Posted by Actual Queens! ( Not lab frogged kings )
Readytest (#431796)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2023-06-25 19:53:02
So people suggested I make my own topic, so I did! I'm going to place all my Add-ons to making such thing possible as to balance everything out!

So basically what if we could make our lionesses the main lion(ess)? No, I don't mean lab frogging a male lion, I mean a female lioness becoming queen.

Obviously, this needs some work to be plausible.
Issues:

- Without the role of main male, breeding is near impossible without the help of studding, even then it costs SB
- Potential crunchy worm abuse; win a RLC, queen her on your side, and choose "keep king looks" each time you choose a heir.
- questions like "Lionesses can't do anything while nesting, how will this leader work?" And "you can't breed her as much because main males can breed for as much territory they have! What use is this female leader?"
- the fact that 16 years go fast on this game..

...So I propose many rebuttals to fix those issues!

Starting with:

- Sub males are breedable IF there's a queen, even then, they can only breed to the queen.

- If not for that, you can rarely find a wandering stud who'll breed to one or two of your lionesses OR your queen for free. The stud is randomized, and can very, VERY rarely have a mutation.

- You cannot keep a female leader's looks when time comes to choose a heir, BUT you get benefits ( see benefits below )

- your queen in heat can also stud to one's main male

- all text will be readjusted to accommodate for your queen's gender.

- If your queen is nesting, you need to set a temporarily monarch who will lead the pride and such for your queen

- your queen CAN go exploring like kings.

----------------

Potential benefits and nerfs:

Benefits would make some players see having a female leader as a strategy they can use, even though with the things I listed -- an un-utilized mechanic, which those players might call an underrated gem of a mechanic. There's the potential benefits:

+ +50 energy
+ speed based battle moves are more likely to hit ( Charge, pounce, etc. )
+ Heat cooldown reduction ( -10 days or -5 days. )
+ 1-2 extra heats
+ 1 extra sub male slot for Queens reign
+ attack lions for sub male slots
+ The queen may go hunting with the others, or maybe even broodmother! Hunting can be simulated in explore, obviously each step in hunting will take energy.
+ suggest some more if you want!

Beware! There can be nerfs, too! These are in place as to balance out a female leader.

- The extra sub male slot will disappear once the queen's reign is over
- you can ONLY attack for sub male slots as a queen
- Obviously lionesses can't keep looks once the time comes for a heir to be kinged/queened to prevent abuse with crunchy worms.
- Suggest some more if you want!




This suggestion has 3 supports and 90 NO supports.



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[ heartbroken ] [ G3
] (#209190)

Graceful
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Posted on
2023-07-05 00:22:38
As an aside, I’m pretty sure there is a restriction that requires new accounts to be a few weeks/months old before they can make posts in the game dev’t forums- or at least there was back when I made this account. I wouldn’t want that restriction to be extended to more than 3 months, especially because new suggestions aren’t hurting anyone. Though I do think someone should make a guide for folks who came from Wolvden so they know the why behind Lioden not having certain functions/features- might also be helpful for new players coming from WD wondering what to expect from LD and what the major gameplay differences between each site are.



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Aura/Samuel (#208852)

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Posted on
2023-07-05 00:29:02
^ I agree with that especially since I've seen a few new players who don't know lioden is the older site



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Edited on 05/07/23 @ 00:29:40 by Aura/Akela (#208852)

IIV0I [G2|7x Ros|11x
BO|Ferus] (#407996)

Prince of Terror
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Posted on
2023-07-06 15:30:23
no support - I just dont think this is a good idea, I feel like its kinda pointless and will lead to abuse of certain features or loopholes that will only further tank the clone market and stuff



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Edited on 06/07/23 @ 15:32:49 by IIV0I [G2|7x Ros|11x BO|Ferus] (#407996)

Readytest (#431796)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2023-07-06 22:19:34
This suggestion isn't even on the list tho.

And we will patch those loopholes when we need to.



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Mad Hyena (#29080)

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Posted on
2023-07-07 05:17:41
Why going through extremes and patching loopholes that a new feature creates when the best option is do nothing and leave it how it already is, tho?

Some suggestions just dont fit to Lioden. There's been 0 supporters of this idea, so it is VERY unlikely this idea is ever going to be considered. And all you suggest is "lets make this happen and doesnt matter how much complications and issues it raises, we can fix those as they come!" - that's not a good idea. Lioden admins already have WAY too many issues to address to. They dont need another unbalanced, unfitting feature added on game that will need a lot of patches and adjustments to even be made feasible, they already have their hands full trying to fix other features!



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peepy (#48100)

Savage
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Posted on
2023-07-07 05:41:59
For this to work, submale breeding would need to be implemented. And submale breeding has been a rejected suggestion since submales were implemented. There is no way you can twist this that wouldn't loop back to submale breeding. Any male that isn't your main male (or in this case, female) is a submale



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Mad Hyena (#29080)

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Posted on
2023-07-07 07:23:48
I find the following steps to be helpful when developing an idea.
1) What is the core of the idea? Why do I want that implemented?
2) Are there any similar features already? Why do they not work for what I wish, why do they need to be revised to offer better functionality? Can these existed features be changed a bit to achieve what I want, or does it need an entirely new feature?
3) If the suggestion is not supported - find another idea that could offer me the Core I wish, but avoid the negative points raised by other people. Is there another way to reach what I wish to be added, and if so, what it is?

