Posted by The Giving Tree hints at a problem

Dinoman (#2747)

Usual
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Posted on
2023-05-31 03:07:47
I came back to Lioden after one of my several month hiatuses as is my normal routine and what I've seen has left me confused and distraught.

Cubs. So many cubs. TOO many cubs. Literal legions of cubs huddled under this godforsaken tree, waiting to be taken away. But for every cub taken, dozens more take its place.

I've been playing Lioden almost since it came out and in all my time playing this game, I do not remember a single moment in this game's history where the giving tree could hold onto cubs for more than an hour. This backlog is unprecedented, and what's more, what people are leaving there, and the low prices people are now charging for high tier marked and mutated lions, are showing something even more insidious.

I've discussed with people in the chat how insane the giving tree currently is. I just received a female adolescent with a squeaky clean heritage and TWO Tier 6 markings. Another player pointed out that they had gotten an adolescent female with a patched mutation and entirely clean heritage.

These are lions that should be worth hundreds, if not thousands of silver beetles. And people are tossing them into the tree like they're some regular two tier one marking cubs from an NCL. Meanwhile those trying to sell similar lions in the Trading Center, those priced for what these mutations or markings should be worth aren't selling, and people are undercutting by as low as a fourth of those prices.

I don't wish to fearmonger but I think the game may finally be at its breaking point. I think we finally, simply, just have too many lions. If we're at the point that people are treeing mutations and some of the most expensive markings in the game, and so few cubs are being taken that we now have a backlog of LITERALLY THOUSANDS, we've surpassed critical mass on lions, meaning their value has tanked to nothing, which means the entire website's economy could follow soon after since the entire economy is based on the breeding, trading, and studding of lions.



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bella|G3 Slender X4
Rosette (#320259)


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Posted on
2023-05-31 03:12:03
Hi!
Yes, it is true. But some people like to purely just give away mutations or rosettes if they don't have space to other people!



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Beau[Main] (#140349)

Punk
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Posted on
2023-05-31 03:18:43
There is a major issue with lioden over saturating the market these days, we're getting dozens of markings, and a new bases constantly, its become an issue where once you start breeding something its immediately out. There's no point to keeping ANYTHING.

I've seen back logs like this for male cubs before, but not for every category, and while I'm all for "free cubs" it feels as those you're right. This IS a problem.

Theres also a generalized player base issue, people are treeing every single cub they have because it's suddenly become taboo to chase them, even if they aren't selling. I've been chasing primals and primal fangs since my kings started throwing them and I've never had such an issue with people being astonished at the idea before, a majority of which comes from lioden tiktok. It's a nightmare.



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🐝 Ginger_Bee 🐝 (#167127)

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Posted on
2023-05-31 03:41:48
Yes to everything in this post, I've been here for a loooooong time (side account is actually my main account, I joined in 2013) and I used to see the tree empty quite a bit, now it's constantly full and honestly you'll never truly get something terrible from the tree. Which is great for people that can't afford the better lions, BUT I do agree with your point about expensive lions just being thrown into the tree with no regard.

A strange phenomenon that's been happening is people being shamed for throwing potato cubs into the tree simply because, I dunno, people think it's unfair? Like, you're getting a cub for nothing more than a random item from your hoard, plus it's random, not every cub should be incredible. It's luck of the draw! You're bound to get something crappy every now and again, but like you said, it's not happening as often.

Which to me is kind of bizarre? I was so used to getting potato cubs from the tree that when I started to get decent cubs (I literally got a demiurge based cub just yesterday) it really threw me off and I've started to notice a pattern.
Cubs with special bases or rare markings just....aren't really selling like they used to, the market is crashing at an alarming rate because of the influx of new markings and bases coming out too fast for people to keep up, so when a new base/mark comes out people go NUTS and that's all they want to sell (apart from the constant hex dawns I keep seeing, that still hasn't died yet) until the next hot new thing comes out in a month - which I think is more telling of the pacing of new marks/bases coming out rather than the player base.



