with muts, poses, etc.




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Edited on 02/10/21 @ 00:59:11 by Incineroar G1 x4 Rosette (#169873)

[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-10-02 01:50:12
@Incineroar G1 x4 Rosette (#169873) :: Thank you so much for the breakdown of what we have and haven't gotten, and for your input. It really does feel like the abundances of bases, markings and eyes are just here to keep us busy. But I think a lot of Lioden's userbase is tired of being promised things then hearing nothing.

I agree. I finished the Crater Adventure back when it was first introduced - and I have my own gripes on why I think it's very poorly made and very bad for players on mobile or bad connections - and I want something new. I've completely stopped using the default male because it's showing its age so badly.

I feel you. I like the things we've gotten, but it's not what players were promised. I'm feeling the burnout too...



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Lou (#169369)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2021-10-02 23:49:02
I am also feeling the burnout..
And I really want the recode but I am starting to feel like it may take 3-4 years.
wolvden apparently was announced as to be expected in 2019..
I saw a past conversation of such on another pet site
all these new bases and eyes feel like a bandaid on a growing problem.
I support this suggestion 100%

also the july apps ordeal made me very close to leaving as I felt the admins just wanted our money.. and didn't truly care.
"here's an idea, sell gold beetle ;) " -xylax
why yes.. I definetly have monry to burn buying gold beetle during a pandemic in order to sell it to have 15k sb for those overprised apps.




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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-10-03 00:04:26
@BILL the G1 Cracked (#169369) :: Thank you for the support and input. I'm sorry to hear about the July issue. I felt much the same. The pandemic has wrung people out, and the stress shouldn't transfer into their gameplay here. Lioden has - as long as I've been here - been accessible to everyone regardless of their financial situation, so seeing the callous nature toward players is a concern.

I don't mind waiting for the recode. But art isn't code.



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🔥 Hyd (#236925)


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Posted on
2021-10-03 05:18:26
totally support!
a ton of eyes, bases, markings get released every year, and, don't get me wrong, the artists and coders do magnificent job in keeping the game beautiful with all of this content, but really, do we need a ton of bases which have no use? i understand some people use bases just for aesthetic reasons, but i personally think it would've been better if the bases actually had some more use.
it's easy to get overwhelmed by new content every month, especially for a new player.

edit: grammar



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Edited on 03/10/21 @ 05:18:59 by ʜɪɢʜᴡᴀʏ ꜱᴛᴀʀ (#236925)

Verridith [g1
stellar/panda] (#407)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2021-10-03 06:51:40
I haven't offered support or no support of this yet, because... well, honestly, as a player and as an artist I see both sides as equally valid. xD

On one hand, bases aren't that complex to do. With someone of Xy's caliber and speed, he can probably whip out ten bases for every pose in a day; eyes would be simplicity itself, and marking recolors take minutes at a time (trust me, I've done enough of em!). I have very little doubt that other art projects are getting worked on each and every day, and new bases/marking colors/eyes/etc are probably spread throughout as warm ups and relaxing things. I know my own base-making adventures are usually relaxation techniques for me!

That being said... I am super super SUPER excited for male poses, hunting redux, the coding rehaul, and all the new art that entails. I'm really reaaaally hoping it's still happening this year, but I understand that things like this take time. Especially for something that's as awfully important as a whole new pose for our main kings and submales! I can't even imagine all the incomprehensible hours that need to go into not only drawing the lines and making the bases, markings, etc fit, but all that decor! Even with the team of multiple artists like LD has. It's astounding the amount of art in this game already.

Another thing to think about: If they were to slow or put a complete pause on new content to work on old content, I can't help but feel it would radically change the economy. Especially where app sales and event decor are concerned. I fear changing how things are done in such an old game would rock LD's world, and maybe not in a good way?

I'll continue to keep an eye on this topic, but I'm still unsure if I'm going to hit the support or the no support button. We'll see!



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[△] Nadir (#108458)

Prophet
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Posted on
2021-10-03 15:54:39
@Verridith [g1striped stellar] (#407) :: Thank you for your input. I absolutely agree that it's a monumental task, though I see more to adding bases and markings than just fluff to keep the community busy. I think it needs more care to how it's done, if it's going to continue.

However, I need to re-iterate:

1. I'm not asking for a complete pause. It's mentioned several times in the original suggestion. I'm asking for a return to how things were prior to these last few months. With major bases, markings and so on being added every other month, and decors in between.

2. Players have been given a lot of content in these last few months to play with for a while. We're obviously coming into Halloween and December, and those are major base and marking app months, so I wouldn't want them impeded.

3. One of the issues highlighted is neglect of content where it needs to go. People have voiced having issue with the abundance of applicator bases rather than breed-only bases. In the original suggestion, Cream was mentioned in particular as a genetics group that has been neglected for a very long time, and had bases shoehorned in where they don't belong. People have also voiced wanting to see them start to use more player suggested bases, and I personally want to see player bases included in suggestions.

I'll wait a bit more and see if this needs another revision. Thank you for your time, and no matter what you choose, I appreciate you stopping by.

EDIT: This year has actually seen a major change in how bases, markings and eyes have been released. This in itself is a major change to an old game. However, I hope it does not continue at this pace, as content bloat is another concern, which can cause value loss in long-term projects.



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Edited on 03/10/21 @ 15:58:24 by [△] Nadir (#108458)

Wossuns 27 //
ZERO-DAWN (#328209)

Hateful
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Posted on
2022-08-21 11:24:19
I agree with that it devalues the new base's, markings etc, I think slowing things down would be a good idea tbh



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