I completely agree that a lot of the category choices for bases make no sense, but I still don’t support moving existing ones around I’m afraid. I wish they had been put in categories that were logical in the first place, and I definitely wish it would happen with new bases as they’re added, but I don’t want existing ones moved :(

It’s all very well to say it would only be a one-off move and it would be best in the long run, but moving bases like this (especially the ones that have major moves, from one colour group to another like eg labradorite) causes so many problems for breeders. And those problems can be pretty longterm, it isn’t something you can just sort in a single generation of breeding.

When it’s a rare base that you’ve potentially spent a lot of money or time getting, and have your breeding plans organised around that, it just doesn’t feel fair to me to alter the category it’s in after the fact. It was a nightmare last time it happened, and that was a much smaller change (in terms of number of bases moved) than this. I know a lot of people maybe don’t remember how unpopular it was and how much trouble it caused because it was years ago now, but seriously it took months for a lot of affected players to try and fix or recover their breeding projects. The genetics system was also newer then and less entrenched; the whole thing would be considerably worse now.

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My projects would be affected by this, I get it. And while I respect for your opinion, I abhorrently disagree. Why put new bases into the right groups if everything's already all over the place anyway? At this point, why even have Solid and Countershaded, the admins don't seem to care about them anyway.
People would get used to the change. They'd complain and grumble and grump, but ultimately they'd get over it and adjust their projects to suit it. If the current bases aren't changed, I don't ever see the admins caring enough to pick the right groups for future bases.

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I totally get what you’re saying, I guess I just don’t agree about it being worth it in the end. I know people who are still bitter now about Inferno moving all that time ago lol. Though in a lot of ways these change would actually really benefit my own personal projects, for me moving established bases en masse is never worth the upset.

Agree to disagree though <3

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I think they should just change the names of Solid and Countershaded without moving around the bases.

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To what? There's literally nothing in common between, say, Ardor and Cinnabar other than the fact that they're both red/pink. There's literally nothing that they could be changed to. Either the bases change groups, the shade groups are removed completely, or they continue to not matter at all in how a base is grouped and just serves as a useless function.

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Delta and Sigma? 1 and 2? Ok, you have a point there. The idea of removing shades entirely is one I can get behind though. It wouldn't mess with things nearly as much as switching around bases or making new categories.

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I so badly don't want this to be a thing. The ratio of supports to no supports makes me nervous every time I see this thread.

I have a good system going for Labradorite breeding -- for example -- and lions to breed with for it. I have many Mobolas (same genetics as Lab). To throw away all the time and effort that people have put into collecting the right lions for many of these bases would just be detrimental to a lot of people. My Lab example is of a more recent base, so it may not take too long for recovery (it would still be a hassle and an expenditure of currency and time). But Fuschia and Ardor, as an example, have been around long enough for this change to completely ruin people's efforts.

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If someone has to change around some things with their projects, then so be it.

There's no logical reason to not keep things in their respective groups, it should have been done to begin with and if it doesn't get fixed we might as well not even HAVE groups at all. What's the fucking point in having groups if they all get thrown around all willy nilly anyway? Yeah, Ardor TOTALLY looks solid. Definitely. Nothing countershaded about that base at all. Cherry Blossom? DEFINITELY a cream. Yep. Pink is a cream color now. Look on any old color wheel, it's not in the red at all!

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It's quite easy to just.. buy or breed for more lions. Like, if Sapela and Shedua were suddenly replaced with, say... Anjeer and Cinnabar for Madagascar breeding, I could easily just replace them. I'm sure people would trade lionesses that have certain bases around, as well, because someone that needed Buff will now need Fiery and vice versa. It's not hard - and there's no reason as to why the genetics don't make sense in the first place.

Instead of playing pin the tail on the donkey and putting bases where they shouldn't be and missing terribly just because "oh, this area is lacking!" they should have had a system in place to prevent it in the first place. What's the point of having a distinction between bases & shades if the rule isn't followed? Why do the genetics need to remain messy for old players and especially confusing to new players? If there is a need for gold solid bases, for example, an actual gold solid base needs to be implemented. Not a red countershaded and put it in gold solid just because that's where things are needed. Just using that as an example.

It also causes the issues of some markings looking good on the special base, but not on any of the fails. For example - Bast. Markings that look good on Bast that don't change the looks completely look awful on most of the gold fails... because all of the gold fails are actually gold. and Bast is a red base. I shouldn't have to base change a cub just for it to look good, or have a terribly ugly king just so I can say "hey, at least the fails look decent enough, right?" (Edit: for clarification, my side king is Bast based, so that's where this information is coming from.)

TL;DR : The genetics need to be moved around to make sense - at the very least, with the few bases that are EXTREMELY out of place. (See: Cherry Blossom)

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I personally like how they are set up rn, cause everything gets put on the wikipedia. It wouldn't be hard to change things around but I could live without it, other then it not making sense visually. But maybe its just me coming back to this and finally getting adjusted to everything.

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Honestly I cannot tell you how many new players I've seen get confused over the base grouping. They need to make sense for people to understand how breeding works and get a grasp on it. It isn't just a visual aesthetic issue.

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What Typhon said. Yes, it would mean some people would have to tweak their breeding projects (myself included) but really the current way the groups are set up makes very little sense. I've seen it said several times they put a base in a group because "it needed one", knowing that the base is completely incorrect visually for that group.

I'm really not sure why the Admins are worried about groups being "even". I don't think players are really concerned with that? I don't think I've ever seen a player go "Well, darn it, the color groups are uneven. Unacceptable!".

Personally, even if I have to do a total revamp of my pride, I'd much rather the genetics make sense than the bases just be arranged willy-nilly for the sake of being "even".

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Well, except that even if the main objective of current grouping is being even, it doesn't work at all, so that evenness argument falls flat from the very beginning. Like, how exactly, say, Black CS Dark and Golden CS Light are even right now? Last I checked "even" didn't mean "one has over twice as many as the other" ;d

I'm one of those (maybe few) players that are actually concerned with groups being even, but that rehaul wouldn't even sacrifice evenness for the sake of sense. It would only improve genetics from "uneven and senseless" to "uneven and logical".

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asjskskjaksa exactly

Imo, with my grouping, it does look more even other than a few groups, like red solids and the golds, but that can easily be fixed by just releasing bases that fit in those groups. I don't understand the concept behind the current groups in the first place rofl

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