Personally, though art doesn't mean much to me, nor does it play a big role in anything I do- I'm just,, pretty against there being a system at all

All artists do things differently- they finish things in different time-frames, which is perfectly okay! So a set system just wouldn't work in many ways, plus it might make the transaction less secure in some frames- as well as less customer-to-seller, less personal, if that makes sense akaka

N yeah I guess a few adjustments might help when when/how the artist is paid- but no amount of adjustments would be able to cover the vast variety of ways artists/customers like doing things ^^

Though maybe this system could be added- but the way people do transactions w/art right now isn't not-allowed?? So people have choices ig, n so as many possibilities are covered as possible :00

You have liked this post!

i think something along with what other people have state above, that this could possibly work:

Art auctions/raffles

I play another game that has something called "Graphics Auctions"
where you can upload a screenshot or example of the picture/art being auctioned/raffled and people can bid on them. [the highest bid after a certain amount of time will win the piece, and then the artist is sent a message where they can send over the art or whatever was included in the auction, and I=if its not done in a few days its auto-canceled and the money is returned to the bidder from purgatory XD]

maybe people can offer art it like a trade, and perhaps if you wanna do an art trade they can have the option to offer a piece of art/picture that has a lioden stamp/watermark on it. and then after a certain time or when the artist finds a good offer they can accept it but the items wont transfer over until the commission/image swap is complete.

You have liked this post!

there are a lot of great ideas in here, but i'm gonna try and bullet point my two cents to make them as easy to understand and connect as possible:
- i like the general consensus of a trade-like situation in which the currency is on hold, and the art is delivered with some sort of watermark until payment is received
- i like xanthipe's idea that a cancellation would have to be agreed upon by both parties
- however, i don't agree with a time limit that only the customer or the game would be able to set. ryebr has a good point, i support the idea of a customized expiration date that both parties could agree on, but to limit every single artist to have their commissions done in 30 days no matter what seems a bit ridiculous.
- i LOVE kaz's ideas about messaging (my commission thread and pm's get soooo messy and it makes communication incredibly difficult sometimes) and artist profiles!! that would be so fun

- also, a few people here have expressed concern about edits and progress, and i do believe that this shouldn't be something necessarily dictated by the site. we're talking ultimate payment here i think, not progress shots. i think an artist has the right to deny giving you constant updates and unlimited edits on a finished piece- these are details that are almost always vary by the artist AND are defined in their TOS (or they should be), and it's getting a bit too constrictive. an optional way to provide progress shots would be fine, though, i'm just saying it should in no way be mandated. estil made some good points there.

- as for real currency transactions, i have no idea how that would be able to be moderated through an official system. gb transactions are one thing, because they take place exclusively through provided game functions, but real currency transactions ALWAYS go through a third party... i don't know if y'all are saying that LD should somehow iron out a way to pay real money through the site itself for commissions or if there should be a web of safety nets and rules concerning off-site transactions, but either way, it seems pretty tricky.

- as an aside, i do believe that whatever feature is implemented, there shouldn't have to be constant oversight and intervention of staff. it's good to have them to turn to, but making it necessary to receive approval by someone just sounds exhausting for everyone involved.

overall, i believe the implementation of an official art sales feature would be great for a lot of people, just like how the addition of studding and GB sales and clans and raffles was. however, i genuinely hope this feature would similarly be completely optional for those who prefer different terms, such as full payment ahead of time. i can't see a reason not to honestly, as "traditional studding" and personally hosted raffles and clanless families are still allowed and do quite well on their own terms, given everyone accepts it's at your own risk. i really appreciate the fact that the staff is at least entertaining the idea of adding an optional level of security though, and furthermore, that they've opened up this way for real people to share ideas and concerns, so thank you for that! <3

You have liked this post!

As an artist as others have stayed a ticket system where the artist gets paid first after they present an initial sketch (unless it's a sketch commission then they just get paid) once the sketch is started you can submit a preview file in which the buyer can approve or decline how it looks worth a little box that states what is wrong. The artist can either try again or drop the commission. The money will not go through until you have your client approve the sketch. Once you get paid you can then complete the project to the degree that you both agreed.

▪no matter what the artist needs to get paid first before the project is complete due to people stealing images. People can water mark the heck out of something and someone can still remove that mark with a program or trace it. A sketch means the artist has something started and once it goes they should be paid. The commissioner should not be able to deny payment once the first step is completed some that is how artists get jipped.

▪though a system for backing is nice I am still leary some people buy Art with actual real life currency... would that be banned or could we bring pay pal into the system? (Maybe LIoden would get a 5 to 10 percent cut for the art being sold on the site?

