Posted by Raffle Lioness Tweaks

Blue [Full BO dawn] (#73123)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-03-14 09:06:35

Background Info


Hello!

I want to preface this with the fact that I am an old fart. I've been playing this game since 2015-- Almost 7 years! In those 7 years, there have been quite a few new players that have joined the game. Every week, everyone can have a chance at the raffle lioness.

Before, this used to cap at around 2,000 people-- Maybe 3,000 if it was a particularly gorgeous one.

As of the Tuesday I'm writing this, our current girl has 9902 entries and counting. I expect this to top off around 10,000 by the Friday she's drawn, meaning that 2,000 of old is *long* past by a factor of 5! This system was designed with the smaller numbers in mind!

The Problem


The raffle lioness is a special lioness meant to introduce new markings into the game, or refresh the old pool. She's a very special thing to win, but there are a few issues with her as she stands:

* She's nearly impossible to win.
* There are too many marks in too many possible slots that need to be fulfilled, so much so that 10 marks released a week doesn't really cut it.

When there were 2,000 people who wanted her, that was bad. With 10,000 people who want her, it's worse!

In short, demand has gone WAY up, and supply has remained the same.
Thalath summed it up beautifully: Too many marks, too many players, not enough lion.
We need to factor into account that the population of the site has increased since 2013.

Please note that I am NOT accusing the winners of hoarding marks! I also want to point out that it's HARD to let marks spread from a single lion only.

Some examples:
* Bushveld Brindle in slot 7 was released in October of 2022. There are currently 5 lions total with it.
* Fiery Brindle in slot 7 was released in June of 2022. There is currently 1 lion total with it.
* Shell Lace in slot 8 was released in July of 2017. There are currently 19 lions total with it.
* Feline 7 Ginger in slot 6 was released in April of 2017. There are currently 23 lions with it.

*Information has been gathered using the marking slot rarity Wiki page, and the raffle lioness directory pages.

This list can go on forever with a litany of how many markings we have, along with how many possible slots that can be filled.
For just a small sample size, there are 9 feline markings that can occur in 10 colors, making for 90 unique raffle feline markings. There are 10 possible slots that these can be released into, meaning that we're looking at about 900 separate slots and marks that need to be filled. There's 52 weeks in a year. If a lioness were released with nothing but unique feline markings in unique slots, it would take almost 2 years to get all of those out into circulation, which simply isn't reasonable. That said, there are a hell of a lot more raffle markings than just those few feline marks!

Proposed Solutions


1. More than 1 Raffle Lioness per week.
Event unlock numbers have scaled to accommodate more players, so why can't raffle lions? This one could be achieved in two separate ways:

1. Multiple copies of the SAME lioness per week.
2. Many different raffle lionesses per week.


This would get lionesses out to more hands per week, which is a greater opportunity for a marks to spread. It does not solve the possibility of marking hoarding, but it generally gets more markings out to more people. This resolves the issue of the old system being created for the smaller site traffic in mind.

If multiple copies of the same lioness are given out per week, it may feel as if they are losing how 'special' they are to people, though one could counter this with the existence of raffle lioness clones via crunchy worms. Multiple copies of every raffle lioness are almost guaranteed anyway, this would just create multiple lines of them genetically. Markings could spread more rapidly than some of the given examples above.

If multiple lionesses are given out per week, it allows for more diversity of markings to be released to the masses and stops the bottleneck of how slow dying marks take currently to be revived.

This does come with the cons that raffle lionesses may be deemed to be a little less special to the community (but remember winners getting harassed for winning?), and the human aspect that someone has to design these girls to be sent out, which may get taxing.

2. Each week a raffle lionesses is released, but a replica stud releases along with her.
Thank you to Angela!
This one is my personal preference. Let's think of August for a moment! We use August studs to quickly spread a bunch of markings to everyone, and everyone gets a fair chance to breed for what they'd like. It's all around a good system!

This option would see a regular raffle lionesses released per week, just as she is now. She'd also have a brother alongside her who can stud out to the community to release her marks on a much larger scale. Anyone who still wins the raffle lioness gets to keep a very special lady-- After all, a full breed-only lioness with g1 heritage is nothing to sneeze at! -- but those who may like her for her marks gets a chance at spreading those marks!

