-LOCKED - Community Update #113!
Posted on 2021-07-09 14:16:12

Community Update
As we mentioned before, aside from event news and the 2nd Friday of the month being focused on coding/art updates all at once, all other Fridays are centered around the community!


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Official Lioden Raffle


LINK - This is our official community update raffle. Everyone gets a chance to win a rare prize, plus something extra for any runner ups. These raffles have a very minimal ticket price, and there is a limit of 1 ticket per account to make it fair! Good luck!
This raffle will automatically end on 2021-07-16 00:00:00.


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Art and Coding Bug Fixes


* Decors on Dorsal Fur pride leader portraits should no longer be flipped
* Fixed a duplicate of "Celadon" that replaced "Tessera" genetics, and thus prohibited any "Dunt" eyes to appear
* Lion Pride Veiled Wraps [Light Blue and Pink] should now display on all lions
* Previously, the Item Catalogue would not search all locations that an item was available in, this has been fixed
* Searching for main males wouldn't sort by level properly, this has been fixed


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Regarding the July Event


Hello, Lioden!

We're just writing this to extend a hand from the devs to the players, and touch base with you all on some of the feedback and comments we've been receiving over the past couple of days.

Retiring the Event


As we mentioned in previous news posts (July 2020, June 2021, and July 2021), the original July event would be retiring this year. We know that July was a very content rich event with lots of things to do. We know that the theme overall is popular, too. We know that by comparison, what launched this month seems less than and that can be a shock. However, all of our events started off launching on a smaller scale and grew over time. This time is no different, but we understand it can be disappointing now that the majority of events have had several years of fleshing out. We really hope you'll be patient with us and be excited to watch it grow.

Because of several years of content additions, in the end the event became messy and disjointed, and we felt it required a complete overhaul. Additionally, we know that the storyline left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, and as explained, we felt it best to leave these characters behind and move on with new characters. We know that originally it was planned for Tefnut to have a mini backstory, but over time we as devs felt the storyline needed to be put to rest, and so that didn't happen.

We were surprised to see players upset about the removal of the storyline when we had explained it would be retiring, and so few players voiced their upset at this before.

Launching the New Event


Tefnut's memories, in hindsight, shouldn't have launched until the 8th and we apologise for that. Gathering MS which could then be spent there sent the wrong message when the new explore requires the shards to have steps. The apps originally launched in SB prices. After concern started being voiced by players about how cheap they were and the risk it would ruin the market, the prices got upped. This then caused more upset with other players, and the prices were changed to MS. This, then, caused upset again, and it became obvious that all of these choices were wrong. We then moved to remove the apps entirely from the shop and are still considering what to do, but we can promise that the apps will not return for a MS price, and more likely to be reverted to either SB, AC, or the option for both.

The new MS output is intentional because the event has changed. However, we listened to you all and gave an increase so you'd be able to get more steps in celestial explore.

Back to the celestial explore. We've seen comments voiced that it's too similar to the lunar event on Wolvden and that's upsetting, but we think considering it's an explore system, it is impossible not to see similarities between our other games and events. We will however consider the feedback for this, and look to see if we can do anything about this.

With regards to the enemies - they have more 'special' components than regular enemies, such as some of them having soft skin, some having tough, some being biters or stranglers, etc etc, but their overall 'power' is still lower than most enemies. In fact, it's lower than fighting regular lions in explore, though it likely feels different because they have more components and you have to work out what their strengths and weaknesses are. Additionally, we actually lowered this again after your feedback. Success rates were pretty good in testing as well, even with low stat kings.

To Sum Up


We hope you guys will agree that whilst we might not get everything right to begin with, we have a good track record of doing what we can to make it right. Any time event tiers have been too high or seeming unfair, we have moved to change them or lower them for better balance. We don't do things just to upset players - what would the point of that be? We're trying our best, and sometimes we don't always get it right first time, but we endeavour to make sure we do what we can to *put* it right.

We'd just like to formally apologise for all the ups and downs over the past few days. There have been a lot of quick fire changes. A lot of upset forum posts, news comments and chat posts. We don't anticipate to make any further changes this year beyond one or two more tweaks and hope that things will settle, but we're taking everything on board for next year.

Thank you for your patience, and we appreciate the valuable feedback you have given.

* We have adjusted "empty" explore encounters in Celestial Explore to now reward between 5-10 Meteorite Shards or 1 Axion Core at random.

