Posted by a method for obtaining ligers

starling (#26317)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2023-06-11 20:14:55
to preface this, i understand that any mutation of this kind is incredibly art intensive, & the anniversary stream indicated that the next intended hybrid -- however many potential years away -- would be a jaglion, so i don't make this suggestion with any sense of immediacy at all. all of our current hybrids (or planned hybrids) follow the formula of "female lion x male [other big cat]", for pretty good reason - it's what works most intuitively with our breeding system. but as we near the end of the roster of known hybrids that would fit this format, i thought i'd propose something that might expand our options here & breathe new life into the submale system.

MY BRIEF PITCH FOR LIGERS AS THEIR OWN SEPARATE THING
the difference between a tigon (female lion x male tiger) and a liger (male lion x female tiger) is not only a semantic detail. for one thing, a liger lacks growth inhibitors and can come to be fairly gigantic, easily surpassing both of its parents. (i don't condone the practice breeding ligers in real life -- it's surrounded with a host of problems, health issues among them.) below is a very rough mockup to illustrate that the markings / base wouldn't necessarily be too redundant with our existing tiger hybrid's.



METHOD OF OBTAINING - SUBMALE LINEAGE
on completion of a submale patrol, there is a very slim chance that something to the nature of the following text will appear at the end of the results:

"In his travels, [SUBMALE] encountered a peculiar feline! She introduced herself as a ‘tiger’ in an ‘unlicensed roadside zoo.’ The two struck up a conversation, during which [SUBMALE] boldly offered to wrest the cage open for her. The tigress smiled sadly and assured him he was very heroic, but her lifetime of captivity had rendered her unsuited to a life in the wilderness. They touched noses through the dilapidated metal barrier and parted ways, but the thought of her lingered in [SUBMALE]’s mind..."

(my illustration just for fun)


following this event, there is a very slim chance that the litter your next breeding produces will contain a single 'newborn' (0 months old) liger cub. you'll receive a message along the lines of:

“[LIONESS] admits that [SUBMALE] returned late from patrol in the dark of night, carrying a peculiar cub. He entrusted it to her care, claiming a captive tigress had passed it to him through a covert gap in her enclosure, wishing for it to grow up wild. Awash in the emotions of her own recent birth, the nursing lioness didn't have the heart to say no.”

a peek at the cub’s lineage will reveal further truth of the situation – the submale is its sire.
i'm not sure if it's enough to sate inquisitive minds on this subject, but mentions of things like the 'covert gap' in the enclosure are meant to doubly allude to how the initial "deed" could've possibly transpired.

ideally, the chances of getting a liger cub would be about comparable to that of randomly getting another first-generation hybrid - however, unlike its predecessors, it wouldn't dilute the broader random mutations pool. you'd need the patrol encounter first to even trigger the chance of the cub appearing in a litter. my hopes would be that this could be something that could add relevance and value to the submale feature, considering male lions don't tend to be especially utilized as things stand, apart from as heirs to be kings.

ALTERNATE METHOD - KING LINEAGE
an idea utilizing your king as the sire instead could involve an escapee from the exotic pet trade. just for fun, i gave this tigress a tranquilizer dart ‘earring’ in my rough concept art below, to visually distinguish her from our other tiger friend in the wilderness (the tigon father).



there is a very slim chance your king could encounter this resilient character in explore. after a lifetime of captivity, she’s always seeking to gain more insight into wilderness survival. as with the Old Lioness npc, interacting with her appropriately will give you a quest.

the tigress’ quest will task you to complete [x] number of submale patrols (possibly only the ones returning with food items?) – she’d like to see how another solitary big cat such as herself takes down prey.

possibly, she could also ask you to complete a smaller number of successful hunts with your lionesses as well. this could help explain why she would later entrust her cub to one of them – she’s seen the social nature of lions in action, and she might even be familiar with some of your lionesses.

in any case, on completion of this quest, she will grant you a pretty decent material reward. some additional flavor text at the end will hint toward a second, much less guaranteed bonus: she’d like to spend some more time with you before leaving. you have a pleasant ambiguous hangout session, and she slips back off into the night.

with this, your next litter will have an incredibly small chance of containing a liger cub, which your king will be listed as the sire of. the nursing lioness will report that the tigress had briefly showed up to entrust her with it, for whatever reason – perhaps the tiger had wanted her half-lion cub to get the opportunity to grow up in a social setting; perhaps she wasn’t interested in raising cubs; perhaps, taken from her own mother as a newborn cub in an illegal pet trade, she wasn’t even sure how to.

thanks so much for reading, & feel free to let me know your thoughts or feedback. everything here is conceptual rather than stuff i want to put forth as concrete per se.



This suggestion has 278 supports and 16 NO supports.



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Edited on 13/06/23 @ 10:58:42 by starling (#26317)

Vulpine-Poltergeist (#1073)

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Posted on
2023-06-12 23:30:56
No support, mainly because submales being able to breed is an already rejected suggestion.

It's a very good idea, but the devs are already firm on subordinate males being unable to breed in any capacity.



