0clock, letting the new "frozen" system run for 4-6 months would be terrible. Once again, static leaderboards, and static stat gain. I know there would be a hell of a lot of people pissed off enough to leave until the frozen method was removed. I'd stash my higher stat gals on a friend's side account til then, and not bother to do one hunt more than I needed to feed my pride, because honestly, what would the point be? I don't have lions on the leaderboard now, so with a frozen system I never would, unless I spent 100GB or more to buy from the highest ranked people.

And how is changing the cooldown to 10-15 minutes better than having limited skips? People who don't skip could then do 80-120 hunts a day (going off of the most active hunts managing 40 a day currently without skipping), which is up to 240 stats a day. You have the massive boom again, except this time the site isn't even profiting from it e.e

Limiting the amount of hunts that can be skipped per day is our best bet, whether that's by having refills capped at 40, or hunt skips increase exponentially in price per set of ten.

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The massive issue, Oclock, isn't the skips, it's the lack of the ability of adding hunts. As Cytosine says, it would make the stat market and leaderboards utterly stagnant as no one would be able to get in more than 10 hunts on a day on a single lioness. As a stat breeder, the lack of friendly competition and the ability to hunt my lionesses 25 times a day regardless of a skip function, and I have nothing to do on-site.

The damage was already done by the 100 SB skips and unlimited hunts, and the people that had the money to take advantage at the time and got to the leaderboards or close to them will stay there for life due to the new system, as well as their offspring. There is nothing wrong about pointing out the faults within a system from the get-go when they're obvious, hell, I knew from the beginning 100 SB skips and unlimited hunts would be an issue, and I posted a thread about possible fixes days before we got adding hunts removed. This 'fix', in my honest opinion, is the worst one they could have chosen.

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Cytosine, What I am trying to explain though is this: the system that caused the high stat lionesses was 100sb skips with unlimited 10sb additional hunts, that system is being scrapped. It is not an option in the poll, because it was causing these problems. The high-statted lionesses still exist, but what is done about those is not the issue this poll is about, it is a separate issue.

Option 2 wouldn't make it possible at all to do this, options 1, 3 and 4 would make it possible, in theory, but too expensive to be worth it much. 2, though, makes things easier for people who do not have a lot of time to hunt, which is ostensibly why it is a popular choice for casual players[as it makes feeding daily easier], but it would remove the challenge for those who play for stat raising because of the removal of extra hunts from lionesses, limiting the amount of stats they can get[aside from the occasional gain from feeding] to 10 to 20 a day.

I think a combination of options 2 and 4 might be a better solution here. Keep skips cheap and unlimited like option 2, but instead of scrapping extra hunts, make them get progressively more expensive. A hard cap would give the same issues as option 2, but maybe exponential growth in the price of extra hunts per lioness, that would keep it easy to buy some extra hunts, but hard to abuse it, even for the rich. With [for example] the first one being 10 sb, the second, 20, then 40, 80, 160, 320, 660, etc. At some point the gain will be soft-capped for the day because it will be impossible for even the most dedicated stat raisers to afford the exponential price.

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What Shichibi and Cytosine said. All Option 2 does is alienate the players that spend spare time on the game and take away their option to enjoy their play-style in the way they enjoy.

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After going through several pages of comments there seems to be a general air of superiority against the more... 'casual' players... as if they're lesser/don't matter and should not be catered to or have their opinions considered because they may not necessarily have the time/money to sink into the site as the more hardcore folks- which I find a bit disheartening.

Anyway the current SB skip is nice because I (and I'm sure many others) don't really have endless hours to constantly visit and refresh hunts or resort to spending wads of cash on GB to compensate for low activity. Right now I can stock up on food and feel comfortable that if I, say, don't play for a few days, I won't have to worry about my lionesses starving and running away before I can run enough hunts to feed them. I imagine this would help those with massive/capped dens a lot in that regard.

