This has probably already been said, but a way to use all items, including 20 y barks (and inputting a number instead of a bunch of drop downs or check boxes) would be immensely helpful. Marking certain items as required to reverse breed (set by owner), and maybe even which are forbidden, would also help. Say you require lion scrotums for all dwarf breedings, and you forbid crunchy worms, you can set that. Or they must submit an aging stone for each cub they want, and say you can only submit 2 stones for a 4 cub litter if that's their terms, but all terms must be visible before submitting a request?

I don't know, the number of things I would love to see would probably overcomplicate it haha. But alternate payments would be cool, too, with popular payment items included - like pay an additional 5 barks for payment in place of GB/SB, or buffalo scrotun/lion scrotum.

TL;DR: Automate as much as possible, using popular reverse breeding rules as a base, so there's much less chance of either side being scammed.

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I've already posted my disagreements with attempting to make a reverse breeding system where you can separate cubs, but I thought I might as well say how a system may look like. I've tried to make it relatively simple.

1. In order to have a lioness be eligible for the reverse breeding process there will be a new role that can be applied to a lioness (like hunter and broodmother). For the purposes of this explanation, lets call it Vixen (the female variant of stud). This is so to prevent situations where the lioness is hunting or is protecting cubs when being reverse bred.

2. For reverse breedings, there needs to be a distinct area from which people can put lionesses up and people can breed to them. I would recommend changing the Special Lioness area in the Explore Map to a Reverse Breeding area - raffle lionesses are already linked to in the News Post, they have a clear spot in the News Tab, we have had this happen before with the Oasis originally being in the Explore Map and it won't involve any art change other than the label.
Now in this area you can put up lionesses for reverse breeding. You will have a limited number of slots - say 5? Which you can unlock through SB. You can further increase the slots through GB (similar to sub male slots) but only up to 10 slots.
Similar to trading, you can choose which Vixen lionesses to put up. When a lioness is put up to stud, she cannot be role changed, traded, chased, etc until she is taken off the list. She also cannot be bred by the user's own lion (this could be represented by her having a purple flame when she is in heat). The user will need to fill out her studding prices (similar to the male studs) when putting a lioness up and has the option to type out stud rules similar to with male studs. (Note: If a lioness runs away whilst being put up for reverse breeding, she will no longer take up a slot.)
Moreover, there will be two lists one can access whilst in this reverse breeding area (similar to the different Trade Centre sub-lists such as items and lions). The first one will list lionesses who are in heat. The second will list lionesses who are not in heat but are still up for reverse studding. (Alternatively, only lionesses in heat are shown).

3. The would-be customer will choose which in-heat lioness they wish to stud to and then will send a stud request - in which they send the currency and any breeding items they wish the female to use (similar to the current male studding system) and also 6 uses of nesting material. The owner of the lioness will receive the stud request and then can choose to accept it or decline it (For example, they may decline if they see a crunchy worm is being used). In order to accept it, the lioness will need to be either fully fed or very well fed.

4. When preforming the actual studding I have several ideas of how to go about it.
4a: The lioness will need to be Goddess fertility in order to be bred (or at least 80+% when accounting for fertility degradation). When sending a request, the male lion will take a hit of 10% energy.
4b: The lioness needs to be at least 50+% in fertility in order to be bred. When the lioness is successfully bred, the male lion does not lose any energy but rather loses 100% hunger (when the lioness has been bred, a notification will be sent to the customer informing them of this).
4c: When a lioness is put up for reverse breeding, she is automatically boosted temporarily up to Goddess fertility. The male lion will still take a 10% hit in energy when sending the request. (To ensure that this isn't abused, linked accounts cannot access lioness vixens from either account)

5. Once the lioness has been successfully bred, she will be automatically nested with the 6 uses of nesting material the customer sent. The lioness will remain within the owner's den for the duration of the pregnancy. These Vixen pregnancies, however, will take place according to real time. It does not matter if the owner does not roll over, the lioness will age over the three days (as well as grow hungry and moody, hence why they must be properly cared for before they are allowed to breed).

6. Once the lioness births the cubs, they are automatically separated. The lioness will remain in the Owner's den but will then act as if she was nursing her cubs. This means that she cannot have yohimbe bark applied to make her immediately eligible for reverse breeding again. In order to skip this cooldown, the owner can pay a GB fee - thereby acting as the current need to age up newborn cubs in order to make a lioness breedable again.

7. The baby cubs will then be sent to the customer's den. This will be explained as a nursing lioness from the reverse breeding area taking care of the cubs whilst they are still newborn (whether or not she appears within the pride as an entity which cannot be interacted with is up to the developers). They then act as normal newborn cubs would, except the mother is not accessible. Once they grow to be 5 months old, the nursing lioness is no longer needed and returns to the area.

8: Under this system it does not matter whether one user goes on a hiatus, as long as the lioness is bred, the cubs get delivered to the customer. As all the cubs belong to the customer, they all get delivered automatically rather than having to deal with the faff of two users needing to be online on the same date to sort out which cub which person wants and what happens if both people want a particular cub etc.

