From what I've recieved , the mystery boxes / bags arn't actually given in a goodie bag form . The person is just given the items through the 'send gift' feature !!

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Yes, but its the premise of it being "Mystery".
Someone can say "Pay 1GB for a chance at XYZ" then not give you XYZ and instead a bunch of junk.

I'm not saying it's Goodie Bags, but that "Mystery Boxes" are a loophole to the ban on Goodie Bags being raffled/sold because a lot of the time what was promised wasn't in the bag. I can see this easily happening to Mystery boxes.

For example, I could turn around and say;
"1GB Mystery box, chance at a mutation."
Sell 20-30 of them and not give the mutation because it's a "chance" whilst still making myself a profit i.e essentially running a con.

Does that make sense?

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Should goodie bags that explicitly say what odds you'd get one be banned? What about custom decor/Beetle skin "goodie bags" that only includes custom bottle skins or custom decor?

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No, they need to be removed entirely imo.
For example someone could claim its a 1 in 10 chance for X, but be lying and when it lands on the 1 in 10 chance, they can just reroll it. There's no way for it to be guaranteed to be fair, even with written odds.
The ones without odds are worse and almost definitely a con.

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I see, What about ones that exclusively give you custom decors or Beetle skins?

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Okay but what about the ones that are valid? I absolutely love them, the ones ive spent gb on are always worth it. They give an outline of what you could receive and what they send is always in those outlines. I understand wanting to ban people who lie about what they could receive. But why should the truthful people be in trouble for it? I think they are super freaking awesome. If it isn't your thing then maybe they could add a feature that blocks certain terms? Example: Block any titles that include the word "Mystery bag" ect. or better yet you could just- ignore them? But as an avid enjoyer of them i would be really upset if they got banned

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No, because again, it can't be guaranteed.
It can't be one rule for one and another for others.

For every genuine one I can guarantee there are 9 that aren't, which is where the issue lies. Especially as there is no moderator support with "promise transactions".

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I mean, I'm glad you've had a good experience with them, but it boils down to goodie bags aren't allowed because scams, and these are the same exact idea pretty much, just not called or put in goodie bags. That's the crux and I think it's very fair. Gambling, addiction, literal children players aside, that's what it is.

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How would you prove it then?
Moderators already find "paperclip trades" too hard to moderate, how are they going to moderate the hundreds of Mystery Box threads? How are they going to ensure they're "fair"? Please, enlighten me.

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What im saying, is a. atleast the ones ive used, no one uses the goodie bag feature. Meaning there is proof of what was sent. Documented. So if someone is sending things that they did not outline in their thread, there is solid proof of it and it can be sent in and reported. I understand that they cant guarantee fairness if say they say theres a 1/100 chance of getting this. But if everything is completely outlined then you are buying that knowing there is no guarantee that you could get that. But your also buying what you pay for. If a box costs 1 then no duh the person isnt gonna give you a GMO cow your first try. That is just not a smart business choice. If their profits match what they are sending out, then they may wait until the 20th- or 30th sold before that even becomes a chance. But that doesn't mean they were lying about what the bag comes with. Everyone with a braincell knows there is a basically null chance of them actually getting it, but its the tiny chance that makes it fun. Plus no matter what you are still getting the same amount of items each time. Its not like- a woops, bad luck, you get nothing. Same gig every other companies been running since the beginning of time. Hell, even with black Friday there is never a guarantee of getting the MoD you want, there's no guarantee that they give out any specific one listed but people still buy GB because they get s o m e sort of MoD. and that's the fun in it. ALSO REGUARDING THE KID THING. You have to be atleast 16 to have an account on lioden, which is plently old enough to know the risks of gambling

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You can't pretend that there aren't underage kids because it's a rule that people have to be 16+. I am confidently certain that there's a pretty large population of children on Lioden. It's the rule, sure—but that doesn't stop people. Also, my gambling addiction and many others' started at 16. 16 is still very young and stupid, and I'm still a young and stupid teenager.

And anyway, like I said, gambling in most places is 18+ or 21+, if we want to bring it back to that. Including in the UK and America where Lioden and its servers are based. At least, as recently as I knew. I know they moved the servers recently. In my opinion, Lioden should be 18+, but that's not really possible.

But anyway, gambling and children aren't really the point. Again, it comes back to these are just loopholes for the goodie bag rule, and since goodie bags aren't allowed, they shouldn't be.

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Leon is also correct that there are underaged members all the time, one of my old friends told me on their birthday they were 19 in 2020, but joined Lioden in 2014, so that math ain't mathing!

I have even caught underage players and reported them over the years tens if not hundreds of times, so it's definitely more common than you think, and I am just one person, think about all the other people/mods catching people all the time.

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I don't dislike the idea of mystery boxes, the concept is pretty fun. The problem is the players. I wish they didn't do the shit they are doing, most selling u trash for a high price :/

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@Absinthe - this is why I am suggesting this, while there are SOME legitimate Mystery Box sellers, there are MORE people running it like a con with the big prizes promised not being given out over the course of days/WEEKS. This isn't a suggestion I have made impulsively, I have watched and studied the threads for a while before making this post.

@Leon - I agree, but it is still a possibility and needs to be considered, especially as a lot of kids are slow to mentally mature (even at 16, I know for a fact I'm in my 20s and still not mature!) and the gambling can actually be linked to the development of an addictive personality leading to further complications for the person.

From a study;
"Other concerns include that the high accessibility to Internet gambling may increase gambling, particularly among technology-savvy youth, and lead to an increase in the incidence and prevalence of disordered gambling."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4610999/

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Okay. But in the end. Its a game. The same way carnival games, arcade games, ect are. Its just a game. Its not like people are betting money, they are paying for a surprise. While some people do spend their real money on the game. Thats just- internet culture. Its no different than spending money on games such as CoD or Apex to get a mystery box for their character. Gambling is defined as betting/wagering money in the **CHANCE** you might get a prize or increase your starting money, with the risk of quote on quote "bad luck" causing you to lose all your money. But theses threads arent just taking your money and then saying "Dang, too bad you lose." You still g e t something in exchange. Some might even say its more fair than the ACTUAL SLOTS GAME that lioden has. Its peoples choice to spend their money on it, if you dont like it- dont spend your money on it. If someone outlines the prizes that will be included, you pay. and if those prizes are n o t what was outlined. you screenshot the evidence, and report it. If your asking lioden to ban these forums then should they ban raffles too? Ban the slots game? Ban any chance based- anything in the game? They arent using goodie bags, the reason goodie bags are not allowed with trades and such is because there is no proof you can provide after receiving them. Sure you can ss that they sent you a goodie bag, but it doesn't say who to contents are from once you open it and mods cant just assume youre telling the truth. There is no such transparency in these trades. Its all there. Every payment and item sent has documented proof.

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