▪lastly there should be a max amount of days to get the art out there..maybe a month for any project I state this because people have other things in there life. I myself am very sick but I still do art Sodom it takes longer than expected but I always get the art to the client who paid and I do my bees to stay in touch. If I had an interested client but they have yet to pay then if they do not respond to my message after a certain time frame I will assume they changed their mind.

▪that being said requests should be auto canceled in 3-5 days if no responses are give for the requested project. This can be sent in the form of bla requests a commission of '×' for '×' currency do you accept?

After that if the sketch is done and approved then the artist gets paid but then the artsy disappears there should be real consequences of some kind, but if the artist stays in touch then it's okay the artist might even be able to This an extension from the deadline and the commissioner can deny or approve (this option occurring after the one month dead line). This option would allow for life events to happen that would get in the way since life can be messy.

I believe a system with these things implemented would benefit both pastries and it takes into consideration both sides. Artists are not machines they have feelings and the commissioner should get there project at an appropriate time frame. No exists can be given after the sketch we all have refs to show the client so if the client does not like the work because of your style of shading then that is on them.

Okay rant is over these are the main concerns that I would have and potential solutions. Don't know if everyone would agree but it's quite fair and makes for an easier all around system.

You have liked this post!

As stated by others, Lioden should have no control over artists deciding to take commissions for real life currency. Thus, I strongly disagree with Lioden getting a cut of any of my commission sales when PayPal already takes a cut. I’m really hoping art sales with real life currency remain untouched or at least just better moderated with no additional restrictions placed upon the transaction.

You have liked this post!

What I like with lioden is that you're able to sell art for real currency but my question is if this system would even include such an option, if not I wouldn't find any use for it.
How I do my commissions since its not always the seller being dishonest it's often the buyer too, not paying for time the artist already put down, therefore, I always do a sketch, and when they're happy with the sketch I will ask for a 25% deposit so if they decide to randomly pull out at a later time at least I received a small amount of money for my time.
Being able to use real currency like for example through paypal or other and being able to pay a deposit throughout the work is two key points to support your artist community and make sure there are as few dishonest buyers as possible.

You have liked this post!

As a person who offers art myself, I can only use the system I have as an example and build off of it!

I agree with some of the posts saying there should be an option where the payment is held, but not directed directly into the artist's account. I feel like there should be a layout, as if a box where the artist can customize what they offer, and how much it costs as well as a picture for an example, and if needed, extra buttons for "extras" i.e. "50sb for each additional lion in this piece" but still a limit to what they can add, so that they can't have like 30 extras. They'd have to make another detailed button with a description like "fullbody scene, 2000sb" while there could be a dropdown format box for the commissioner to imput their details, i.e. "I would like [this] character in a tropical scene with [this] character." and a checkbox that could add up the total amount of what the commissioner owes. This could be worked out and worked on, like multiple character slots and items that add up to the total.

The payment would be added up, HALF would be deducted from the commissioner's account, and held until the artist provided a half-done WIP or the finished product.
BEFORE the commissioner gets the final product, there should probably be a giant watermark over it when viewing it in the transaction, like "SAMPLE" text with the artist's name and ID, and this only gets removed when the commissioner pays the last half of the agreed payment up front. Even so, I feel as if there should be an option to put a smaller watermark in the corners of the artwork so people still know who made it. Optional implement, though.

If the commissioner never pays any of the payment, i feel as if they should be reprimanded or the transaction gets cancelled if the artist submits the progress/artwork before or right on the deadline yet the commissioner didn't hold up their end of the bargain.

Like an optional box to display the WIP/finished file and says "Report to Moderator"
i.e. "So and so didn't pay this end of the transaction."

The artist should still get payed when they're finished, but if the commissioner doesn't pay, the artist can report it to the moderators. However, a block for this would be that if the commissioner pays everything on the artist's checklist of fees (i.e. 500sb and a GMO cow, etc etc), the transaction closes once the commissioner pays their end of the deal. Artists can't mass report or scam, but the commissioner is also still held up to pay.

BUT, I think both parties should have a word in the say.

Commissioner cancels early, but you're halfway done with the art? I feel like there should be an option to supply evidence and either have it resolved by moderators or something of the sort.

I feel also as if the artist can input a certain date on when they should get the commission done, and can increase it by how much they need (not excessive like a year) but at least a week or month or so once or twice in case something comes. The artist should be able to manage their time & imput a date they think they'll get done with it - if they finish early, then the profits get sent. They need an extension? they get one or two, depending on the circumstances.

If the artist doesn't finish the artwork past their own extensions and deadline, the transaction would get cancelled and all funds returned to the commissioner.

I also think there should be an OPTIONAL tab where the artist can submit WIPs of the artwork. Say if they need an extension, they can provide what work they've done to show that the transaction is still ongoing.

