Posted by Breeding Project Guide

jester [im autistic]
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Posted on
2023-05-22 20:19:41

Breeding Project Guide
This guide is made by and for The Lioden Conservatory, and is made public to help others! Please note that this guide heavily focuses on rare breed-only traits, though many steps are applicable to many projects. This guide also assumes you have a moderate level of familiarity with the game, common acronyms, and its base level mechanics. This is not a guide for someone who just started Lioden.

Starting a breeding project can be hard. There's a lot that goes into planning, carrying out, and even just actually starting the project, and it can feel hopeless at times. Breeding projects are financially draining, I would recommend going into one with a solid foundation. They are not for users who are still establishing themselves. As much as I hate to say it, not everyone will have the resources to complete their breeding projects. The more "valuable" traits you add, the more expensive and grueling your project will become. This is a very important reality of breeding projects, the methods I will outline here are the fastest, most efficient, and therefore, the cheapest overall. They may have much bigger prices to get started with, but I promise you they are cheaper than other methods.
In this guide, I'm going to plan out a project, and walk you through the steps I would take to breed it. This project is going to be a complex one, in order to cover as many bases as possible. What are we going to start with, you ask?

Meet Tutorial! For short, we're just gonna call her Tory. She's our breeding project that I've thought up to walk you guys through this.


Tory has a LOT of difficult traits going for her. She has the Madagascar Base, which is a combo base, and she has 9 BO Traits.
She has a Royal Clay mane, Grape Eyes, and Bunting Skin. Her markings are as follows:
Slot 3: Seal Rosette
Slot 4: Dark Brown Crackle
Slot 7: Seal Brindle
Slot 8: Cream Soft Unders
Slot 10: Almond Underfelt

Before we even think about getting started, let's check her slots. We'll use these wiki pages to check: Raffle Marking Slot Rarity and Misc Marking Slot Rarity
A lot of her markings are rare, but they do exist, so we're good there! But we run into a problem at Slot 7, where we find out Slot 7 Seal Brindle doesn't exist as of writing this guide. What are we going to do? Well, we can either pick a new marking in that slot, or we can look to see if the Seal Brindle marking exists in a slot close to Slot 7. What do you know, Seal Brindle is most common in Slot 6! We can just move Seal Brindle up a slot, since our Slot 6 is empty, and....


Wow. Nothing changed. That's great!

Now that your project is finalized, here's where you start collecting the slots you need. In general, most rare slot keepers are happy to toss a few to you for cheap, but you may run into a few issues that may need you to go back to the drawing board. The most common ones are that the user is using the slot for their own project, and can't afford to toss some spares your way, or they're inactive. Since I'm not actually making this project, I picked rare slots from ones I already own, aside from a few. If you did need to buy rare slots, there's a few different ways to do this:
1. Making a Looking For Forum Post - You would make a forum post with the exact marking slots you're looking for, and hoping rare slot keepers find it. You can also advertise this thread in Sales Chat in order to get more eyes on it!
2. Checking Their Cave - If they keep many rare slots, they may have a cave (or a few!) dedicated to this. Usually, in these caves, you'll find a cave bio that will tell you if the user is open to receiving messages about rare slots. If they mention that they're open to PMs, feel free to shoot them one! Just make sure to stay polite, and state what you're willing to offer them for a lion with the slot you desire. If there is no message stating that they're open to PMs, try another method!
3. Contacting Owners - Many rare slot keepers are very serious about it, meaning you may be able to find them in Lioden themed Discord servers. Here is where you can reach out to users directly to ask about purchasing rare slots, rather than relying on looking for posts or potentially vague cave bios. However, there is a downside to this, and it's that off-site conduct is not moderated. You usually won't find an issue in doing it, but it is always a risk when dealing with users outside of Lioden itself.

It's a very important note that very rarely are users actively hoarding slots, the narrative of slot hoarding is not something that has a place in modern day Lioden. If they're unwilling to sell a slot to you, it's very likely either they are actively using it for a project or a dear friend is. Don't worry too much if this happens, usually other users might own the slot and would be willing to help you out, or worst case, you might have to shuffle your design around a bit. This is the best time to shuffle it, though, before any actual progress is made on the project.

Now that we have that out of the way, there's a few different steps we'd take towards obtaining Tory. Each step will have it's own reply, so let's look! Most of these steps can actually be done in any order, and are just done in the order below because of how I prefer to do my projects and the most efficient way to do this specific project. We're going to be using a kinging method, which is where you devote one account entirely to breeding the project via "steps", aka, replacing your king when you get a cub that's one step closer to your final product.

Please note that base is only being done last as the tutorial project is a combo base, if it was any other BO base, you would do base first

Step 1: Picking a Project Starter & Evaluating the Best Way To Accomplish the Project
Step 2: Mane Shape & Color
Step 3: Eyes & Skin
Step 4: Markings
Step 5: Base

FAQ
I'll be filling this out as questions roll in, so don't pay this any mind just yet!