Feedback and Surveys


In light of recent events, we have chosen to be more strict in our enforcement of attacks on our staff team. The attacks on our staff team and comments directed at them have been unacceptable, cruel, and without constructive criticism. These attacks not only harm our staff team, but our players as well—we have received feedback that players have been afraid to give their opinions in the chat room and on the forums due to the fear of being turned on by their fellow players with these same attacks. Due in part to this, we have found it necessary to follow with the enforcement of limiting attacks on our staff team. These are not new rules, these are existing rules that are currently enforced within the Code of Conduct.

To offset this, we will also be introducing greater chances of feedback so that every voice can be heard. Today, we are introducing a new way for you to give us your feedback - anonymous surveys. These surveys are here to provide an equal opportunity for players to provide feedback, and allow all voices a chance to contribute to the game's growth. They will offer a safe way for everyone to be heard, and will be everyone's first and best place to supply their thoughts in a constructive way without fear of being criticised.

We have created a survey to receive feedback from everyone regarding July's event update, and the link can be found here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeL-aPtccdpLklsQ0C-V2oHbcBUrhy5spza1CT_Ga65Aarvmw/viewform


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Raffle Lioness


Congrats Karina (#212267)! You have won last week's Ebony lady, woo!
A new Madagascar lady with Clay Indri (NEW!), Vitiligo 8, and the thirteenth Shores of Burundi background is up for impressing in the Special Lioness area linked here!

Marking Note: Lilac Crackle, Noctis Indri, and Noctis Panther are now possible to apply via RMAs/Total Shuffle!

Poll Results - Thanks for your votes! August's new stud base will be named "Bandit".

There is no new poll this week, in light of the survey. We'd like the focus to be on the survey if possible.


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Next Development Update: August 13th!


No Friday goofy doodle comic this week, sorry!



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Rhaegar - The Raven
King (#25467)

Maneater
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Posted on
2021-07-11 01:39:49
Well said @Paradice.
This event makes no sense and quite frankly just does not fit this game. I'm still really upset my favorite event was changed for this unfinished, sparkly space dragon thing.


Also, it's not really an anonymous survey if you have to log in with a Google account, is it?

Still have a really bad taste in my mouth regarding this event , what's happened and how staff handled it, I haven't spend a lot of time on this site since Thursday and when I do I just quickly click through explore to get rid of my energy.

And I know no one gives a rat's fart about me but I wanted to say it anyway. even if I know no one cares or even listens.



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❄️ Icey ❄️ (#44765)

Resurgent
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Posted on
2021-07-11 04:17:46
Havent been in LD in ages and came back to check the July event. I guess my problem with it (apart from the weird, recent fixation to create events with weird and sometimes INCREDIBLY GROSS monsters and events of the past years-- seriously, the Demiurge is really squicky and I wish he wasnt the face of the event shop so I could only look at him when I went to buy things, so I could scroll past the flavor text quickly :/) is that... it's just another spooky monster event. Wow. Amazing. Jawdropping.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but its just that... each lioden event was always so UNIQUE, and fun, and different, and the grand/weird/gross spooky event trend really makes them loose that.. uniqueness of it, they begin to blend into each other and it's just boring. We're now getting SO MANY weird/gross/cosmic/ "big scale" events, all related to fighting some sort of weird monster be in normal explore or special explore, for currency. I guess september's is still more explore based but I couldnt know bc I dont play that one bc it's a trigger for me and stick to normal explore. But before... we had a flood event. we had a celestial event. we had a dry season and then a locust plague event. then we had one monster fighting event. Now... there's like, the End of the World bc big serpent. then Galaxy Wide Event with the gross dragon lion event. Then dry season, which is still more or less the same but I dont trust it's gonna stay that way (which woild be a shame bc I like it). Then gross omen event, which is still Big and Unsettling. Then angel/demon event which is Another Big Scale event. See what I mean? There's this big stretch of like. grand scale events and honestly I LIKED the smaller scale ones. Its really boring, after a while, to fight monster of the month for items, or things like that.

Idk, I just think that Lioden sorta lost the "fun unique" vibe of its events, they're just these "stopping the big creatures way out of the league of a normal lion" events. Things werent too out there, everything was semi-grounded in reality. These things... idk they dont feel like lioden to me. The two events that were unique in which they were "out there" were the Celestial Event and the Halloween Event, in which one was still connected to lions and had some fun potential for lore ideas, and the other always felt a little ooc bc it was halloween, just like with december (and even then, there was an equal focus on the "mundane" with the rabies plague).