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Griff, problem is, that punishes those who are actively getting 25+ hunts a day without skipping.

And worm, it's less superiority, more concern that those who are less involved in the community aren't realising the impact that option 2 would have on stats, prices, leaderboards and the economy.

I managed my two dens of 70-90 lionesses plus cubs just fine with the 10SB refills and no skips by feeding every third day. And once again, food is cheaper to buy than it is to skip hunts, so not really a valid point ^^"

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I don't think people skip hunts for food, as buying food is way cheaper than skipping hunt.
A hunt give you like 2-5 uses of food, and you can buy this for 10-35sb, then why would you spend 100sb to get that food?
Hunt skipping is for stats. Not for food.

And there is no problem with casual players. Just that I feel like it's normal if players who spend a lot of time gets a little more than those who just spend 30 minutes on it. As someone said (don't remember the name, I'm sorry), if you spend 5 hours studying, you may have better grades than someone who doesn't study. And that's normal. The same way, if you spend 3 hours per day drawing, you will probably do better drawings than someone who draw once a month. And that's normal. Efforts and time needs rewards.

And this second option, on a long term, will have negative effects for everyone. The olders, the newest, the casual, the addicted, etc. Because it would totally freeze the leaderboards and the markets. Only a few handfull of players will have access to those high-stats lions and other people would not be able to reach their level. Having high stats lions will not be about efforts anymore, it will be about the money you can spend on leaderboard studs and cubs.

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Exactly, Cytosine.Because I spend a ludicrous amount of time on-site, I believe I have slightly better insight than someone who logs on for a couple hunts. I'm active within the community and interact with a fair pool of others on-site.

Now, there won't be any way to get a low stat lion up to 2k within their lifetime. If you get a low-stat lion, it'll excruciatingly slow to increase them. The only way for newer players without statted lions to get them would be to buy, instead of gradually work towards them with training and breeding. It's just as bad for non-stat breeders that want stats in future, they'll be eve harder for them to get than for stat breeder to maintain.

I'm getting off since I have no desire to roll this account over with no ability to add hunts, but I'll be stalking, and possibly communicating via one of my friends. I really do hope the best thing is chosen, and, from my point of view, 2 is the worst possible option for everyone.

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@Bilby, the factor doesn't have to be a full 2, it can be any factor that makes it feasible to buy 15 extra hunts per lioness for a decent price but impossible to brute force 1000+ hunts per day by just skipping. it would make it a bit more expensive, but still plausible to earn by exploring.

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Griff: Do take into account it's easily feasible to do 30 (I've done up to 40 on a good day) hunts without skipping, which I do on a fairly regular basis, though 25+ is typical. With 5 lionesses at the old rate that's 1500 SB, which is crazy, and barely possible to break even with selling carcasses (to the monkey) and the random SB drops you may get from explore. If it's set too much higher, it'd just be penalizing active players, in my honest opinion.

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@worm Exactly what Bilby said. I have absolutely nothing against casual players, against new players, against anything of the sort. I don't play nearly enough to be considered a hardcore or elite Lioden gamer. My highest stat lion that I got myself is in the range of 400 stats. Anything higher has been gifted to me.

The problem is that as a casual player, which I actually identify as, I can see that option 2 has extreme and detrimental impacts on the entire community, 'elite' and 'casual' alike.

The damage has already been done from the 100 sb to skip 10 sb to add hunts... Sunny dropped something in the range of 500,000 silver beetles just on the Lionesses she hunted with to hit 3800 HUNTS at 4 years old. This is a small fraction of what Sunny has, since her Lion, Sentry, was bringing in 300 GB per week as the highest stat lion in the game. 300 GB each week. Now Sunny has at least 3 lionesses sitting over 6500 stats, birthing out cubs near 2000 stats. Those lionesses are still young. The damage is done. Even if we end up with 100 SB to time skip and 0 added hunts, Sunny will sit atop the leaderboard for years. Unless people buy her lion cubs and somehow manage to get lucky while all the other lions are dying off, Sunny will always sit atop the leaderboard. Under a static system, it's unlikely that any lioness will ever even reach 6500 stats. Sunny could just play them out to 13/14 years and then freeze them on a side account and never, ever lose her spot because the actual potential to get that high is gone. How is that fair?

