Totally understand, Japhleti. Why can't people just be happy that there are such pretty lions to play with? It's all imaginary money anyway...

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I guess what we can do is look what would be the best for the game entirely.

I see enough complaints at my own ideas and everywhere on the forum how customs lost their value entirely, thanks to people only wanting specials. And indeed. If you dont have much stats, customs cannot stud any longer, this privilege having been taken by 'special' studs.

And if you think about it, this can be a danger to the income. Since raffle lionesses can be won by SB (nowadays they even sell for SB on the market), however for customs you have to pay real money -either bought yourself or by buying GB for SB.

So all in all in my opinion the specials need to be spread much faster in order to turn the people's attention to the customs again. Yes, specials will be always specials, since you can only get them by breeding, but one cannot let them rule the market entirely... Plus, customs are made by donating to the site. So I guess the one that needs to be supported by the site should be clear.

Spread the specials a little faster with 3 or 5 winners at a time for the same coat and marking combinations.

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Nobody wins, because there will always be 2 sides.

In this case

Side 1: Where people wish to keep them rare

Side 2: Where people wish to have them and sell them for billions of Gold Beetles.

If Side 1 finds out that a special marking or coat got bombed like the Cream Lighter they get mad, if Side 2 found out that the person wished to keep the marking rare, they get mad and harass the winner.

Nobody would win, at all. When the first lions came it was pretty normal, but as more were released things got tenser and tenser and tenser.

Doesn't matter if there are 5, 10, thousands of winners. Those 2 different sides will always be on collapse. Because maybe 5/10 winners that got the same copy would give the marking away, sell it, etc and would get side 1 pissed off, they would say that they were only thinking of gold-beetles.

If the other half kept the marking rare, Side 2 would get pissed and some people of side 2 would start harassing the winner.

I agree, yet disagree at some points.

I believe that special lionesses should be put down. Things are getting way out of control.

Now I hear you all say "But its not the lionesses!" yes it is not, it is the people.

Nothing is good or bad, just depends on the way you use it. This is getting people pissed off, and some people believe (including me) that it would be best if the lioness raffle was gone.

Soon side 1 and side 2 will start harassing each other because of the big disagreement.

There will be no WIN WIN situation no matter what.

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This is why we need to choose the one side: The side of Lioden and the game.
Which one would bring more balance to the game itself? Which one would balance the market? Which one would bring more income?

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I don't like it when someones says "nobody wins"- it always feels inaccurate, deceptive, and/or lazy. I understand that you can't please everyone, but saying no one wins? *sigh* That's a topic for another day though.

Rib, I understand your dislike of specials, but I'm pretty sure they are here to stay. People would be furious if we suddenly got rid of them, and I don't really like the idea of just making them custom either. I understand the points you are trying to make as well, but this isn't such a simple black and white issue so I am compelled to disagree with you. Sorry in advance.

I'm just going to start with the "keeping them rare" scenario. Long story short- that is IMPOSSIBLE. Even right now, with one winner per week- that winner has the power to hoard their new mark/coat indefinitely. Other players may harass them, but no one will force them to sell cubs. Problem with that is- next week's raffle could have the exact same mark. One player can choose to hoard a mark/color, but the game administrators can easily sidestep it by having future raffle girls with said mark. Eventually the mark will get around- once it is out amongst more players, it will become more common. Currently, it just takes a lot longer to do this because it's so easy to hoard them with just one winner per week. As it is, it may take months for a new mark to really get around- and in that time span, there would have been several more released (all causing that same trouble in the market). They will still become less rare, but it's a painstaking process.

Now lets say there are 5 winners- even if by some rare chance one player got 2 by using their spare account, that is still 4 different people to do whatever with an extremely rare lady. Ideally, it would make sense for all the winners to get together and form a little cartel/alliance- everyone hoards the mark, until they are ready to sell it. Problem is it almost never works. We end up with a game called the "Prisoners Dilemma" (named because it is commonly used to interrogate groups of criminals). See, the obvious, best choice would be for the group to hoard the mark, but all it will take to ruin that plan is for 1 person to sell it- and why not? They'd get a much higher payout if they are the only one selling- it all boils down to whoever is the first to jump the gun. If one starts to sell, they will all have to sell or risk losing the opportunity of such high profits. Even though it is possible to form this alliance, it almost always fails because being the first to bail is just too tempting. We may still get some hoarding, but it will be nearly impossible to really keep that going, especially if next week has 5 more girls with the same mark.

Basically, the idea to "keep these rare" is foolish, short-sighted, unfair/selfish, and unrealistic. I know that sounds harsh, but that is the way I usually see it. I understand if you want to make them harder to obtain, but a temporary monopoly isn't the way to do that. You could make it a little harder to pass these marks, but that is another topic for another day.