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Terrinthia [G1,
semi-frozen] (#97101)


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Posted on
2023-05-31 04:22:45
I don't really use the giving tree, on either side. I used to abandon some cubs there, usually colorbombs with either a few bold markings or 7+ medium opacity ones. But now I just chase them, because the odds of them being taken are so low. I'd rather sell a special base or mutie for dirt cheap, just to feel better about it probably not being deleted.

My stance regarding potato cubs (imo, cubs with plain bases and very few visible markings - like, 7 mane markings to me is a potato) is that it's fair to place them in there, but what's the point if they're just gonna get chased or re-abandoned? I mean, yeah, it's pretty much a free cub so you shouldn't *expect* something good every time. Of course not.

But boy does it feel bad seeing hundreds or thousands of cubs clogging up the system. The only thing that effectively clears the damn thing out is a hybrid drop, and we can't rely on players to do that as often as it needs to be cleared :l



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Dinoman (#2747)

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Posted on
2023-05-31 08:24:25
You're very correct Coffee Lover, the issue is that I think this is beyond just peoples' generosity. People are throwing cubs of all types and rarities at the tree because for some reason or other. Either they don't want to chase them, or they've tried to sell them and they failed to do so.

But more than that, people aren't taking them. Again, there has never been a point in Lioden's history where the tree has been this backlogged. The last time I played just after the New Year the tree might have a few dozen cubs at a time and they'd be gone before long. Now there are thousands. People are taking fewer than are being provided.

For people to not want the chance at functionally free cubs is unheard of. The reasons? I can't begin to guess except for the fact that there's tens of thousands of lions between peoples' prides at this point. It could be something as simple as people are just oversaturated on lions and don't want them anymore, or as Ginger_Bee proposed, new genes are coming out so quickly that by the time people breed the last set, new genes are out and the old genes become worthless.

Whatever's happening, it could very well bring down the game's entire economy with it. And worst still, I don't know what solutions can be pursued without running the risk of backlash from the community.



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🐝 Ginger_Bee 🐝 (#167127)

Angelic
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Posted on
2023-05-31 11:37:24
One solution I could possibly think of, is making a limit to how many cubs can be thrown to the tree in general, so like, only 500 of each type of cub can exist in the tree at a time before they get entirely wiped from the game or it pops up with an error message saying 'You can't throw a cub to the Giving tree right now, it's full!'
I know they eventually get wiped from the game, not sure if it's with each rollover or not, can't remember to be honest



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Romana (#14743)

Witcher
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Posted on
2023-05-31 12:14:29
As someone who breeds a lot, I’ve only wound up chasing clean muties and patches because there’s no market for them, and they are a bitch to sell. Like, I have an OG groupie at a cheap price sitting on my side account for over a week without any offers on her.

I usually wind up hoarding cubs for fodder until they’re a year old and then chase them, because frankly there’s too damn many lions in the game as is.

There really needs to be more incentives in chucking worthless cubs and lionesses. I’ve seen people suggest turning in cubs to the gorilla in exchange for something small - like a few SB or a random herb or small hoard item. Or just trophies for “chased 100 cubs” or something, like the lioness quest.

Edit: Or make something like the star gate thing in July a full time thing, that takes every cub older than five months and NCL lionesses an hour after their cooldown, with modest rewards (like herbs or nesting material to start with) that ramp up in worth once you “donate” very high amounts of lions- like hundreds or thousands. It’s not that hard a problem to fix with resources the site already has, which makes it even more frustrating that lion values are so low now and nothing really sustainable has been done about it



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Edited on 31/05/23 @ 12:22:01 by Romana (#14743)

venna (#15577)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2023-05-31 12:21:00
totally agree!! i am guilty of this, i’ve thrown a lot of mutated and bo base + markings cubs in there because i didn’t want to chase and knew someone would enjoy them but also that they’d be near impossible to sell. the problem is that it’s so hard to sell anything anymore and even when you do it’s usually not worth the effort you put in. i think slowing down the constant new bases and markings would help, as well as if people would just chase worthless lions (i’m sorry but nobody wants your 1 mane marking common cream based cub ). we have an overpopulation problem imo



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🐝 Ginger_Bee 🐝 (#167127)

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Posted on
2023-05-31 12:23:10
I usually sell 10 cubs in a bundle as fodder in the tc for 250sb and they sell pretty fast! Just as a tip if anyone is struggling with getting rid of poopy fodder cubs! But yes I totally agree, there's an overpopulation issue and the economy clearly can't keep up.



