Posted by Let Male Leopons Breed

JAX •
[3.12.21|MAZI nRLC+
👑] (#98288)

Divine
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Posted on
2018-02-05 03:56:04
So, recently I bought and Kinged a Leopon boy as a sort of 'final project and achievement' since I don't plan to be here terribly long afterwards after I breed and spread bone lace, bone inverted zebra, and make one final attempt to King a Sextafulv. Possibly to breed mandarin, so if you happen to breed a tigon, give me a tap on the shoulder friend ;)

Anyway, back to the suggestion. I noticed....my pon cannot breed. At all.

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From a realistic standpoint, I can see the justification of this I guess. Male hybrids are often sterile....however the females tend to be fertile. Take the Savannah cat for example. First generation males cannot breed, however once you get around the 5th, 4th, and sometimes even 3rd Generation of Males, fertility can and does return. These males can and do sire kittens. My particular Leopon is a 5th or 6th generation pon and falls well within this range, so if realism is an issue for you, consider that as an argument. Also consider that the way Lioden handles leopons isn't particular realistic either. The only felines who could produce a leopon are a pure blooded lioness and a pure-blooded leopard.. A leopon crossed with a lion would produce a li-leopon or a leopard would produce a leo-leopon, later a li-li-leopon and so on down the line with more and more convoluted names. It should be noted that male leopons have apparently successfully fathered cubs before with other hybrids (ligers to be exact), to produce the Leoliger. There does not appear to be a source for this claim however.

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So, you see, there is a factual basis for this implementation.

As for the actual Implementation, I have two propositions:

Simple Implementation


Leopons would operate just as any male would, however inverse of the Primal. That is to say, the females can breed their mutation and pass it along while males would exist and never be able to pass their mutation. A 'pon siring another 'pon would be entirely predicated on the female pon and would be no different than studding to any other male. They'd essential be NPMs (Non-passing Muties) and their mutation would be purely aesthetic. Still, wouldn't it be cool to have a pon as the father of your cubs? So that's one (and I suspect will be the most popular) way we could do it. Generation would not matter in this implementation. A first or 50th generation of pon would be able to breed.

Considering there is basis for leopon breeding in reality and Lioden isn't realistic itself, there's no real reason I or any other future pon Kings should be restricted from breeding.


Bolstering Implementation


Leopons would never pass their mutation with other, normal lions, however if another Leopon bred with them they could bolster the chances of that pon. Now before you start crying and hit the no support button, let me clarify.
- First and Second Gen Male Pons would never be able to breed.
- This would be restricted to later generation male leopons. 3rd Gen Leopons would have a 25% chance of being fertile, 4th Gens a 50% chance, 5th Gens a 75%, and 6th and onward a 100% fertility chance. Each fertility chance bolsters a leoponess differently:
* 3rd Gen Male Pons would bolster a female by 4%. 4th Gen Male Pons would only bolster by 3%, 5th Gens by 2%, and 6th Gens by 1%. I am not sure if FGPs should have their base 10% improved upon in this manner, but am interested in hearing what you all think.
- Pons would still be able to breed normally with other lions, and would still not pass their mutation. I'm not sure how to marry this and the Pon x Pon specific breeding, concerning bolstering and passing, but maybe an item could be available to non-fertile leopons in the Oasis, similar to a Vuka Vuka. This way users would not have to take an unnecessarily huge risk when kinging a pon who's earlier than 6th generation. Even if he turns out not to be compatible with other pons, they should still be able to breed him to their other lions. This item would not suddenly make them Pon x Pon bolstering compatible.
- Male Leopons would have Hybrid Vigor. Hybrid vigor occurs when the offspring of two species is physically fitter and healthier than either parent. Lions have an energy bar of 100%. Perhaps a Leopon King, in a Trade off for his low fertility, could have more energy to spare for other things. Alternatively the vigor could be breeding specific and not be affected by things like explore, sparring, ect.
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Pon/Pon specific breeding interface. Obviously, 'pon breeders will be interested in any stud who raises their base chance to breed a leopon. Reverse 'pon breeders will also be interested, so this is potentially another market that could be created. There could be a separate division on the "Studding Services" bit that allows Leopon Kings to set prices specifically for any female leopon choosing their services and trying to bolster their chances. Female Leopons would be required to choose this option and would not be allowed to stud normally like a lioness would. Leopon Studding would have a minimum price based on how many marks that particular Leopon has. For example: my boy has 10 marks. His base price would be 10gb per 'Pon studding. Considering Pon breeders could sell any potential Leopons for 50x times that much upon breeding them, I'd be willing to raise the minimum price to 2gb per mark instead of just 1gb.