There also should be an option to pay with SB, GB, and/or items/lions bc sometimes I see artists here taking commissions for certain items, like food or toys.

Admins already said that they don't moderate real life currency sales, so those would be dealt with by the artist & commissioner to work out, and should probably be stated in bold letters when making a tab or something for this system "MODERATORS DO NOT HANDLE REAL LIFE CURRENCY TRANSACTIONS"

This way, the admins only step in when needed. Less stress for everyone.

Sorry if this made no sense, but I'm hoping scraps of this can be used!

You have liked this post!

I've been waiting for a while for all the guys here xp and still waiting with payment proof

You have liked this post!

As both an artist and a buyer of art on Lioden, I strongly oppose this idea.

I run my business the way that I feel most comfortable with, and have no problems whatsoever. Lioden intervening on how artists choose to run their shops just sounds like a very big disaster waiting to happen. For instance, I require payment before I even begin, and if a client wants progress sketches they must ask ahead of time so I know. If a system were put in place where a client could just say they didn't like it, I would be cheated out of my time and effort I put into making the art.

I'm not good with explaining things, but I'm going to try to use a metaphor.

Imagine a restaurant. A customer orders a meal, then eats half of it. He then tells the waitress that he is unhappy with the meal, although there was nothing wrong with the meal; he simply got full. He gets a full refund, but the chefs still had to prepare the meal and take time to serve the man as well as all the other customers. So the man lost nothing but got a refund and half a meal. The chefs, waiters, and other customers are not compensated for their time/effort/work/etc.

This is why I require payment before, and do not do refunds unless I have genuinely made an error in my commission. I put my time and effort into each commission - my clients are paying me for that, not just the final result. I feel as if a system like the ones people are suggesting in this thread would only enable customers to low-key scam artists by canceling/asking for a refund for no reason. There really isn't a safe way to watermark images, so that excuse won't work.

I used to send a watermarked image to customers and then have them pay before I send them the full image. More than once, the customer stole the image, didn't pay, blocked me, and edited the image so that it didn't have a watermark. That is why I run my business the way I do.

All in all, if you implement any sort of art sales system on Lioden, it better not be mandatory, because I am not comfortable with not being completely in control of my business.

I know this is just ranting, but I'm really disturbed by the idea of having art sales implemented into the game in some weird trading system. I'm doing just fine and have been for years.

You have liked this post!

I agree with peaches, if it DOES get implemented I feel like it shouldn't be mandatory. And if it is, then have an option where the artists run things the way they want to - with only the slightest bit of restrictions, going along with Lioden's already set in stone rules.

You have liked this post!

I saw something on another site that was pretty good, where artists could make advertisements and people could buy them which would hide them from everyone except the artist and buyer, the money would be locked in the ad until the artist uploaded the art and/or the buyer released it to them. I liked this because it also helped me keep track of things I ordered/owed and artists I'd gotten works from before. To keep from the art being taken and the money not being released, LD can apply a temporary watermark or display a smaller version of the piece until the transaction is concluded.

In order to cancel, it would have to be mutual or submit a ticket to modbox. In case of inactivity, there should be a (either two or four week) period before it "reminded" the artist. At which point they'd have to press a button on the ad, basically to confirm they were still active and thinking/working on the piece or else the ad cancels automatically. But give them 3-7 days after the end of the period to do it because I understand a lot of people don't log in every day and/or have lives.

You would need different options for commissions and flatsales (difference being a piece that needs work done to it and a piece that's ready as soon as a buyer is found). If you want you could also do Seeking ads but they'd be more complex to do an official system for cause people would have to comment on the ad and that's prolly better left to the forums.

Definitely not saying we should remove the art sales forums though, ads should be separate and prolly only used once a deal has been struck or as something to put your money down on while you work something out.

But I mean, this debate over it being mandatory is kinda moot because they can't force you to do anything. It would just be like an extra layer of protection you can choose to use if you want to.

You have liked this post!

Hmm, strongly agree with 🐉 peaches ! 🐉 (#30473) , now that some time has passed and more opinions have come in, I return to the thread, but unfortunately not sure if I should change from support to no support.
If some people want to use the system, that's fine, but I think the way things are going, I'd rather not use it. What I have for myself currently works, no customer problems at all. Why fix what isn't broken, right? But well, my sales didn't begin here and meanwhile there's plenty of younger buyers and sellers here who aren't quite sure what all this means sometimes, so a system to start with and help them see what goes in and out might be good experience.
I'll keep my support vote for now, but will likely not use the new system.

You have liked this post!

I don't much have any further input for this topic, as @deertush🍆 has already made all the points I been thinking myself.
(- As an artist, who gets most of the Lioden currency via doing commissions I have been wanting to see some sort of official art sale system for quite a while. )

You have liked this post!