Posted by [1000+!] Bulldog Syndrome: Lethal

☁️Creampuff👻L
air of Lethals (#104429)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2023-11-17 02:51:41
(New text at bottom of post! 🐾)

I am, personally, always fascinated by lethal and non lethal mutations in nature. Being both a farmer and avid science lover, i tend to dive into research on genetic defects when they cross my radar. Thats how i heard of this one.

There is a lethal mutation in Dexter cattle that is called Bulldog Syndrome (aka chondrodysplasia). As i did further research i found cases of similar deformities in other livestock/animals, though not linked to the same syndrome. But for sake of simplicity, lets refer to the mutation as Bulldog Syndrome. In essense, what the mutation is, is a severe and disproportionate dwarfism. (NOTE: this is not typical dwarfism that goes wrong, it is it's own KIND of dwarfism)

Affected cattle are seen with their legs severely stunted, spinal shortening/deformity, their faces snubbed, some have tongues too big for their deformed jaws, and their stomachs protrude in an obvious bulge. Below i will share some medical images of dead specimens. WARNING, THESE ARE DEAD ANIMALS







(Below is just a clean skeleton)


Now, some might say that this shouldn't apply because it is something found in cattle/sheep/pigs etc, and not in lions. My rebuttal to that is that there are plenty of lioden mutations that have never been seen in lions, and yet we have them! (Pies, patches, melanism, etc..) As well as the lioden team themselves using human and pig examples as a basis for upcoming mutations/ideas. I also do not think it is crazy to imagine that cats can have lethal deformities that are a result of dwarfism, similar to the images above. (Think munchkin breeding, where if you get two of the genes the kitten will die before birth)

Here is a medical journal quote VVV

"" THE TERM "chondrodysplasia" is used to denote a condition characterized by faulty development of cartilage and growth of bone in the ossification centers of bones of nonmembranous origin, while the periosteal formation of bone takes place at a normal or a slightly increased rate. The disturbance involves chiefly longitudinal growth resulting in widening of the epiphyses, irregularity of the epiphyseal lines, and short thickened bones as seen in the roentgenograms.1 Clinically the condition manifests itself in typical cases by shortness of stature. This is due to shortness of the legs, but the trunk is of normal length. The arms rarely extend beyond the trochanters. The hands are broad, short, and often trident. The head appears large with sunken nasal bridge and prominent forehead and lower jaw.

This condition is often called "achondroplasia." The prefix, however, means "no" and the word "achondroplasia" would indicate a condition in which formation""

Here is the proposed art with varying ideas for poses!





What the mutation would mean for a lion cub is a stubbed face with set apart eyes, deformed and stunted legs, a rather large abdominal swelling, and a protruding tongue (possibly more severe spinal deformity?) The cub would be posed in a way that clearly shows off all aspects of the mutation, with a far off, "not aware" expression.

-------------+--------------

A bit more about the mutation. The mutation can appear in aborted calves, but quite a few make it to full term and are birthed alive. However, being as deformed as they are, they only survive a few hours or days. The best record i could find said one had lived 14 days before its passing, which seems incredible to me.

As far as what to call the mutation I would suggest Bulldog, chondrodysplasia, achondroplasia, bulldog dwarfism, or bulldog syndrome !

Much like other lethals, i believe this one would possibly only live for one or two rollover periods, passing afterward.
---

0 Months, Birth Message: "Oh no.. your lioness notices her cub is different from other cubs. It's body is deformed, and it's unable to crawl for milk. She is worried about them.."

(Possibly another month alive?)
1 Months, Birth Message: " [Cub] struggles to suckle, and still cannot crawl. It doesn't try to move as much anymore.."

Death Message: "Cub died due to being lethally deformed."

---

If you don't support, please tell me why!

EDIT!!!



I am not a realism artist but i wanted to mess around with an idea! A possibility of what it could look like

(🐾 A suggestion to help with simplicity, a pose that exposes more of the belly might help with making base/marking variations. The belly could have less fur and therefore mirror the Cub's skin color, covering a broader area with an easier to manage factor (compared to making the markings/base cover the belly)

Another suggestion would be to have the lethals have a limited range of colors and marks that use the base genetics we use already, light, dark, medium, etc



This suggestion has 1171 supports and 22 NO supports.



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Edited on 08/08/24 @ 16:11:33 by ☁️Creampuff☁️Lair of Lethals (#104429)

💛Newtie💛[They/
Them] (#410569)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2023-11-21 11:59:57
What about maybe a pose with it on their back? Like kinda just sprawled with its legs in the air?



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☁️Creampuff👻L
air of Lethals (#104429)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2023-11-21 12:19:02
I'll definitely sketch up an idea! That sounds cute



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💛Newtie💛[They/
Them] (#410569)

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Posted on
2023-11-21 12:20:21
^^ Glad you think its good!



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vertigoat 🦬 |
x2ros outlaw (#114297)


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Posted on
2023-11-21 18:36:55
it would be interesting for this to come from dwarf parent(s) exclusively or more likely to come from dwarves, since that would revive the dwarf market a bit and make the expensive breeding items worth using!
keep in mind, as Nim pointed out, bulldogs are really only tied to dwarfism in name, not genetics. that does make this idea less realistic.

DWARFISM EXCLUSIVE:
to preface, this is my least favorite of the two suggestions. as others have said, this would definitely require lots of thought into balancing it. i'm iffy this to say the least, as a lethal being exclusively tied to a certain mutation (that is already annoying to pass) seems like a disaster.
that being said, it could be a really small chance (1-5% or lower) that would roll AFTER a successful dwarf pass already occurs.
furthermore, it could be more likely the mother dwarf passes a bulldog variant if the father is also a dwarf (think how piebalds/patches pass more often with both pie parents). this would make kinging a dwarf more viable, since currently it only functions for aesthetic as no mutation has a higher chance of passing from them.
this would definitely be a different "type" of lethal, making it much more rare than other lethals since it's tied to another mutation.