Liked this guide? Check out LDC's other Conservation Journals!
HTML by Katie (#106445)




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Edited on 24/08/23 @ 05:04:54 by jester ☘️ (#187561)

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g1 ambro (#244875)


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Posted on
2023-07-15 14:24:03
These steps are helpful, but let's say that i need a BO base, two rosettes at best and a couple BO', would the steps be in the same order?

my desing has 7 markings:

s1; cimm zebra (RMA exclusive)
s2; blue poin. snuggle (< APP!)
s3; Noctis web (NCL exclusive
s4: White inv. zebra (BO)
s5: Noctis soft rosette
s6: inv. rosette white
s7: white soft unders (BO)

I cannot afford a DU at all and even less a Rosette one! I dont exactly care about exact slots i just need the white rosette on top & the cimmerian zebra at the bottom. For the base its Jellyfish, but theres a huge lack in rosette jellyfish atm so thats why im asking if i could just get the marks then the base with a BO?



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jester [im autistic]
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Posted on
2023-07-15 14:45:21
Since you want to do a breed-only special base, you need to start with it to save yourself a lot of heartache in the future. However, it's very important to note that breeding projects are unfathomably expensive. They are long, drawn out, and at some points, can get miserable. And since this is a new BO base, there aren't really any potential DR starters you could buy to *hope* you get lucky with them passing, there's at most a single rosette.

The DU method I outline for breeding rosettes on is the most efficient method. It is also the cheapest by virtue of being the fastest, as the cost for maintaining the lions you'd need to just hope it passes via luck will eventually outweigh the cost of brute forcing it with Gnawrocks. To put this into perspective, it is a 0.000002% chance for you to breed a Jellyfish DR naturally, under conditions of Jellyfish King w/ one rosette, and a Rare or other Special Mom with the other rosette. If you're breeding two Jellyfish (or one Jellyfish and the other a Random Combo Base) parents, each with one rosette in non-conflicting slots with the other slot empty, this chance only rises to an estimated 0.000004%. You are more likely to win the RL multiple times over than you are to successfully naturally breed a Jellyfish with two rosettes, and that's without even factoring in the other markings. The number just gets lower and lower.

I wish there were better news, but breeding projects are not for the faint of heart.



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g1 ambro (#244875)


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Posted on
2023-07-15 14:49:09
I am planning to use Gnawrocks for the rosettes most of the time, or at least during the last moments of the project. i am not broke but i am also not able to breed, nor buy a DU atm, that could change, since i do own a very rare RLC, would breeding a jelly with 1 rosette and a couple of the needed marks with another jelly with the other rosette be the best way t acheive this design? or should i really go get those markings from studs?



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jester [im autistic]
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Posted on
2023-07-15 15:10:16
As much as I hate to say it, if you cannot afford to buy and upkeep a DU, you might not have enough of a safety net to begin such an ambitious breeding project, especially if you own other expensive lions you need to upkeep that you cannot throw in a freezer account. My own personal breeding project, which has been ongoing for nine months and is just to breed a clone of my queen, has cost me well over 200GB in estimation, most of which was just converted to SB for Eye and Skin Rocks. And I am not trying to breed this from scratch as you are, I have the final product I'm looking for finished, I just need to breed it all over again.

The methods outlined in this thread are the best ways to achieve this. Even by breeding two Jellyfishes with non-conflicting rosettes using Gnawrocks, the chance is still only 4%. While you could always get really lucky, it is very inefficient in the long term unless you're also able to slap a crunchy on the lioness to hope she produces clones, and are able to bark her in the event she doesn't and gets old. DUs have double the cubs for the same item cost, and the limiting factor of breeding a Jellyfish king w/ a rosette and a Jellyfish lioness w/ a rosette is that you, at most, will only have one or two lionesses with the base and the desired rosette at a time, maybe three if you get lucky. Compared to a DU with one rosette being bred to a Jellyfish king, even if her base is an uncommon, she ends up producing double the cubs (and more potential DUs if you use a Lion Scrotum), making it more efficient just due to the sheer number of extra rolls you get via breeding a DU, even though she has a lower chance of passing the base by virtue of at most 2% compared to the 4% chance.



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g1 ambro (#244875)


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Posted on
2023-07-15 15:36:01
Alright. Thank you so much. I'll be getting myself some more profit from my RLC, and hopefully be able to get a DU heat (I have found one with the desired rosette in the right slot) Hopefully she could end up passing her mut! I dont doubt this will be a lot of money, but now i am more prepared mentally, so thank you!