A complaint I foresee this having is that it would potentially make pons "too common", but I disagree. The percentage bolstering is honestly not that large, plus there have only been two Leopon Kings in the entire history of the website-- Leviathan and more recently my own boy. Likely, because of the huge expense getting a cub/adol pon and the almost universal tendency for male pons to be sex changed into females for breeding, Leopon males will remain rare.


Of these methods, which would you prefer? Please tell me of any add ons or concerns you have below, but more importantly...

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Let him breed!






This suggestion has 363 supports and 97 NO supports.



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Edited on 05/02/18 @ 14:55:55 by Jaxapon [LeoponSunsetKing] (#98288)

Noxa (#34513)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-05-15 13:01:16
I support the idea of being able to king a leopon and have it breed like a normal lion. Originally I wanted a leopon king because I adored the lines, but when I learned I cannot breed a leopon king, my entire desire to get a leopon faded away completely.

I think if the option to king a leopon would result in a breedable male lion still, I would be more interested in trying to obtain one again. Otherwise, there really isn't a point in having a male leopon.



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Phantom StarsX (#92256)

Scourge of Lions
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Posted on
2018-05-18 16:05:01
Huge support for male leopons being able to breed, that always disappointed me.



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pipsqueak🌙 (alt) (#144555)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-05-19 20:12:51
I don't support this for two reasons:
Yes, Lioden's realism for Leopons is at fault, but is anything else in this game realistic? It's a game about fictional lions performing fictional tasks to apeal to the player. Realism is not huge part of Lioden, and it should stay as such.
Another reason is the rarity. Since Leopons are more difficult to breed it results in a rare species. That's what really puts the fun in this game. If you were to make Leopons more easy to get then what would be the fun in that? People are already doing this, with a few people having about ten Leopons in their pride. People would then storm in and complain about wanting a new species that's harder to get. Having a Pon as a king is a huge achievement, but having it should stay as having disadvantages.
But on some standards I agree. Maybe make the Leopon fertile but a small chance of passing on a mutation.
Truly, I see where you are coming from, but I just don't like the idea of this.



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Blue Pigeon 🐦 (#68580)

Warrior
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Posted on
2018-05-20 01:39:40
Kn33, the simple implementation (which is the one Jax is now forwarding) explicitly states that male leopons wouldn't be able to pass the mutation. Instead, this is about letting male leopons become fertile capable of breeding normal cubs - an 'inverse of the Primal' lions, where the males can pass on the primal mutation but females can't.



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pipsqueak🌙 (alt) (#144555)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-05-20 08:14:35
@Blue, I see I hadn't realized that. Thanks for the clarification.



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Alabai (#28971)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2018-05-20 16:03:17
I'm not even going to argue. In the concept of game mechanics, it makes very little sense to allow you to king your 'pon, if you cannot use him to breed your own females and make your own cubs.

It doesn't serve any game purpose. You can make rules to protect him from passing anything "exclusive" down, if those are concerns, if you all want to argue about that, have at- but having a "sterile" king is kind of silly, all things considered... why even allow male 'pons to be kinged if they cannot perform the basic king functions?

Let them breed, and if you want to hash out the hows and what-happens-then, I'm tapping out because I am not a Leopon-focused breeder, so the details are not mine to fully comprehend. The basic game functions, however, aught to be accessible by ALL kings.



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JAX •
[3.12.21|MAZI nRLC+
👑] (#98288)

Divine
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Posted on
2018-05-21 10:50:44
"hy even allow male 'pons to be kinged if they cannot perform the basic king functions?" Basically this.



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Black Rhinoceros (#68593)

Divine
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Posted on
2018-05-22 04:27:05
support



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Sanity [clean ehr
patch] (#12917)

Merciful
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Posted on
2018-08-20 10:30:27
Support, support, support.

I'm a fan of the simple implementation, and only the simple implementation; anything more complicated would be unnecessary, I think. It would be like having a Dwarf king. It has no bearing on breeding or passing whatsoever, and is just for people who want those lines on their king. I'm sure this is implied with the simple implementation, but Kimanjano and Mottled Rosette would NOT have a higher pass rate than from a non-Leopon king. Only from the female.

Same for Tigons, later on.



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Sarkshine (#138592)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-08-23 10:12:35
Simple implement gets a solid support here



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