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I noticed something really discouraging for me. I have 34 lionesses, I breed them all at their own times, game says I need 6 broodmothers to protect all cubs, so I need to have 51 territory at least.

If I had my territory full, almost 3 times the girls and wanted to breed them all at their own times then as long as I get on average the same amount of cubs I'd need about 18 broodmothers... which would mean 1 broodmother per 10 spaces highly limits the amount of 'safe' cubs, 50-50 protection is a little low if someone wants to breed as many girls as they have space.

If I had only as much space as I have lionesses then at least 9 cubs of mine would go unprotected. I understand curbing the overbreeding and all but that is forcing people to downsize whether they want to or not and they have to do it within 3 days to avoid any deaths.

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Siliandra - Interacting with your cubs increases their survival rate. You don't /need/ broodmothers.

What boosts the bar daily?
- Interacting/Using Toys/Play All tool.

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Not everyone plays daily, besides I wouldn't play daily if I had 50+ cubs to do it with and toys, well half of them (feathers) now go for nests. Not everyone can get play all. The dunk in survival rate from no broodmothers matters if you can't get the toys or you played every other day anyway.

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They are at a risk when their bar is below 40% and it keeps rising if the bar keeps dropping.
If cub is not protected by Broodmother, it will drop daily by random, but not unpredictable amounts (5-20%).

At the maximum drop, you have two days to toss a toy and an interaction at your cub for a decent increase. If you only drop by 10% a day, that's four days. You do not have to play everyday.

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I think the thing is that most people do not even want to keep 100% of their cubs; I know I certainly don't.
If you have that many lionesses and are breeding that often, you're most likely breeding to get the "best cubs possible" and most of your results will be chases anyways.
Now it's true that this may not be true for some people, but I also have a 30+ lioness pride (33 right now), 39 cubs, and 40 territory space.
I currently only have 1 broodmother because there aren't even 6 cubs I WANT to keep from the current breedings.
That could change tomorrow, when 6 more of the lionesses are going to give birth, but I have enough space for 3 more broodmoms and I doubt I'll get 15 cubs that I all want to keep.

I hear what you're saying, but again can you REALLY tell me that you keep 100% of your bred cubs to adulthood? Perhaps you do, but the majority of Liodeners with giant prides that breed all the time most likely do not.

EDIT
Also.. if you do not "play" every, do you mean that you do not roll over every day? Because things only change if you roll over. So not playing for 5 days would do nothing so long as you don't roll over.
If you mean that you roll over but then do nothing.. I don't really see the point in that? Do you roll over just to advance pregnancies and then do nothing?

The game really doesn't punish "not playing everyday" any more because of the roll over feature.

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Again, not everyone has the time to interact with x cubs, I have 29 that need a broodmother, it takes long to go to each of their pages spread out across my den. I'm thinking of people who have more today, like 50+ cubs under 1yr old, when this update got introduced. Yesterday they had a choice to play with them, today they have to if they want to keep the cubs, so anyone with a large breeding program might suddenly wait until they have an hour or so to play? It's a little too forced for me, as others said before, it makes the game more of a chore than fun pasttime.

EDIT: I breed so many because it's hard to get the right characteristics, sometimes I want a single marking to be passed on or a special base. Once they are bred I would like to know if any happen to be mutated, instead of chasing on the day. I keep them until 2yrs old.

When I said play I meant playing with cubs, I rollover but can't possibly play with each cub personally, not always, when I can I get play all - have had to since my pride grew to accommodate a breeding project for my previous heir.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't the entire point of the nesting, cub mortality, etc. to discourage people from mass breeding, and also from keeping around and flooding the market with crappy cubs anyway?

This isn't a reply to anyone in particular, I'm just kind of throwing it out there.

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Exciting yet scary!

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I also breed a lot to try and get certain combos and often end up with absolutely nothing; so I don't care about those cubs at all. Usually I just let them starve until they turn 2 years old and can finally run away or I sell them as bundles of "kill bait".

Torquil still has a point. you don't HAVE to play with every cub every day. Just like I don't feed or play with my lions every day. I stagger their mood and hunger so that I only have to feed and play with a few each day.
Your cubs are under no threat until they hit under 40% , just like with hunger and mood you'll get a warning about them being in danger. So go play with those cubs that are in danger to bring them up to 60% (so that even the max survival decrease only just brings them to the line).

I get the whole waiting for mutations thing, but to a degree you have to accept that you are blatantly taxing yourself by keeping every lion until it turns 2 years old. Lioden is supposed to allow for all styles of play, but certain styles will be inherently harder. You could try to run a karma bait farm and sell bundles to help pay for Eagle's Eye uses. It's 60 sb, which isn't too bad but on a lot of cubs could be very taxing. You'd have to stagger it.
Broodmom up the cubs you definitely want o keep or are pretty sure you want to keep.
Then Eagle Eye a few unprotected cubs to see if they have mutations. If they don't, well you don't have to worry about them any more. If they do, consider switching them to a brood mom or make a note to always play with that cub accordingly.
Offering any surviving 5+ month old cubs as karma bait in bundles to help assuage the cost of Eagle Eye and use explore + fights to keep up your SB.

It's not a perfect system, but Lioden is meant to increase in difficulty the larger your pride is.
And, again, you don't HAVE to play with every cub every day to keep them alive. Just make sure you catch them before they drop below 40% if you want to keep them. Create the stagger system and you'll only need to interact with a few cubs each day; probably not even every day..

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I never wanted to play a stagger system - does this update basically mean I have to do this? I come here to relax, I don't want a spreadsheet of whom to interact with today so they don't run off, I don't want to have to have more territory than lions just so that I don't need the stagger system.

I want to have fun, this is not fun for me, not as much as it was beforehand. Who knows, maybe Lioden will be better off with less players like me or less people playing like me but for me difficulty in games should be optional, not forced on you, especially not after you've invested yourself into a game.

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I'm excited to see how this will affect gameplay!

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Cyll

I will not stop

you cannot force me

*complains more*

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Rawrrr so much work

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@Sil

A stagger system does not require a spread sheet.... It's not even hard and the natural fact that lionesses give birth at different times basically create the stagger FOR YOU. All I do is click Hoard>Food>find a carcass and feed any lions who's hunger is 60%+.
Then I do Hoard> Amusement> pick any non feather item and interact with any lion below 50% mood (exceptions made if I want to breed with a lioness as she needs to be at 80%+ mood).

Basically all I am going to do is wait to get the "this cub is in danger!" message if I have any wanted unprotected cubs and then interact with them until they are about 60% survival so that even a max won't decrease wont' kill them.

You don't need to over complicate things. The system will work FOR you.

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