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rem (#276310)


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Posted on
2023-07-22 13:36:10
thanks for this guide! I have a question if you don't mind answering:
1/ This is my project [https://www.lioden.com/wardrobe.php?c=FR3H0hEWS7] that has an ungodly amount of event app markings. Should I apply those to my project king or the final cub that fits every other requirement?



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jester [im autistic]
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Posted on
2023-07-23 13:31:32
@276310 - Apply any applicator traits to the final step! It'll save you from having to keep them on the project the entire time.



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Ezgati~Crazy Panther
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Posted on
2023-11-28 23:52:16
Nice guide!
I was thinking about writing something like this from my own project experience, but I see there is no need. Well done!

As I am currently strugling with markings, I put getting a BO base as the last point in my "to do" list, because pearl breeding is punishing enough as it is.



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Sphinx |Leonid
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Posted on
2023-12-07 17:47:09
Hey there! I cannot thank you enough for this incredibly detailed guide. I’m just setting out on my own project, and I plan to use this guide every step of the way.

I did have a question about cost effectiveness in the beginning. I am looking for a specific mane combination that only exists on one lion with the BO base I’m planning on (not for sale though). At this point, there are no base cubs with either the mane shape or mane color for sale, but there are a few studs out there with the base and either the shape or color. Does it make more sense to just breed out my mane combo lionesses to the studs instead of kinging the base only with no other desired traits? Given stud fees are around 250sb vs the cost of an early retire king then another early re-kinging (assuming I get lucky)? And would concentrating on breeding to a stud with the shape versus color make a difference on probability of obtaining both?

Since I’ll be starting off the project with my base, I’m also curious if I should be trying to concentrate on obtaining lionesses with the desired traits in the color group of my BO base? Or if it is simply better to mass breed to whatever I can get in terms of my other desired traits? I’m assuming resulting cubs will all be helpful in propagating the desired traits so keeping the ideal ones for breeding back is helpful as well.

Apologies for the huge book of questions, but I really appreciate the work and thought you’ve put into this! Thank you again!



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jester [im autistic]
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Posted on
2023-12-09 03:15:31
No worries about the questions!
So, to answer the easiest one, there is no reason to use specific genetic matches for breeding. With a change to genetics, genetics now no longer matter at all for a base passing. Doing Bushveld x Nacarat is the exact same chance as Bushveld x Ebony, the only factor that matters is the rarity of the other parent's base, with Special x Common being 1%, Special x Uncommon or Rare being 2%, and Special x Special being 4% BUT split between both specials, unless one is a combo base.

As for your other question, that's a bit more complicated. While stud fees are cheaper up front, I'm assuming your lionesses only have Common or Uncommon/Rare bases, meaning the chance of your desired special passing is probably closer to 1 or 2%. If they are a combo base or share the special base, then it's a 4%, but if they shared the base, you would have kinged them, lol. So while it's 250sb per attempt, it's just that, per attempt. And if you have to breed a lioness to an outside stud, say, 50 times (using a 2% and each litter being 2 cubs), to get what you want, that's 12500SB, which, in the current economy, is probably closer to 15GB rather than 12GB. And that's just to get to odds, sure, you can get lucky, but you also can get *unlucky* and have to stud way more times than you expect, sinking more and more money into stud fees that can take away from your project.

Personally, I would king the base with no desired traits, and breed to lionesses, with a focus on getting Mane Shape and Mane Color on asap. Eyes and Skin can wait, though once they're on, I would recommend keeping it on and not sacrificing eye and skin for markings amount.



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Sphinx |Leonid
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Posted on
2023-12-09 07:40:39
Ah, here’s where my 3 year hiatus shows. I had no idea they changed the genetics so they no longer influence base passing. I suppose that does make things a bit easier on me then.

Given how much luck is involved, it does seem that kinging the base only to start makes sense, as then you at least know exactly the cost you are in for. Thankfully I managed to find someone willing to sell me a base + mane color, so I will be kinging that today, actually! I have a few lionesses now with both the mane shape and color, so that will be my mass breed attempt for my next step.

Thank you again for taking the time to write this guide and the detailed reply, I really appreciate it!



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Sphinx |Leonid
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Posted on
2023-12-26 11:28:31
Hey again! I’ve succeeded in getting my mane shape and color on my non-combo base and I’m back with more questions.

Regarding markings. Is it better to concentrate on getting one marking on at a time? In other words, only purchasing say Slot 1 lionesses en masse, working on that until I’ve got the Base + Mane + Slot 1, then moving on to Slot 2? Or should I just grab whatever marked ladies I can? Given some of my slots are slightly rarer, I do feel these steps might take substantially longer and be better served by the second option.



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🐅caracal🐆 |
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Posted on
2023-12-26 11:33:19
jester’s not really active right now



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Sphinx |Leonid
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Posted on
2023-12-26 11:35:36
Ah! I see. Thank you!



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