*Note - Reverse lionesses can be CRB'd, but in order to do this they would need to be bred and have it applied whilst they do not have the role of vixen. Due to the automatic nature of the studding system, once they have been reverse bred, the resulting litter cannot be aborted.

So this is what I would imagine would be the easiest and simplest way to implement a reverse breeding system. Obviously, as I am not a coder or programmer, I have very little clue as to whether some of these ideas are feasible, but I feel that it would be a very good system.

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This is probably stupid, but what if when the girl was studded, there is a little button saying 'reverse stud?' The stud request would be sent to the male's owner, with two options; either accept or decline. If the person was just to decline, a message would be sent to the female's owner, with a similar message 'the male has chosen to decline'. If he had accepted it, (the stud fee would be taken out of his account) the lioness would become pregnant for her 3 days. When the pregnancy is over, the cubs would be weaned, but without the option to chase/tree/kill them. At five months, the cubs would be transferred to the male. While girly is pregnant, because she has been reverse studded, she will not get hungry.

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@love
Hm, but doesnt this selflessness karma then make it possible for someone to always take the best cub of a litter no matter what, regardless of what may have been agreed upon prior to the breeding? I think this would make scamming super easy. You post a lioness and always have them aplit breedings, someone else not only pays you for breed her, but also pays the stud fee, potentally applies items, and then you just wait for a mutie or rare base/marking and only ever claim those, 'passing' on every other cub to farm those points.
I would suggest limiting any kind of karma then to a per litter basis, but I think even here its still easily abused because litters often have duds that are easy to pass in favor of choosing 1.

There is still the issue of litter size too
Maybe all reverse breedings should guarentee 2 cubs minimum, this would ensure a base fairness if things are split, and double as encouragment to use the system vs 'traditional reverse breedings'

But back to the choosing issue, I think each participant can just be given a list that they choose keep pass on and the other participant can accept it or submit their own, and should neither accept the whole litters ownership is randomized. This is an unpleasant ultimatum, but it means people will have to sort themselves out rather than try and play the system into giving them what they want vs simply talking it out.
This thou would mean if you dont respond to accept or reject a suggestion, it probably auto accepts, leaving then a window for someone to send a last minute suggestion you dont have time to respond to. So even this suggestion is flawed, so maybe not. I find writting things out helpful thou so maybe this will give someone else an idea

It can always still be a thing to manually split a litter if it doesn't become part of the system, personally I think it's more fair for it to be in the buyers control weather thats done, since the lioness owner is willingly and in full awarness selling a heat. It seems unfair for the one who ends up paying for everything, potentially food, toys, nest, stud fees, breeding items, is then restricted in what can actually be kept of that breeding. If they choose to split it, it may be easier to let them do it manually.

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@Blue pigeon

I love your take on it, you covered everything I could think of!

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@Blue pigeon
Yeah you covered everything there is and I like it. I still think the separate area thing should be called a love Hut. But that's just because it was my idea lolz. I like how well you planned everything out. I hope the system will work something like this when they implement it.

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Would it be possible to have a similar breeding system to the lions except that the cubs all go to the king that bred with her Automaticly . There could be a botton on lioness page for reverse breeding and the coders could link all the info about the king breeding with her to ensure the babies got to that king.

I do like the Love hut idea mentioned above.

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((Sorry if this posts twice it did not show))

Maybe it could be an option like a breeding item?

What I mean is: Take Buffy Balls for example- say you’re going to stud your lioness to a stud out of your pride and want to use buffy balls.. down at the bottom when you go to send a request it gives you an option to use them for that stud.
What if for reverse breeding it could follow a system like this?

Maybe there could be a special role that you could set the lioness at which you want to reverse breed to.
Similar to hunting/broodmother role.

When shes set to this role she will appear on your page somewhere like how your kings do to stud to them.
You (the owner) can add the options of what is needed to reverse her (and price) bellow and whoever chooses to breed her will automatically be set as //her breeder// (or whatever you want to call it) and once the cubs are old enough will be sent straight away to them (her breeder.)

Now, onto how this will work:
1: Choosing Studs?
Down bellow on her page there can be a box where you’d add an ID of the stud at which you want to breed her to.
A notification will be sent to this player along with the items at which her breeder may have chosen. (And stud cost)
If the player does not respond within say.. 30mins? Then her breeder will be notified to choose a new stud.

2: Player does not roll over?
If the lioness os set to this role- once bred, she will automatically roll over //despite// her owners activity only until the cubs are born.
-Possibly problem and suggestion to this ^^
P: The person may not roll over after the cubs are born, thus leading to the, staying with them.
S: One option could be that the lioness continues to roll over until they are old enough.
A second could be that //just the cubs// roll over or lastly the cubs are sent over already to the breeder and could be set automatically with some protection? Or sent directly over to the breeders broodmother or just some lioness- possibly a lioness with cubs already? Maybe you could have an option to add them to a certain lioness.