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starling (#26317)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2023-06-13 04:08:25
@Vulpine-Poltergeist -- feel free to correct me, but i've always assumed that was a measure about submales not being able to pass on their own genetics, especially without being subject to limitations that would exist in lionesses, such as heat cycles / pregnancy. i intended this is a specific case where that might not apply!

first generation ligers, as with other first gen hybrids, would ignore submale's actual genetics in favor of a default "first generation" template. the only actual attribute that would be passed down from the submale is their lineage, and it would also be too much of a rare once-in-a-lifetime incident to be exploited.

i may be wrong and there's just a blanket ban on stuff like this because of some coding issue or something of that sort. I had included that alternate method in my original post in case the sub male method was inviable. I’d personally be open for this to not appear exactly as a standard breeding would - whatever’s most possible.



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Edited on 13/06/23 @ 08:37:07 by starling (#26317)

Vulpine-Poltergeist (#1073)

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Posted on
2023-06-13 10:50:25
To my knowledge, it's more of a blanket ban, though I don't really know if it's due to coding issues or due to the admins only wanting kings to be able to breed (though if memory serves it's the latter).

I definitely love the alternative method, but it may be hard to code in, especially since the liger cub wouldn't be the lioness' biological cub, but would still likely appear underneath her litter (I have no idea whether or not lineage has any tie-ins to how litters are shown and coded, but I wouldn't be too surprised), since cubs can't be placed anywhere besides with their mother (foster mother, in this case) until they're 5 months old in game,

Again, I do like this idea, but it could be difficult to implement depending on how the litter coding works, even without the submale being the father.



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starling (#26317)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2023-06-13 11:23:33
thanks so much, it’s definitely helpful to get feedback! I hadn’t considered that about the lineage surrounding the lioness. I’m honestly not too sure what is or isn’t a limitation of the coding, but maybe in the case that it is an issue, something like the cub being dropped off in your pride at 5 months old already a set amount of rollovers after the encounter, akin to reverse breeding? I’m not sure if that would be a weird solution



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mousecouch🕷️ (#21960)

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Posted on
2023-06-24 06:29:09
Maybe i’m totally missing the ball here, but I think the devs could go the Ashkarn route on this and make an admin account with a female tiger on it as a queen and have her be the G1 mother of Ligers. That way, the cubs actually do physically have a real in game mom and aren’t just spawned like leopons.



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Vulpine-Poltergeist (#1073)

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Posted on
2023-06-24 06:30:57
@mousecouch, I am in love with that idea.



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starling (#26317)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2023-06-24 06:39:34
@mousecouch - yes, that's what i was thinking by making specific tiger example characters!

i mostly just emphasized the father lineage because i would prefer for there to be some variability -- if only the mother shows up in the heritage, all firstgen ligers would automatically be clean g2 ones. of course, it wouldn't matter from a strictly gameplay standard how many generations it is or how inbred an individual hybrid is, but it's something that factors into the market value of existing first gen hybrids, and i personally think it'd be more interesting to preserve that.



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mousecouch🕷️ (#21960)

Buzzkill
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Posted on
2023-06-24 06:43:17
I do support the tying it to either king or submale heritage. Could go along the lines of “Your King/Sub hid his illegitimate cub in the nest of a nursing lioness. She was too tired from birth to notice until one of the cubs appeared different from the rest!”

I do wonder what they’ll do to introduce Jaglions and if they’ll ever give us these either. I know theoretically LD has been around for over a decade now, so I wonder when eventually they may even stop updating the game at all



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starling (#26317)

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Posted on
2023-06-24 06:55:14
i definitely wondered too! there's a possibility that we'll never 'get' to whatever hybrid comes after jaglion haha! i just proposed this because i believe in the anniversary livestream they mentioned that after jaglion they might go into hybrids involving primals, but i don't think we've necessarily exhausted all our options with 'regular' lion hybrids yet - unless there's a hard coding limitation involved with it of course.



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Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2023-07-31 14:20:45
My biggest issue with this is the fact it is a 2 part proccess. You have to patrol/explore and then breed to potentially have the cub. I think it could potentially be interesting to tie to submale patrolling, but the two part proccess is a bit much for me. I personally dont like it. Luckily we have plentiful time to figure it out, I do think eventually when all hybrids are added, this would be a good addition to the game, but to me this needs much more thought and a more straight forwards, one step process (like breeding OR patrolling or something). I wont support or not support, and I might come back with more suggestions or thoughts, but as of right now that is my take.



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Euzi {G1 Full BO
Stratosphere} (#77137)


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Posted on
2023-07-31 14:26:39
No support, we don't need another similar tigon hybrid and event.



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starling (#26317)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2023-08-01 18:44:33
@Corruptedhyena - If other people feel that way as well, I could see it simplified to a process where you get the submale patrol encounter and from that directly have a slim chance of having the weaned liger cub deposited into your pride a few rollovers over, in something akin to a reverse breeding, but with an NPC.



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[2x NHR G1
INTERSELLAR] (#394316)


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Posted on
2023-08-07 11:39:32
Support! I joined lioden quite late along with a ton and always dream of having another hybrid event! The rush and thrill of it all! Players dont often patrol their lions and hunt with lionesses, perhaps this will make submales less useless.

Loving the idea! keep it up



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Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2023-08-07 12:43:46
Other hybrids will come, but ligers are very questionable. I think something needs to be done with patrolling but the hybrid idea for it is very gray. There is a lot that simply wouldn't make sense, and more thought to the mechanics and secondary effects will need to be done before I, along with many others, will support ligers.



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[2x NHR G1
INTERSELLAR] (#394316)


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Posted on
2023-08-07 13:54:29
here to throw something that is even more complicated
Liliger
Liger Female X Male lion



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