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Posted by | Fixing Combo Bases [+309/-13] |
jester [im autistic] ☘️ | 🇵🇸 (#187561) View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-05-23 23:51:35 |
Currently, Combo Bases are a bit... odd. Not only are they mostly borderline worthless, no one really wants to breed for them because it's so incredibly demoralizing. The chances of them passing are absurdly low, it's been estimated at a mere 2% via scries, no matter the factors used, and currently, even selling bred combo bases is a pain in the ass. Most are worth at most 10GB (though usually worth around 3-5), with the most expensive bases being the June Combo Bases, which aren't even bought at the prices they're listed at, they're just so high because it's impossible to breed them. "Jester, how are you going to fix them?" Simple. Stay with me, alright? It's a three step process. 1. Increase the rates of combo bases spawning from breedings of the Combo x Any Factor. For example, a Hellebore x Goldenrod breeding would have a 3% (or maybe 4%) chance for Hellebore, rather than the 2% chance it has currently, which is identical to a Lilac x Goldenrod breeding. 2. Increase rates of the Combo x the Combo breedings. This would mean a Hellebore x Hellebore breeding would be a 4% chance for Hellebore, rather than the same 2% chance it currently is. 3. Make Combo Bases Passable at a reduced rate. Wait, what? Let's expand on 3 a bit. As seen with hybrid bases, making rare and hard to obtain bases passable usually doesn't devalue them all that much. Kimanjano and Mandarin still sell for a good 25-30GB, on average, and they have mechanics that increase their pass rate in certain breedings, and have a reduced pass rate in all others. This is what I would want Combo Bases to become. To give an example, let's go back to breeding Hellebore. There would be four methods to be a Hellebore breeder: 1. Having a Lilac King and breeding to Goldenrod and Udara Lionesses, for a 2% chance at spawning Hellebore cubs. 2. Having a Hellebore King and breeding to Lilac, Goldenrod, and Udara Lionesses, for a 3% chance at spawning Hellebore cubs. 3. Having a Hellebore King and breeding to other Hellebore Lionesses, for a 4% chance at Hellebore cubs 4. Having a Hellebore King and mass breeding to non-factor lionesses, for a 0.5% to 1% chance to produce Hellebore depending on the lioness's genetic rarity label. Just like Kimanjano and Mandarin function (confirmed to be half of the rate of other specials on the hybrid wiki page). It's also rather annoying that a lot of combos can't reliably fail into some of their factors when you attempt to breed them with certain combinations, or when you're mass breeding them. This makes it hard to sustain combo breeding, as you'll end up eventually always having to buy factors, for example, Qahir x Qahir cannot fail into anything that is useable for the combo, other than Qahir, the same can be said for Arabica. Combos should have an increased chance to fail into their factors, and also have a chance to spontaneously generate a common, uncommon, or rare factor from the breeding, similar to how Albino can randomly appear from any breeding. This would only apply to non-special factors, Special factors would still need a parent with the base to appear. Adding in to say the Combo Base roll should roll before the special base pass rate, as it's annoying that potential combo rolls can get blocked by specials in the breeding passing. Feel free to let me know your thoughts below! If you No Support, be sure to let me know why. While I understand a lot of you may be against the changing of combo bases, I believe making them passable naturally will, if anything, help their incredibly low values and make breeding them far more accessible. Value isn't just determined by rarity, but also by the demand. Currently, there is very little demand to breed combo bases solely because of the way they function, so I feel addressing these functions might make the popularity of combo bases go up, and, in turn, their value as well. Thank you for reading! EDIT: Adding a bit of reasoning for Number 3 - it's because currently, every other combo trait in game works like this, where the traits that make them need to be bred and, from there, the traits can be passed down either normally (in the case of Royal Mane & Mane Colors), or at a low rate, like Sectoral Eyes. Combo Markings in Wolvden also work identically to this as well, where once they're bred they can be passed down like any other markings. While I think allowing combo bases to pass identically to other specials would flood the market after a few months, I think a reduced rate equal to Kimanjano and Mandarin would help bring value back and alleviate some of the pain associated with combo breeding. ADDING MORE I also think Combos should have a higher chance to fail into their factors than any other common/uncommon/rare, similar to how Albino lions have an elevated chance to pass Albino. More detail on this has been added above. |