DWARFISM BOOST:
this is personally my favorite suggestion out of the two, since lethals are already super hard to breed for and making it a dwarf exclusive would be challenging to say the least. alternatively, it could be spontaneous (since original dwarves can be) BUT has a "higher" chance of appearing in offspring of dwarf parent(s). i say "higher" because it would still be really rare regardless! to prevent overbreeding this lethal with dwarves as others are concerned about, it would still only be a SLIGHT boost. it would not be worth THAT much more to use a dwarf vs a regular lioness, but it would still add a little bit more fun to the dwarf market.
it's hard to give exact percentages without knowing the chances of a lethal passing normally, but i'm thinking .1% boost or lower. i've seen numbers for lethals being anywhere from .01-0.24% chance of popping one - my boost would obviously have to be adjusted to how low that number really is. i think .1% boost for the high end seems okay though!

just some thoughts! love the mutation concept <3 hopefully this little potato baby gets added!

*edited some stuff to adjust suggestions / format it better ^-^



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Edited on 21/11/23 @ 19:39:30 by vertigoat🌿[#1 outlaw fan] (#114297)

☁️Creampuff👻L
air of Lethals (#104429)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2023-11-21 18:48:21
Firstly I want to say, thank you so much for the support! It really makes me happy when people like my ideas!

Secondly, although I personally would not want it to be passed specifically/higher in dwarf lions (as I do not care to breed dwarves myself), your idea is still REALLY good and I totally would not be mad if that even up being the way to get them!

Even though the mutation is a type of dwarfism it's more in name and idea than the actual genetics of it. Hopefully one day we'll see this little cutie in the game!



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Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2023-11-21 18:50:10
I personally dont like the idea of it being dwarf exclusive. lethals are already super rare to get, there doesnt need to be anything more to add to it. Especially if you have to pass a dwarf first to even get a chance to pass the lethal.

I woudl rather it be a normal mutation



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vertigoat 🦬 |
x2ros outlaw (#114297)


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Posted on
2023-11-21 18:56:04
in response to nim, that's a good point that it's more in name than the actual genetics! that does make my suggestion less realistic unfortunately.

personally, i'm not a dwarf breeder either but that's largely due to the cost of inputs vs the (lack of) profit in a pass. i know a lot of dwarfism mutie lovers would love to have some chance at higher profits from a dwarf stud or litter, so i'm just tossing this out there as a slight adjustment to the dwarf market :3

either way i'd love to see this lethal implemented into the game! the art you added is also really cute and definitely shows off your concept well <3

to respond to corrupted, i personally prefer the spontaneous lethal plus a slightly higher chance in dwarf litters. having it be a dwarf exclusive would probably be... a little much. fun concept, but would suck to actually breed for if it was truly exclusive.



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Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2023-11-21 18:57:29
I feel like the issue with dwarfs needs its own fix. Having a mutation tied to them wont help and will just be a uneccesary



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☁️Creampuff👻L
air of Lethals (#104429)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2023-11-21 18:58:17
I would only be worried that having a specific way to breed a specific lethal might cause an influx in that lethal, whereas the way lethals work now, it's all pretty random!

Like I said, it's not a bad idea at all! Just not something that I would most enjoy ^^



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Edited on 21/11/23 @ 19:00:37 by 🤍Nim❄️ Lethal Luv (#104429)

vertigoat 🦬 |
x2ros outlaw (#114297)


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Posted on
2023-11-21 19:06:28
that's also a fair point! when i say "more likely to pass with dwarf parent(s)" i still mean it would be VERY rare from dwarves. it definitely would require lots of thought into balancing it so it doesn't become too wide-spread though! since lethal numbers aren't released iirc, it's hard to give exact numbers as to what i mean but i'm talking in terms of being a tenth of a percent more likely (or potentially even less boosted). aka if a bulldog passing spontaneously is .1%, then a bulldog passing from dwarves would only be like .2% or something. these numbers still might be too high, as i'm still not even sure what a lethals normal passing rate is.

but yeah after some reconsideration a dwarf EXCLUSIVE lethal is too much the boost i could take or leave, as it would be a very slight boost regardless.

this would just make breeding dwarves slightly worth more, even if it's still an insanely small percentage of passing this lethal (plus it would also be possible without requiring a dwarf). i do agree with corrupt that further dwarf market fixes would be needed regardless though!



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Edited on 21/11/23 @ 19:09:00 by vertigoat🌿[#1 outlaw fan] (#114297)

☁️Creampuff👻L
air of Lethals (#104429)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2023-11-21 19:13:27
It's still a great idea in theory, it's just lioden economics haha



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Unholy (Ghost 🚂) (#236044)


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Posted on
2023-11-22 21:57:04
I love this idea

Additionally, to be silly, they look like little stress balls



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Wukong's Right
Tit (#453371)

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Posted on
2023-11-30 12:42:40
ITS SO CUTE AAAHH!! SUPPORT!!!



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Vinn
🏳️‍⚧️
[G2 RLC ferus] (#172263)

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Posted on
2023-12-02 09:19:56
poor thing is born as a sphere,,

support



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Quit (#412633)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2023-12-21 21:13:35
Support! It looks adorable (kinda odd to say that about a dead cow calf but oh well) and I love the sploot pose with half-open eyes <3



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