On top of that, I cant help but feel sad that such a UNIQUE concept to lioden such as Apedemak, Menhit and Apollyon were scrapped. I mean, you devs messed the story up, not us (and honestly did you expect us to LIKE turning characters beloved by the community into varying shades of bad and making one of your oldest event NPCs an incestuous r*pist? Which only fed the flames of the clean x dirty thing...) but people wanted to see it redone, not scrapped. What would be the big difference if you kept the exact same mechanic as the New July Event but instead of using the Demiurge, you kept it as Apedemak? He lived in a galaxy-esque land didnt he? You could keep this as the Big Grand Scale Event of lioden, but it would still make sense bc they'd be lions. Maybe Apedemak needes your help and whisks you to his kingdom, and the story would be about the fight between him and Apollyon. The weird monsters could be versions of our creatures but galaxy-esque, and yea you could even throw some unique enemies based on constellations.

Now we got... a celetial dragon. Wow. Much unique, very content.

Again, sorry for the sarcasm and the big wall of text, I'm not mad! This is meant to be more of a critique (which ended up touching on other events too), instead of just plain criticism. I'm not expecting things to change. I guess lioden has decided to move on into a new direction, and to me it just ended up loosing its charm somehow, and its why a lot of old players like me might have decided to move away from it, no drama needed. Tho I guess using genetics as more of a "guideline" and releasing bases that dont match them into different areas was also a big contributing factor for me🤔 but that doesnt concern the event talk so shrug.

Anyway, just wanted to toss my two cents into it. Might lurk around for a few more days and then leave again, probably? Might be back for November, its my current favorite event, and I admit it scares me that its gonna be changed into just.. Spooky Spirit Event on this new brand of things you guys are releasing. Sometimes I almost wish Xylax was serious about making Eldrichden and keeping the eldrich away from Lioden ;-; But oh well, guess we'll see. Glad some people are enjoying it tho, even if I'm not. Cheers!



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Edited on 11/07/21 @ 04:25:49 by ❄️ Icey ❄️ (#44765)

Empress Tansy (#54105)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2021-07-11 06:51:37
Out of curiosity, I'd love to know what percentage of players on here are hard-mode, clean lineage only players. I am not one, and I really didn't have a problem with the July storyline or what they did with Apedemak. Are there not players on here that breed their kings to their daughters? I do daily because I'm not here to play hard-mode- I'm here to breed pretty lions. How is what I'm doing any different than what Apedemak was doing? I am no better than he was. The difference is what he was doing got a story and his daughter got a personality. We see our lionesses as pixels, but we could do the same for them. Any of our lionesses could be just like Menhit and want their own futures, and yet we're going "No, you've got two rosettes and Dad has five, so I'm going to breed you until your cubs have five." It's no different, except for the fact that the story puts it in your face. Should the story have had a trigger warning? Sure. Players who are uncomfortable with that type of storyline shouldn't have to be shocked by it or forced to read it to get their rewards. But, unless you are a hard-mode player, you really shouldn't have had an issue with Apedemak's actions.

I for one, since the story did become a problem, would have loved to see a new, fresh story with the same characters. A sequel, perhaps, where Queen Mehnit and Apollyon have to keep the wayward and insane Apedamak in line or maybe a prequel with a slightly less crazy Apedemak and cub Menhit would have been good. The space snakes could be cool, though, and I'm willing to give them a chance. We won't know until next year really if there's going to be lore or not, but clearly a lot of time and effort was put into this new event. The artwork is incredible and I haven't had as much trouble battling the new NPCs as some other players have mentioned. I haven't won a boss fight yet, but the classic "grab and pound" seems to be working well enough for the rest. I'm winning more than I'm losing and I'm enjoying the cool artwork, so I'll just make do with the new event and spend my AC on raffle lionesses. Who knows. Maybe this year I'll actually win one.



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Axloga (#90914)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2021-07-11 09:37:47
Just read all these disgruntled remarks about the old story... Is this really a problem? In this case, I do not understand why people do not burn down museums and libraries just because someone feels uncomfortable looking at some paintings or reading some books. You can just add a warning before the beginning of the story: "contains scenes of violence, incest" or something like that.



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Edited on 11/07/21 @ 09:40:43 by Axloga (#90914)

FlameHeart (#233839)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2021-07-11 09:40:40
I know I have been a bit harsh on the admins lately- apologies.