Nanas ghost/G4 Uneven (#360663) King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-10-09 12:36:41 |
Ive just started (around 4 months ago) breeding for combo bases because I want to do anything other than just mass breeding, and I am already tired of it. Each time I log in, I get my hopes up just to remember how insanely hard it is to even breed hybrids, when combos are worse. I honestly believe I might get a gen 1 gon or pon before a combo at this point (assuming I get the similar luck to some of the horror stories I have been reading). I wish there was an item or at least better odds to get them, because some of them (Looking at Basalt and Temporal) are just stunning. 1 player likes this post! Like? |
May - G1 Bushveld 13 BO Primal (#340557) UwU View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-10-09 13:44:58 |
Yesss pleassee 😩 Combo bases are one of the first things that really got me into breeding when I first started Lio. I got lucky in my first year and popped off a few combo bases without really trying, and now that I dedicate my queen as a Combo Base stud I feel like I'm getting nothing 🥴 so this would be so amazing while still keeping that air of challenge to em. 1 player likes this post! Like? |
🔆solace (#148835)
Maneater View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-10-16 22:28:31 |
heavy support. it is incredibly frustrating as a combo stud/breeder to have the majority of your options reduced to 3 bases (combo/factor/factor) and, even more so, getting a non-factor stud request knowing that your base couldn't possibly pass for your client. i want to keep combos around but it's high-investment low-reward for bases that unfortunately have some of the best looks in-game. this would be a wonderful change. 2 players like this post! Like? |
Fern [main] (#158699)
View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-10-20 20:45:20 |
Huge support, and going against the grain to say I actually ESPECIALLY support #3. Using Kimanjano and Mandarin as an example, back when the pass rate was virtually nonexistent (like 0.5% even with Kiman x Kiman, let alone anything else) almost nobody wanted them. Sure, on the rare occasion one was listed on the TC the listing price would be high, but they'd be very difficult to actually sell because few people want to waste GB and time/effort on something that will virtually never pass down. When the pass rates were increased, it didn't devalue them -- in fact, the exact opposite: now they're actually selling regularly, at reasonable prices (still on the high end compared to other BO specials if anything) and way more people try to breed for them. I think letting combo bases pass themselves would have a similar positive effect, especially for a few particular ones like Squall that have ridiculously limited factors. Is it any wonder Squall is unpopular when it can ONLY pass by breeding to itself, Cloudburst or Unholy -- literally no other circumstances? It was introduced to the game 3 years ago and only now broke past 100 living lions, and just barely at that (111 as of posting). (For comparison, Witch was just released this very month and already has over 180.) This is not a functional, enjoyable challenge, it's frustrating artificial scarcity. I don't think increasing the factor pass rate alone would be enough to fix it. Personally, the lack of natural passing is the only reason I avoid combo breeding. (Or rather, I only breed to combo bases when I have a different BO special I want the full 4% pass rate for, lmao) If that was changed I'd totally go for Citrine, and I'd be willing to pay significantly more than the paltry 3 GB they struggle to sell for now. 4 players like this post! Like? |
cuttlekiss (#156234)
Heavenly View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-10-29 15:12:25 |
as an account dedicated to combo breeding, i would love for the chances of it to be somewhat increased ;u; though, i don't agree with a parental combo base being able to produce the combo base again -> because then it isn't really a combo base, if that makes sense? the combos should only be able to be bred with the combo factors, but i do like the idea that the parental combo base could produce the base's factors... mini edit for clarification because i'm bad at words: i think i agree with having (ex) hellebore x hellebore having a chance to produce hellebore cub? genetically, i guess, it would make sense. however, i do not agree with hellebore x factor having a chance to produce a hellebore cub i've given my support, regardless! 1 player likes this post! Like? Edited on 29/10/23 @ 15:16:01 by everglade [g7 damu rlc] (#156234) |
🐅caracal🐆 | #1 ghost hater (#343802) Necromancer View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-10-29 15:14:34 |
THIS!! One of the reasons I never plan on kinging a combo is because it can’t naturally and I really don’t want to mass but factors just for a 2% chance to get a combo. 1 player likes this post! Like? |
