The main point I am trying to articulate here is that, if they where to implement this idea, they would need a counter-balance for it, such as the idea of introducing the cub mortality idea that's been floating around. There's a really good thread on it, infact.

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Good point; support!

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I myself see no reason to reduce the 20-day cooldown between breedings. For anyone who plans their breedings ahead of time, staggering the days of when their lionesses come into heat, there should be a steady production of cubs. If they come out nicely according to the player, then great! If they don't, then simply chase them off - that's just the luck of the draw and everyone has to deal with it sooner or later. I've gotten cubs myself that I wasn't quite happy with. I either hold onto them until they turn a year and three months, or chase them off immediately. Whether or not they sell doesn't bother me, and in my opinion it's silly to see complaints about 'bad cubs' just because they won't put a chunk of change in someone's pocket or make nice breeding stock. Not all real life lions are 'great breeding stock' either. Suggesting this feature would simply introduce a surplus of 'nice cubs', and as Grimoire said, further damage are already broken economy.

So, unless this feature was countered by a way to keep the production of cubs at a balanced limit (such as a percentage chance of each cub born dying), then I will not show support for this idea.

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Mmm I feel that the problem would be that, the market would become too top heavy with nice stat / nice marking cubs, and thus drag down the over-all value of cubs as a whole.
As I said before, and will again, trading has its good and bad sides. It might maybe reduce the prices of cubs, but really... it cant do more harm than the studding system. It cant 'destroy' the trading completely as you almost put it.

I am going to say it again, trading isnt the main feature of the game, the users just made it important is all. The original goal -as it is advertised and for what many came for- is that you take care of your own pride, fight for dominance and breed the best cubs. Instead what we see is that it became like any other breeding game. While there is no right or wrong way to play it, one cant just ignore the original goal and push away the ones who want to breed within their own pride. Which is the natural way btw.

Well too bad the market would decrease. No one cared about the 'explore-hunt-skills-breading withing pride' players when they made the SB cap, so I dont care what happens with the traders if this is implemented. You chose to trade, users chose to do so, you arent forced to trade. You can keep your high statted cubs then if they dont sell.

And this might be a good way to put off many from trading and concentrate on something else. Too many good cubs = too low prices= many giving up and stopping mass-breeding because it doesnt pay off = less cubs to trade = prices rise again.

For anyone who plans their breedings ahead of time, staggering the days of when their lionesses come into heat, there should be a steady production of cubs.
Easy to say for the one who has customized lion and lionesses. You dont truly have to work to get good color-marking combinations. However those who didnt customize their lions, the marking and color combinations can be rather off even at planned breedings. Plus NCLs mostly dont have good markings, and one has to carefully choose 2-3 NCLs to breed in a smaller pride, where the 20 days of waiting period can be a pain.

in my opinion it's silly to see complaints about 'bad cubs' just because they won't put a chunk of change in someone's pocket or make nice breeding stock.
Not everyone is breeding for money you know. I for one want to breed a nice heir, and trying since I started, but could breed my chosen female (which has the color and markings I want) only TWICE so far with that annoying 20 days wait even if I chased all my cubs.

I say the breeding in your own pride is waaaaay unsupported in this game. It became a mass-breeding game with huge amount of cubs. This is why the market is going down. This way at least they would be forced to chase the undesired cubs if they want to try again, and not try to sell them if they have a choice to breed sooner again.

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"Easy to say for the one who has customized lion and lionesses. You dont truly have to work to get good color-marking combinations. However those who didnt customize their lions, the marking and color combinations can be rather off even at planned breedings. Plus NCLs mostly dont have good markings, and one has to carefully choose 2-3 NCLs to breed in a smaller pride, where the 20 days of waiting period can be a pain."
Having customized lionesses actually has nothing to do whatsoever with planning a breeding. If you kept track of when your girls came into heat, and didn't breed all of them at once, there would be a steady introduction of newborns in your pride. I was not referring whatsoever to the planning of any specific colored or marked cubs, simply the fact that you can control when you can expect your lionesses to come into heat, and when you can produce cubs from them if you planned things properly.


"Not everyone is breeding for money you know. I for one want to breed a nice heir, and trying since I started, but could breed my chosen female (which has the color and markings I want) only TWICE so far with that annoying 20 days wait even if I chased all my cubs. ."
No offense, but this entire suggestion honestly comes across as an "I want all my cubs to be born perfect because my luck stinks with getting what I want!" complaint. Regardless what your intentions of breeding are - be it to keep the cubs for your pride, or to sell them to allow other players to introduce new colors into their own pride - I will again state that everyone has to deal with getting cubs they're not happy with. Is it not the same for all games with breeding introduced? If you don't get what you want, then try, try again until you do get something you're satisfied with. I'm perfectly aware that not every player breeds to sell (note I said that if you're keeping them within your pride, it's clearly as future breeding stock). I breed whenever I'm presented with the possibility for my girls. If I really like the cub, I'll swap them between my accounts to keep them. If not, I'll either chase them off immediately or attempt to sell them (as many players do). But I'm not so breeding-oriented as to fuss over the waiting period between doing so (and I actually plan ahead).