I will say this: if the new storyline is biologically-based- I will be all over this event (I am a pre-med student, so stuff like that excites me). I do know it is science-based.



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Before (#25066)

Cursed
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Posted on
2021-07-11 10:17:34
I think the issue with the old storyline was not just content but also execution.

Dark stuff is okay. It allows people to confront issues they may not have confronted before. In writing, it can increase empathy when you understand why someone might do something evil, even if you yourself would never do it and that person should still be condemned for their actions.

That's not really how the storyline was framed, though. Apedemak's evil deeds were pretty much just what players do when they do a breeding project. Breed a daughter to her father to have the cubs inherit the right genes; kill a lioness you don't need anymore and don't want in the Chased pool. It's just putting it in a context where it's just definitely in the wrong, because Menhit and Tefnut were full characters with hopes and dreams of their own. Your lionesses only have personality and goals if you want them to.

The story itself also didn't condemn Apedemak's actions unless you picked the right responses. Apedemak could have been fully successful with no repercussions. And while being able to side with him and let him succeed by itself isn't that bad, decors, titles, and applicators were locked to choosing his side. Some really cool ones at that. You wanted to call your king "Divine [Kingname]"? Better let Apedemak win!

I myself was a little disturbed but I could push through. Granted, I only did it one year (my hiatuses kept falling in July), but I've read the storyline several times. I did like the mechanics of the storyline, though, the number of different endings, and even having the chance to side with the villain.

I don't mind that it's gone and I'm looking forward to what'll take it's place. I just hope it has as many branching paths to make it so interesting to do each year. I'll miss the Celestial lions, but I also think it's good to have a retheme every now and then.



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Tansyheart (#54390)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2021-07-11 11:47:32
@Before, your second paragraph still kind of reiterates my point, though. The only reason we can be upset about Tefnut and Menhit is because they have a story. If they were like any other NPC we meet in explore, we wouldn't think twice about attacking, killing them, breeding them, etc. It still doesn't make what we are doing any better. Any of our lionesses could be a Tefnut. And of our lionesses could be a Menhit. We use NCLs as cub factories and slaughter them once the cubs are five months old. We slaughter potatoes or sell them specifically as fodder, knowing full well what's going to happen to them. If we think critically, our own kings ARE Apedemak. We are the same as he is, but we can ignore our own actions because we aren't writing a story. It just comes across as hypocritical to me that we breed our own daughters and kill our own lionesses but get mad when Apedemak does the same. If we are doing the same actions, we are the villains in our own lionesses' stories.

[Obviously if you play hard-mode, this doesn't pertain to you. Y'all keep your lines clean. :) ]

EDIT: Just realized I posted this on the wrong account. I am the same as the above Tansy.



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Edited on 11/07/21 @ 11:48:08 by Tansyheart (#54390)

Quantas (#114368)

Savage
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Posted on
2021-07-11 14:19:15
Suggestion for the event: Have the apps be found in celestial explore by random with a 0.1% chance of finding them. Having meteorite shards drop after defeating enemies would also be pretty cool.

I think having such an item be available to find through celestial explore would be new and refreshing in a way players like myself would enjoy. :)



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Before (#25066)

Cursed
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Posted on
2021-07-11 14:39:59
@Tansy

You're right. If you look at it deeply enough, a lot of what we do on here is pretty messed up if it was actually happening. And I think that's exactly why Apedemak's actions are so uncomfortable, because since it's so gruesome, it feels like an attack on players who play that way. Versus the silly Friday doodles which also poke fun at playstyles where it's clear it's all in good fun.

Like, there's nothing wrong with you if you do breeding projects that way. You're not a morally bad person. It's just pixels.

Even Clean Breeding can get pretty dark if you think about it hard enough - you're judging a lion based on its parentage when you're specifically choosing Clean studs. That's not the stud's fault! (Even if it is the player's.) Let alone whatever's happening when you heritage-replace a lion. Seems like body-snatching to me. Also, you know, studding. Real lions don't do that.

So because Apedemak's actions are shining a negative spotlight on a particular playstyle, it feels like it's either condemning these players or saying Apedemak's actions are okay. Neither message is great.



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Adi [AMBROSIA
PROJECT] (#195501)

Phoenix
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Posted on
2021-07-11 16:16:20
I see this argument over and over again in fandom community.