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Thalath {Side} (#43831)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-05-31 17:30:49
I actually have an old suggestion on my main account for just full deleting cubs from the tree every weekly reset/update (Friday). This was back when there was only a few hundred cubs in the tree every week. Now there's thousands.

NEedless to say, I support that something needs to be done lol

We could use a Gorilla Enclave revamp because the thing literally doesn't work, nor does it do what the original suggestion for it intended, but that is never going to happen at this rate.



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Edited on 31/05/23 @ 17:31:55 by Thalath {Side} (#43831)

Dinoman (#2747)

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Posted on
2023-06-01 00:51:18
Reworking the Gorilla Enclave definitely seems like the perfect first step. This solves the "problem" of 'potato cubs' that people hate since they're not drowning in markings by giving us a place to put them, and gives us a way to "get rid" of cubs that don't meet the impossible standards of the gorillas...and of the player base.

Not sure what can be done to fix the actual economy itself though. It runs on supply and demand, but both supply and demand are provided by the players and there's no real way to stem the flow of lions in a way that won't cause backlash. (People hate the disease system in Wolvden that puts both cubs and adults at risk, for example, but likely does help keep numbers down and thus there's always some demand) We will likely have to persist with the reality that even with an alternative to the giving tree, Lioden is probably permanently past lion critical mass and lions simply won't sell for much anymore.

Another thing that could at least stem the flow of cubs is to give sub males more use as well, giving people a reason to want to hold onto really good male cubs rather than toss any out that will be old by the time their king can retire. Personally I think, in a bit of a counterproductive bit since it will make MORE cubs, they should be able to breed and be studded out. It's strange that they can't when in real life all males of a coalition can breed, yet Wolvden lets all wolves breed when in real life only the alpha pair does so. Letting sub males breed adds some value to them besides occasional free items and training up an heir, though it doesn't help much given just how many male cubs will be born overall and how choking the number of sub male slots are. A more functional use for young males would also be nice, but it's unlikely.



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bella|G3 Slender X4
Rosette (#320259)


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Posted on
2023-06-02 02:25:40
I just got a female primal fangs-



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Terminal Nostalgia (#29183)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-06-02 13:24:03
It seems that ever since the albino breeding event, the tree has been absolutely groaning with cubs. Then we had the ten year anniversary and last month’s punk breeding challenge. In six months we’ve had three events that encouraged mass breeding but no effective sink for all the new cubs that has generated.
I’ve enjoyed those events, so certainly wouldn’t want to see them go away, but we could definitely do with an added mechanic for deleting cubs from the game that gives us a bit of incentive to do so.
Also since December I’ve seen the value of everything I breed just tank. Pretty cubs that sold easily aren’t even selling when they hit their first heat anymore and I’m selling the good stuff at a fraction of what they were worth before. (And that doesn’t mean anyone is buying them!)



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grassman 🌱 |
project (#243884)


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Posted on
2023-06-02 13:55:52
the influx of new players who are willing to continue to lower the price of what they sell doesn't really help either, along with the tanking of the food market. before its been stable at 100x large food carcasses for 1000sb or 1gb and now its around 60ish and many of the food items are small carcasses,



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Ahri [G1 12/15 nrlc] (#356004)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2023-06-02 15:24:23
This is definitely happening. I recently got a 8/15 nrlc female from the tree, short Gen too. The thing is, I’m not sure how the devs could fix it



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Edited on 02/06/23 @ 16:43:48 by Ahri (#356004)







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