Confidential [scoundrel] (#154151) Astral View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-10-29 22:37:41 |
@everglade You want to change it so that combo bases can no longer pass themselves with factors? That seems like it'd make combo bases even more difficult to breed for even less of a reward 2 players like this post! Like? |
Equagga|G2 Vagabond Splash (#105402) Punk View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-01-04 21:10:31 |
I have freakish luck with combos. I bred my first Elysian, Hexaplex, and Snowflake on the first tries, and on my side I bred Madagascars for a while and still work with them a bit. I'm gearing up to move on to Elysian and Qahir. And despite that freak luck... For the love of god please at least elevate the pass rate for base x base and base x factor. Reward us for breeding the dang things successfully just a little. Combos throwing their own fails is an awesome idea too, though I think it should be restricted to the bases in the pairing so that you can't, say, breed two of the Egyptian applicator bases and get the third if you don't score the combo, and definitely can't breed an Anubis to a Cream Lighter and get a Bast. I think the simple way to do this would be to change the roll orders as proposed. Combo > Fail to parent base > regular rolling. This would up the chances of getting the combo in base x base/base x factor breedings (because if the roll for the combo failed, the fail to parent base could be to the combo since at least one parent already was it) and increase the odds of cubs being born with useful bases since in factor x factor breedings, you'd have increased odds of replicating a parent base instead of getting whatever common fail. Base x base should have a solid 5% chance of working at minimum. I do kind of like the idea of them passing rarely to non-factor bases, but to keep it tough and more rewarding to breed the factors, it should perhaps be even rarer than passing hybrid bases. 3 players like this post! Like? |
Fuego [II] GrodTsavoSepia (#41761) Nice Guy View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-02-28 08:45:11 |
Vixxie (side acc) | G1 project (#392667) Maneater View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-06-08 12:25:37 |
It's like the opposite of hybrid bases, they're hard to pass so they're worth a lot, combo bases are hard to pass so they're worth less. A few days ago I saw snowflake based clean lionesses for 300-500sb on TC, or 1-2GB for a young G2. It's so much work and so little return, their system needs to be fixed 2 players like this post! Like? |
Fuego (#41825)
View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-15 12:43:47 |
I keep getting advised to make the suggestion of allowing combo bases to pass naturally every time I bring it up, so I am bumping Jester's suggestion again because it is so well-organized and there is no point in making multiple threads on the same suggestion. So, hopefully the staff are made aware of this thread. I am just going to reiterate again what I said in Friday 7/12/24's news post: I am BEGGING STAFF: Why can't we have combos have a small chance to pass naturally at this point? Once you are lucky enough to breed a combo, if you king it, it is only going to pass fails unless you keep an entire pride of factors, and that kind of stinks, doubly so for month specific combos. As such the combo bases either lose their value, or are SO hard to obtain they're too costly (ie not worth it) for having a pride member or a king that'll never pass its base. As the game evolves you'd think we could get past these archaic restrictions. As good as these combo bases are they really should be enjoyed by more players. Further, I absolutely support Jester's suggestion of allowing combo bases to pass their factors. Ennead, for example, being able to pass Ankh/Mummy/Incense would be so much more useful than a bunch of black genetics fails that have no use in breeding projects (except Maltese bc I still love you.) And when those apps are 400 JB (different complaint for a different day, also already suggested) it is not realistic to encourage players to buy dozens of these apps for an entire pride. 2 players like this post! Like? |
mutt 🐺❄️ [INFREQUENT ROLLS] (#111603) Total Chad View Forum Posts Posted on 2024-07-16 13:36:20 |
HUGE support. i ADORE the look of so many different combo bases and want to obtain all the ones i can from my current king, but it's excruciating breeding litter after litter and ending up with nothing to show. not to mention i spend so much on stud fees for factor girls i can't breed myself, only to end up with more fails - don't think i've ever had an attempted combo stud actually succeed. at the very least, please make them passable so you can actually *do something* with them, once you've finally succeeded! 3 players like this post! Like? |
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