Try this, perhaps? Answer these questions - the suggestion "actual queens" is unfeasible, its got too many issues and problems to fix all of them - so what else can be done for similar result to the one you wished with it?

Start over from the basics. What is it that you want, exactly, to get in this suggestion? Why Lab Test Frogs arent enough for you, why do you wish it to necessary be only queens and not the way it works now? What is the Core of this suggestion for you, what changes do you wish to see from the way it is now?
Is it the pronouns issue, and you mostly want your king to be addressed as "queen"/"she"?
Do you want pregnant art to be displayed on your queen's image, or nursing cubs shown on her page?
Or do you want breedable submales, after all, which IS a rejected suggestion?



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Edited on 07/07/23 @ 08:36:34 by Mad Hyena (#29080)

Readytest (#431796)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2023-07-07 12:15:48
" Why Lab Test Frogs arent enough for you, why do you wish it to necessary be only queens and not the way it works now? What is the Core of this suggestion for you, what changes do you wish to see from the way it is now?
Is it the pronouns issue, and you mostly want your king to be addressed as "queen"/"she"?
Do you want pregnant art to be displayed on your queen's image, or nursing cubs shown on her page? "
- Mad Hyena (#29080)
Yes, it is the pronouns issue when it comes to things like referring to your lead. Someone might get offended by the game misgendering their queen over, over, and over again and resort to venting/raging about it online.
Yes, it is also so pregnant art and weaning cubs can be shown on your lead. Some may see the "male" lioness weaning and assume that the game is assuming males can wean cubs, which the player might find impossible and misogynistic/transphobic
Lab test frogs still refer your "queen" as a male, which someone might find transphobic/misogynistic too, which comes back to the weaning/pregnant poses.
And I doubt there's no way to actually implement this -- little steps to victory and trial and error will benefit you, after all.



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peepy (#48100)

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Posted on
2023-07-07 12:30:55
The problem is that you can't really trial and error your way to success with a game that is already live. If loopholes exist, people will exploit them. It doesn't matter if you can patch it, the damage will already be done by the time a fix is released. And there are *a lot* of loopholes with this suggestion.

Personally, I believe that the game could benefit from having pronouns be updated, or at least more gender-neutral language being an option. I don't see an issue with your leader still being the insemimator even if she is female; if anything it's a trans win!

A language update would be entirely cosmetic, so there would be no changes to gameplay. No additional systems being added or removed, just flavour text adjustment.



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Readytest (#431796)

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Posted on
2023-07-07 12:33:37
Maybe make the female leader thingy not able to be used until we fix it all up? I mean, only admins would have that option until all the loopholes are patched up.



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Fiery Lioness (#298660)

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Posted on
2023-07-07 12:39:24
This can actually take more time and steps than you think.

-The coders will have to make a lot of adjustments if this was planned to be implemented
-The developers need to figure out a way for the queen to breed for free (because sub male breeding is rejected)
-Coding this in can be very difficult with the add-ons
-Changing text everywhere takes a long time

I also found out the developers want wolvden to be different compared to lioden. Adding female leaders to lioden will make lioden more like wolvden.

Female leaders just can’t be added to lioden; it’s a big change, so much work has to be done to implement it, and it’s very time-consuming.



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peepy (#48100)

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Posted on
2023-07-07 12:40:21
Who is "we"? Are you staff or something?

And yes there are test servers, but things can still slip through the cracks. That's the nature of working on a live game! I have worked on several and shit slips through more often than you'd imagine...

There's also the time factor. What's the point in putting in so much work and hours into a feature that only one person wants? The staff are already working their asses off on male poses, new bases/markings/etc, decoration adjustment, and not to mention the entire site recode! Don't forget, this website is over a decade old! It was built on a now obsolete system that is preventing them from adding things they already decided on adding.



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Readytest (#431796)

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Posted on
2023-07-07 12:45:53
I said the wrong words by talking about the staff.
And yes, there are test servers, but I believe it should be restricted to only use int test servers.
The devs could add a raffle stud or free studs encounterable in explore, so Queens could breed with them. If you logged into the main servers with a queen, you'd be forced to choose a king for now until the lioness leader function is fully worked on and ready to be used in main servers.
Maybe the devs could work on many other things before taking this challenge on? It seems like too much work for now.



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Mad Hyena (#29080)

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Posted on
2023-07-07 12:46:08
There are already several suggestions for pronouns choice, and I underline the choice here. Someone's king might look like a male but be a maned lioness instead. Or someone's king - like mine - could look like a female but still use "he" pronouns, my king for instance is melanistic leopard for my RP view, not even a lion. So, am I not allowed to Lab Test Frog him now, because somebody might think a lioness-looking stud is "transphobic/misogynistic"? OR not allowed to have a Lab Test Frogged lioness because I want story of a single dad who is raising his cubs with love from their very first day?..

I agree with peepy; "small trial and error steps" are not working for a game of 10 years old with its own well and thoroughly footed ecosystem. They produce chaos to an already very complex system. In the first year when July event story was replaced with Celestial Explore, admins were madly overworked just trying to balance the battling encounters and drop rates. JUST the little things in the new fighting area have already produced chaos in forums and in game, and a huge feature like this cannot possibly be added with "ah we'll fix it along the way". It will be a literal disaster for the game. Wolvden is NEW, its only a year old. Lioden was founded TEN years ago.



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Readytest (#431796)

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Posted on
2023-07-07 12:48:53
I don't see it that way, I'm talking about the users who take it to the extreme.



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