Like you said, @Before, It's just pixels. Apedemak creating his perfect pride, ascending to power, killing lions he deems inferior, etc are not reflections of any kind of "message" about things being okay because he isn't thrust into the center of the story as a hero for doing them and the devs do not openly or secretly encourage the player to do these things. His actions are not glorified by the devs as being morally superior or correct. It's all about what choices you want to make, what you want to explore.

Do you feel this same way about movie producers, writers, etc who produce content with any dark theme? Lets say horror movies, in particular. Do you think those people are really putting out a message that mass murder, torture, etc are okay? Probably not. A story on Lioden having dark themes is no different.

Dark content existing does not mean the creator believes the content is okay. It does not mean that the content is sending a message that the dark themes are okay to replicate or morally sound. Fantasy does not equal reality. I absolutely believe that content with these sorts of themes should have warnings, specific to the type of content in contains, to protect the mental and emotional health of the content consumer.

I also don't understand the last bit - how can it be condemning a similar play style for being bad, but also sending the message the bad juju is okay?



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Before (#25066)

Cursed
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Posted on
2021-07-11 16:54:03
I said in my first reply that I think dark themes are perfectly okay. I'm a writer myself, and some of my characters are terrible people. I perfectly understand that having dark themes and evil characters=/=opinions and beliefs of the author.

Context matters, though. Watching people get murdered, tortured, etc. does not reflect our everyday reality and doesn't make you feel bad about how you live your life. Apedemak's murder of Tefnut and intended incest with Menhit do reflect on everyday Lioden gameplay.

And notice those are not the only dark parts of the storyline, but those are the only things players have issues with. Stealing lion souls to patch up a land breaking apart? A-okay. Apollyon's also kinda shady, and he can murder Apedemak and absorb his soul if you let him, but nobody complains about that part. Your lion can also temporarily die in a couple of different ways, and their soul can be stolen by Apedemak. The difference is none of this has anything to do with regular Lioden gameplay. It's just dark things happening in a story.

What I was saying in the last paragraph that Apedemak killing Tefnut and wanting to breed with Menhit = player breeding projects. Thus if you think player breeding projects are fine, then the logical conclusion of the story is that Apedemak's actions are fine. But if you think Apedemak's actions are wrong, then the logical conclusion is that player breeding projects are also wrong. There is a difference - Tefnut and Menhit are characters and your lions aren't - but that's not how it feels reading the story.



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Xenoko (#233400)

Angelic
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Posted on
2021-07-11 21:07:47
The event is hard but it’s also cool!



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Chromatic (#190138)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2021-07-12 00:36:09
I think it would be cool if this event maybe wasn't just retiring the old story line but maybe a continuation of one of the outcomes of the old storyline. I know many people miss the originality that July brought, and it would be cool to have a storyline based on the Celestial Kingdom we never got to see. Tefnuts Whisper guiding us through the stars. Still battling these constellation dragons the threaten the ancestral plane there are so many ways to make this storyline more original and so much more interesting and I hope that any of these ideas are considered. I do like this new event and I think it has so much potential to be a lot more and be woven into more of a story that incorporates everyone's favorite NPCS hell maybe even make the Axion core the heart of the Celestial Kingdom there are so many ideas that can flesh this event out and make it so great! But as of now it seems a bit drawl which is to be expected so I hope we get more in the future.



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Cj 🌈 (#174601)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2021-07-12 01:04:09
^^^^ THIS.

A continuation would be absolutely amazing, everyone would get to see their favorite characters of the past storyline appear, perhaps even the shards being not only for exploration, but a choice between using them for shop currency+exploration. (This could also incorporate the Tefnut's Whisper guiding our lions through the stars, as Tefnut would be running the shop) I've noticed some reincarnation items in the shop as well, maybe even a reincarnation of Tefnut? Like Tefnut's new form that of a sunset lion/dragon, idk. The shop prices could go back to the way they were, like how the wings were 75 shards, apps were like 2k-3k, decor etc. (OOH and maybe even more interactions from the Demiurge other than the Adventuring!)

With all of this into play, this might actually balance it all back out tbh. (And visiting the Celestial Kingdom? HELL YES. ) Maybe the Kingdom was overthrown by dragon/lion hybrids, a main baddie by the name of Dragore/Draigore
or whatever name I just thought it sounded cool lol)



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☀️Kichea☀️ (#222420)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2021-07-12 10:52:46
Thank you for this update



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