Edit: For the record, I don't think anyone did anything wrong in this case either. I don't think that Sunny or anyone else who used the system the way it was allowed to be used did anything wrong. I don't have anything against them for doing it. I should have worded the above more clearly to point that out. My point was just that if we are left with option 2, no one has even the slightest chance of making the leader boards because of the situation the way it is, not that anyone did anything wrong.

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That is a matter of finding a balance, though there's a point where you can't completely please everyone, though. Maybe the initial value could be lowered to 5 or so and the growth rate something like 1.1 [10%, rounding up/down to the nearest full sb.] that way the total price would not raise too much for being active without skipping[at 30 extra hunts the price per lioness would still be below 100 sb per hunt, and yes, it would count up to more than 1500 but even lower growth is possible, even a growth of 1% would make 1000+ hunts too expensive], but 10% over 5 would still make it impossible to add 100+extra hunts. [the price would be over 60k at 100].

5% growth over a starting point of 5 sb would probably be a good balance. It would make the first few hunts per lioness less than 10sb. but once you get past 100 every hunt will be more than 500 Sb apiece and growing quickly.

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Don't name names. Its not fair to point fingers. She did nothing wrong but take advantage of something Lioden gave us, just like many, many others did. There is no reason to try to make her out to be the cause or the issue. I won't have her feel unwelcome because someone simply want to make a point in their topic post thank you very much. Be considerate.

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It's true, she wasn't the only one to take advantage of the skips (I won't name names on the others, but you can't hide on the boards) but she does now effectively hold a monopoly. I don't blame her for it, as I'm sure many others would've attempted it of they had the funds to do so, the fault lies with the uncapped 100SB skips that allowed for it to happen instead.

I still feel that the increasing costs should be on the skips, rather than the refills, as the refills weren't the problem e.e
First ten skips still at 100SB is fine, keeps it as a reasonable SB sink without it being OP. But for each ten sets it should increase exponentially, creating a soft cap at c.40? Which coupled with a refill cap of 50 would keep it within a manageable range, I believe O:

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Just posting to show my agreement with what Cytosine, Greater Bilby and others before have said. While ostensibly a balancing measure, what implementing option 2 would achieve is preserving an imbalance between the highest stat users and those wishing to catch up. It was already very difficult to gain any ground through effort, and the only chance people had was by putting in the time required to get 20 to 30+ hunts a day using the add hunt feature and waiting 30 min each time. I feel it is important to reiterate that adding hunts only recently became an issue when used in conjunction with a relatively cheap way to speed through them. It was this combination of cheap skips and cheap additional hunts that needed to be fixed. "Fixing" it in a way that effectively removes the ability to achieve a goal of high stats through player effort is terribly short-sighted. Adding hunts should have a cost, but one that is still manageable for daily use by most players (not increasing exponentially, not GBs). Skipping needs to either be removed or given such a prohibitively high cost that it would eliminate abusing the skip+add hunt combo. This is just my opinion of course, but it is one that appears common to many committed players who are not in a position to buy leaderboard status.

Bottom line: If increasing stat parity is really a goal (which it definitely should be), then there must be a way for new players to bridge the gap without needing to pay for GBs.

Note: Personally I think an effective way to move towards parity would be to bring back the potential for multiple stat gains from hunting, ie each hunt gives each lioness stats using a model similar to submale patrol stat gains. Occasional multi stat boosts IN ADDITION to the ability to buy reasonably cheap additional hunts (without skips) would go a long way to allowing new players a chance to work towards the leaderboard. However, that's a different topic to discuss going forward. For now let's focus on not going backwards.

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