I dont want wolvden coming into lioden and I feel like this would cause it because everyone would be obsessed with G1 studs way I see it if you want a hertiageless king just buy/save up for a groupie or wait until they come around so no support

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For now, I say I'd support.
Of course, NCLs over 2.11yrs can't be sex changed, so you wouldn't be able to sex change quite a few you came across. Heritageless lions aren't a huge thing people are concerned with as long as the stud/lioness is clean if they prefer clean lions.
Of course, you'd have to apply the MoDs to the heritageless lions if you planned to sex change, for a mut/heritage rep for example, but things like patches and piebalds in the TC only go for like 1-2gb most of the time [20+ during black friday and a week after if they were one of the new ones].
Primals aren't my favourite, i despise them a lot, actually, and sometimes even G2 primals go for 800sb..

Edit:
And I thought you could sex change them as long as they're not an adult mut e.g a female adult primal groupie, so it's a tad bit surprising to learn you can't.

[I am open to being talked out of supporting, or making my support firm; so i'll have the topic subscribed for any replies.]

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1 (#211728) thanks for your input! i already sort of addressed that in the first section, but i went ahead and made it clearer since i don't think my point was getting across properly. i really don't think that will happen, since g1 mutated kings will remain expensive and the lioden community considers mutations and (for clean breeders) cleanliness much, much more important than generations.

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No support, sorry!

The main reason why heritageless lions cannot be sex-changed is not NCLs - its the special raffle females. Ones from the weekly raffle. They start at 2 years old and, if they were able to be sex-changed, people would immediately do so and overbreed them for the new markings and bases - making the new mark drop down in value right away. They are already dropping very quick, with crunchy worms and ochre gnawrocks allowing the users to quickly clone their raffle females and king those clones - but at least now, its a bit more expensive and slower to do, making the mark drop in value a bit slower.
Ill put an example. A new base released - if it was a female, it has at most 4 rolls to pass in the first litter of that female!
4 cubs possible total. Crunchy Worm used, Ochre Gnawrock used, Buffalo Scrotum used, making the value of the breeding, total, over 50 GB. The base might pass, or the items may fail and it may not pass. Only a small % chance for it to pass, if it does, only 1-2 of that bases are born - it stays rare for a while.
However, if the lioness is able to be sex-changed right away. 1 GB value of the sex-changer, and then, the king made from that lioness can breed 100+ lionesses in one day, limited only by a user's territory space. Rich users can afford 200+ territory. Each lioness having 1+ cubs, at least half will have 2+. So, 200+ cubs in one day. Many more rolls for a new base, many more new bases born in one day. All for the cheap price of 1 GB to sex-change a female. Price pn the new base collapses, because dozens of it are born - and people WILL choose that route, because its cheaper than using items on a female and cloning her.

Heritageless kings are already possible, and your first argument isnt really relevant because all mutations need to be applied AFTER the looks heir is kinged? Mutation status always follows that of the heir - so, many people just king their long-heritaged special-looks kings, then king G1/G2 mutations and choose to keep old king's looks. Volia, a special looks king with no heritage! Check out my Temporal heritageless to see what I mean. He's a son of my lioness Nijali, but heritage-replaced and now, heritageless.

Overall, what you're suggesting is already possible, but requiers a few more steps/investments to do. You suggestion is basically to skip those and make it cheaper - which, even though Im a Hard Mode player and can only stud to heritageless studs, I dont support, sorry. Making things cheaper to aquire have never done any good for market, on any games. Ever. Cheaper means more people do it, more people do it means more competition, more competitions means prices drop in order to win clients, prices drop means more cubs are born, more cubs are born means cub market suffers from even more unwanted cubs.

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No support for reasons already stated.

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Mad Hyena 29080 gotta admit, i completely forgot about the raffle lionesses, which is embarrassing and a totally fair point. i absolutely wouldn’t want them to be sex changeable. maybe they could come with some kind of flag preventing that, or just pre-hunted if that would be difficult to code. i’m aware that mutations are always applied after kinging, what i was trying to argue is that there won’t be a huge influx of heritageless kings due to the difficulty of getting g1 lions with passable mutations. i get where you’re coming from with worrying about prices dropping, but the biggest change from this would be the groupie market, which seems to already be pretty unbalanced. after november, groupies are posted for high prices that don’t seem to match their actual value. whether or not you think this is a bad thing is up to you, but i think if g1 males have low value then they should be easier to acquire. i don’t really see how that change would result in more cubs.

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I personally feel that the raise in price in heritageless groupies is only fair and good for market!
It is only natural - something is cheaper when its available and raises in price as time goes and there is less of it. That's the very bases of "restocking" market. Same with all breeding items, that are cheaper during months they're sold in and get more expensive as time goes. Heritageless males dont raise in price as much - buffalo scrotums go from 5 GB per to currently 30 GB, and last time I bought a groupie it was 2 GB for one, now maybe up to 5 GB per, but Im sure you can still find them cheaper if you just post an advertisment. You can get one for basically 1 event item in every event of the year, just play the game and you'll have enough.

The issue with raffle females is the primary one. It is the reason why Adult Sex Changer was added years after Cub Sex Changer, and the limits put on Adult Sex Changer are mostly due to raffle lioness issue. And the way it is, currently, is the only way I see about this situation. There would be many other issues that need to be adressed if heritageless lions were able to be sex changed. The age limit is one. How would it work with age? Generated NCLs start from 3 years of age which is past what adult sex changer can be used on. So what would it be? Only able to be used on chased NCLs that are younger? Change the age limit? Issues issues issues. There are so many things that need to be considered it's really too much trouble to change an existing item for it.

I wouldnt at all mind another way of getting heritageless males to replace kings with - I myself am actively using that feature! But it'd much rather prefer it be a new gameplay feature - something like, very rarely finding one in explore or something, as long as its kept reasonably rare and not push heritageless males down to being too common - but not changing how Adult Sex Changer works.

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Maybe make it exclusively that the sex changers only work on NCLs under 4yrs of age?

The main issue is the raffle lioness, and they're extremely expensive considering how quickly they're bred [ and considering this they're bred even more during feb due to the YB, as well as hybrids].

New gameplay feature

Ok, after reading the past few comments and thinking about the sex changers for a bit, I was thinking that maybe your king would come across a lake that has the ability to sex change one lion/ess. Of course your king cannot drink from this, otherwise your pride would have no King and this would be a cheat way for people to get their new King up without paying.
The options would be:

Drink from the Lake - Nothing happens
Take some home - Like on the sex changers, you grab a leaf and put some of the liquid in it; however instead of blue and pink it's a purple colour/clear.
Ignore - This is by clicking on 'explore' again.

OR
[second option change]
Use on: [drop-down menu with only those that are sex-changeable] - Condition is that it can't be used on Sex-specific muts and they must be below 3yrs or up to 4yrs at most for this item.

I think the item either has to be used immediately or if the original second option idea is implemented, it has to be used before next ro or else it vanishes.

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Instead of a complex sex-changing encounter, why not just get an adolescent male cub from explore? Same as any generated NCL, but adolescent male - like a groupie that would be a lot easier to implement? Although it would have to be fairly rare, so it doesnt affect the market too much!

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Yeah!
maybe have it so you have to battle him a bit or maybe show off some moves/impress him like a NCL, but it's more male-based rather than claiming a female.

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honestly yeah that sounds even better

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