This is just a rough example I kinda rambled on about.
Hope it makes some sense

EDIT:
I know how some people with muties mention:
‘’If more then one is born //I get one// and //you get one//‘’
Maybe there could also be an option the owner could add that stats something like:
‘’If there are multiple muties born /this person/ will get’’ and insert number.

You could also add the option possibly of /if what type/ of mutie is born then they get however many.
That way if people are breeding to say.. //dwarf// and two muties are born but ones an AMP and the other is a dwarf.. well then the breeder is suppose to get the dwarf and not the AMP.

Another option: Any muties born will not be sent over to the breeder but will instead go into
‘what we’ll call’ //the void// and while its here it can not age, starve, be killed or be used for any purposes until it is decided whom will obtain the mutie.
It also will not take place in any cub slots and will kinda just be /there/ like inventory kinda.
To avoid scamming- there could be an option where both the //owner// AND the //breeder// must agree on what decides of the cub(s).

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Here are some of my suggestions ^^

1. If she is on a breeding cool-down and already is up for RB (Reverse Breeds) The breeds should be temporarily put on hold. Before you put her up and she is already on cool-down, it should allow the user to create the settings and setup but still make her services unavailable.

2. I also believe there should be a duo center for Studding and Reverse breeds to kind of clear the sales chat, Almost like the trading center but for reproduction services. You have male/ female filters and base, eye, genetics, etc filter.

3. I do believe there should be a separate page on the center for hybrids only (IMO hybrids need more love.)

I'm dumb someone's got better ideas so I guess ignore this unless you agree with anything here

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Okey doke, time to throw in my two-cents since I own hybrids and reverse stud them out.

Disclaimer: I don't know jack shit about coding lol.

Lots of users have mentioned good points above me, on either side of the split cub litter argument. I personally think split cub litters are important as I've bred one of my gons and gotten a double gon litter. It's possible. However, for simplicity's sake, I don't think split cub litters should be implemented immediately. The feature should be in the works, absolutely, and it should be one of the first updates to the reverse stud system, but it doesn't need to go in immediately.

Breeding items are a requirement, though. Almost all reverse studding relies on them. IMO, it should function almost like the crafting area does? Where you MUST have all of the required ingredients before you can craft something, likewise you must have all of the required items to reverse stud. Items can be but aren't limited to: Pennyroyal, Buffy, GoP, lion scrote, crunchy worm, gmo cow, lion meat, yohimbe barks, mukombero, aging stones, etc. There also needs to be an "et all" feature, where you can also throw in shamanic stews, roasted vultures, and so on.

The idea of also being able to use others' studs needs to be considered, too. I have received reverse studs in the past where I was asked to send a stud request to a male besides my own. Again, like split litters, I don't think that this is something that needs to be implemented immediately, but the staff should be aware that there will be a request for that kinda stuff in the future.

DU reverse studs also need to be taken into consideration, since it is possible for the lioness to be bred to two different studs. I am unsure how that would be best dealt with, but I'm sure someone later on the thread will have a solution.

And speaking of DUs, there needs to be a simple way to do AMP checking by the customer.

As far as split litters go, it is my opinion that the most popular reverse stud policy (1/3 and 2/4) should be implemented. If the owner of the female lion has not rolled over in two days, though, ALL cubs go to the "customer". Likewise, if the "customer" isn't online for two days, all cubs go to the owner. That keeps people from scamming others if they get multiple valuable cubs in a litter.

In summary:
- Split litters could come later.
- Being able to stud to a third party needs to be considered.
- Breeding items need to be included when/if the feature is released.
- Possible special rules for DUs.

Edit: ALSO the "owner" cannot make any changes to, kill, chase, tree, or preserve the cubs. They MAY freeze them, but only if the mutation is lethal (deaf lions included). I've heard of people spit-changing cub bases, chasing cubs, etc.

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I am not sure if someone mentioned this already or if it would work programming wise. For a Love Shack having an button that appears on your lioness' page when the countdown to their heat appears that says "Show in Love Shack". Then having the Love Shack as a physical page where people can browse the females up to breed, how long until their heat, the price, etc. If you see a lioness that you like you can send a breeding request.

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Not sure if this has been suggested or not, but it would be a good idea to like, have a love shack similar to how branches are? So you can advertise in sales for your ladies all in one place?

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I'd like for there to be a very limited number of females that you can stud at once, so that players can't make ridiculous money off of it when they're already well-off. (Turning off thread notifications, won't see your reply.)

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Already gave my suggestion but just out of curiosity,...why WOULDN'T people want to have this feature? It's a cool idea. I just noticed that we had 10 people say they didn't support the idea

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I saw someone say that if a lioness is on a cool down, she should be unavailable for reverse studs. I think that would defeat the purpose of the feature, since reverse breeds are done on hybrids a LOT, especially in February. Instead of making her unavailable, the person buying the breeding should be able to submit y barks with their request. Please please please don't leave out lionesses on breeding CDs or most reverse breedings will just be done manually anyway.

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