"Everyone wants to have one and make a million GB." Isn't that the whole point of a raffle? Of course everyone wants to win! Obviously, not everyone can win, or no one would care about it. With one winner, you have your own monopoly that you can charge anything for. Even with 5 winners, you can still charge quite a bit because these are the first ones with the mark! This is a fast paced market- only the first few with this rare mark/color will be making a lot of easy money, and that is only because they happened to get a hold of it first. So many people want to make a profit, that they scramble to be one of those first (causing our hectic market), and sadly, not all of them can actually profit. This is, essentially, the reason the marks become less rare over time- everyone that can get them will breed them, once there are more, they cost less. It balances out. Some players may make a lot, and lots of players will try to profit as well, but not everyone can do that. The difference in the number of winners affects just how hectic things get before the market reaches an equilibrium (point where mark is no longer rare, but still a nice bonus to have). One winner- (skipping the hoarding part since that could take a while) original winner sells cub for as much as they want (monopolies can do that). Someone pays the price- so there are now 2 people who own and can produce that mark. They can still charge a lot for cubs, but not as much as that first one- still some great profit though, and eventually this trickles down as competition increases. Now lets do the polar opposite- everyone wins the raffle. There is no need to scramble to get a cub because you already have it, nor can you sell it for a lot because everyone else has it too. It's still nice, but we've basically skipped the entire craze. Where's the fun in that? Having a few winners will allow for some competition right from the start- it may still be a little crazy, but that's part of the fun and excitement. It won't be as hectic and should balance out much faster.

Sure you could get rid of the raffle entirely, but I don't think you could get rid of the specials. There would need to be another viable solution to obtaining them. (yet another topic for another day). I kinda like the raffle idea, just not with it's current monopoly. I would be open to other ideas (besides just making them custom since they are no longer special at all then), but completely changing the system is something that requires a lot of in-depth thought and analysis.

Arrgh, this post is so long, but I really wanted to fully express my thoughts on this. I'm sorry if it's too much trouble to read, once I get started, I just can't make it short. Took forever to write too...

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Thank you weasel you probably explained it better than I could have.

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Or make it harder for the special markings to be passed down through the generations.

Example: Say I studded to a male with a brand new marking that was upped to 100% opacity and wanted to take the risk and breed him with my lioness who didn't carry said marking and that slot was open the litter would have a roughly 50% (maybe less to make it harder, and even more less if lioness had the slot taken up by a different mark) chance of acquiring the marking.

It'd go the same way with a lioness and a male having the same marking in the same slot. If both are at 100%, the entire litter gets it. If both have varying opacities of the same marking, the chances will be different on getting the marking onto the litter.

Perhaps this would make more of a challenge?
Just an idea!

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I like that idea too Camo, but with each new mark causing so much trouble, it isn't something I'd want to add yet. I think it would be a cool thing to think about in the future though.

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I agree with this: I don't end up winning the raffle because there are so many people who want to win it. There's like a 1/1000000 chance for any one person to win the raffle. If you up that to a Five in 1000000 chance, people will be much happier with their chances. It is something that would make me like the raffle more. When I think about winning a Vitiligo 3 lioness, I get all happy. But if the person who wins the gal, isn't me, I congratulate them on the feat of winning, then I go for the next raffle. If there was a better chance of getting the lioness, no matter how slim it may be, it is a better chance. And it also helps with the huge 20GB price things happening: I have no GB at all, and that means no special lioness for I don't even know how long.

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100% agree with the first post except per say if there are three winners, instead of them being identical special lionesses, they could be slightly different in their markings/base, etc.

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No no, we would want to spread the same markings and coats, not different ones. That would speed up the spreading a little than if they were different. If there are three markings released on each lioness, then that would still bring monopoly for three players at once. Giving the same would be far more fair.

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Axel is right, different special marks on the winners would be counterproductive. There has already been a comment about possibly having varying opacities or different non-special marks (just so each is still unique), but I don't know how difficult it would be to set up. It would be a cool idea, but I'd leave that up to the admins (I don't want to give them a bunch of extra work).

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I think if you do not win you should get back 50SB you pay to be in the raffle. You enter the raffle but you did not win here your 50SB back.

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Poppi- Then it would'nt be a gamble, I like that it takes away SB. 50 SB isnt too much of a loss. It can be earned back easily

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I totaly agree with you!
There should be more than 1 winner, because sometimes the raffle lioness can go to someone that sin't on lioden much. Would you imagine that she would run away!!!
And the player who wins in the raffle, can't breed lioness that fast, but a lot of players wants the cubs.
In other words...
I AGREE WITH YOUR IDEA!

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