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I agree with Kite.
In addition, since I first posted, I was thinking something seems off here, and I figured it out. You're talking about realism, and keeping stuff within your own pride, and whatnot, and thats fine and dandy.
However, male lions typically don't chase their own cubs off. Sure, sometimes cubs get accidentally killed, or lost, or something, but it doesn't happen on a regular basis, and he certainly doesn't chase off his own cubs just to breed his lionesses faster. So Under that logic, if you're going for a purely realism standpoint, then you shouldn't be chasing your cubs off regardless.

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But it is a part of the game anyway. All I see from both of you that this will unbalance the trading system. To hell with it. Trading is a choice, as I was told. if it reduces the prices of cubs well, then it does it. Everything you introduce into the game will have an effect on it. It has good and bad sides. You cant please everyone.

The bad side is that more cubs will be bred, thus the counter will rise (however the excess cubs wont seep into Lioden's trading system, so why care?) and that the market will be full with 'nice statted and colored cubs'. I ask, isnt it the main goal? To not sell poor quality cubs and really the best statted and luckiest player gets to earn more? Soon not only the colors will play a role in selling but also the stats. Which is good actually. It isnt about quantity truly as it is right now, but quality. And right now with the excess cubs quantity is over everything else. I dont like it and many others either. This is why the cubs are cheaper.

The good side would be that quality cubs get to be bred. people right now -after they breed- just sell the cubs, even if they are poor quality, as they have to wait for that 20 days wait anyway, so why not try to sell? if this is introduced, then the excessive poor quality cubs get to be chased off and not into the market, making it a true competition between players to produce and sell better quality cubs, concentrating finally on quality. And of course breeding within your own pride gets faster -but please note- it wont produce excess amount of cubs. As if you keep the cub, then the 20 days waiting time is still in place.

If you kept track of when your girls came into heat, and didn't breed all of them at once, there would be a steady introduction of newborns in your pride.
Now what you are talking about here, is the one and only thing that is leading to the reduced prices of cubs. Breeding every female, always have a steady flow of cubs, so: mass breeding. This is something I am looking to avoid. I have my chosen female which has the markings I like, so I am breeding that. Not each female in my pride whenever they come into heat...

No offense, but this entire suggestion honestly comes across as an "I want all my cubs to be born perfect because my luck stinks with getting what I want!" complaint.
I am sorry if I came off like that. but actually this is one of the points why I want it -hence it does need to have a good effect on me and my pride as well if I want it, no? Even with this shorter waiting time it will take time of course to get the cub I want, I am well aware of that. But I dont have to gnaw on my nails and count like crazy to see how many times I can try with my lioness until she dies... Which in this case would be about... 3-4 more breedings without any cubs surviving.

he certainly doesn't chase off his own cubs just to breed his lionesses faster.
Just a note on this: it all depends on the male lion's personality. Yes, in some cases the male lion does kill its own cubs. If he finds the lioness's hiding place where the newborn cubs are. Why do you think the lioness is giving birth away from the pride? And there had been plenty cases of male lion killing its cubs when they tried to play with him. sadly.

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The proposed feature is realistic - One of the reasons why lions kill the cubs, soemtimes their own included, is to force the lioness into heat faster. As soon as the cubs are out of the way, the body's endocrynous system starts working to stop the lactation, induce ovulation and prepare the female body for the next impregnation.

Therefore, on the account of realism, I support this fully, and to hells with the cub trades effects!

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It seems to me that there are two major goals in the game. The original goal (fighting for territory, having good cubs within your own pride, and hunting enough to feed your pride), and the new goal (breed pretty cubs to sell for SB).

Honestly, I like both, but I prefer to work within my own pride. If I want new blood, I can win another piece of territory and a) buy a new lioness or b) claim one while exploring.

But I do want my pride to be the best it can be, and for that, I support the original idea. I would probably chase a cub before selling it, because if I don't want it, who does? And reducing the waiting period would be extremely helpful.

Example: I bought a lioness. She was Lvl. 6 when I got her and had awhile left for breeding cool down. I can't remember the exact amount of days, but she had clearly had her cubs chased off. She's beautiful, and I'd love to breed her, but she's getting older, and I still have to wait.

So in the end, I support this idea. It's realistic, and it helps those of us who decide not to focus on trading and selling.

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