To keep it fair, you wouldn't be able to use breeding items with the stud, but you can still use items on your lioness. It's still pretty difficult to breed an exact copy, but it could get you close to it, and then you can shop with other players to get what you're looking for! This is a system we see on Wolvden already.

You could limit it to one lion breed per account, or you could make it a GB/SB sink-- Which is always needed in pet game economy to keep inflation from getting too high.

Suggestion: 2.5
The raffle stud system could mimic Wolvden's exactly, where everyone can take a chance to breed to the raffle stud. I'm quite partial to keeping the raffle lioness, though!

Space for Discussion



I do want to clarify that I do NOT want to get rid of the raffle lioness-- I personally have always loved the little mechanic.

I'd love to hear what you think! Are you interested? Do you think another idea would be better? Let me know! :)



This suggestion has 547 supports and 28 NO supports.



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Edited on 30/06/23 @ 21:32:39 by Blue [Full dawn, now public!] (#73123)

Thalath {Side} (#43831)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-03-14 09:09:37
I really want to see the "raffle stud" system. Supported!

Too many marks, too many players, not enough lion.



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Blue (#73136)

Unholy
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Posted on
2023-03-14 09:10:49
Ah, I really like how you summed that up! that's a really good way to phrase it. X) Thank you!



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⛄❄️Celeana🇹
🇳🇵🇸 (#374387)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2023-03-14 09:30:18
YES!!! My older sister has been playing since Beta version. She has never, NEVER once gotten a RL since after the game got a big boost. She owns 2 RL's and their markings are out-dated. She got them when the player base was still in the single K's.

Now, 3 of us, (me+ 2 sisters) are playing this game. None of us have gotten a single RL ever.

This forum was really thought out, put together nicely! Thank you! I also love the RL Stud idea!



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Michi (#349623)

Ill-Natured
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Posted on
2023-03-14 09:57:47
i agree! Ive given up on attempting to get a raffle lioness because of the mass amount of players



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🫧
𝓗𝓪𝓷𝓷𝓪
𝓱 🫧 (#131967)

Toxic
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Posted on
2023-03-14 10:00:51
I agree! I've been on since 2017 I believe and took a few years after I had kids but I've never, not once, won a raffle lioness. I would also think that the person who won the last raffle lioness would wait a week to re-enter so that it keeps it fair for everyone so that the winner can breath and breed the RL as well. But then again it might be "unfair" but it would also be unfair for the same winner to win more than once a month so there are 4 new winners a month. But I dunno.



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Blue (#73136)

Unholy
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Posted on
2023-03-14 10:06:20
I share the same sentiment as you guys-- I've quite literally bred 3 first generations hybrids myself but I still haven't managed to get any raffle lioness. One of my friends has bred something closer to 5, and still nothing-- It's just a pipe dream, and sort of disappointing! Especially when they dispense an important game mechanic!

@Hannah: They already have a cooldown timer on raffle lioness winners. If you win 1 week, you can't win the next. I'd imagine that would stay in place.



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crunchy 🌟 (#329598)


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Posted on
2023-03-14 10:30:58
I need this! So many rl I have prayed upon getting and have had no luck!



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🐉Giena
[he/they/hir]🧋 (#269975)

Buzzkill
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Posted on
2023-03-14 10:33:27
Maybe raffle studs like in wolvden? So there's a special lion, players enter for a chance to win, and on next Friday a few players win a chance to breed their lioness to raffle lion?



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Blue (#73136)

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Posted on
2023-03-14 10:38:29
@Giena: I added that as a suggestion! I'm quite partial to keeping the mechanic of the lioness, though!



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WarriorWolfeh [clean
G5 ferus] (#30992)

Total Chad
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Posted on
2023-03-14 12:28:05
I 1000% support this. It's just not fair that a lioness' markings barely get to be seen by anyone on the site past briefly looking at her picture while she's up on raffle. Lioden is only growing at this rate, and the chances get slimmer and slimmer



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Clementine (Reduced
Activity) (#34465)

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Posted on
2023-03-14 15:20:59
I also support changing it up a bit. I like the stud option, but I do want to keep RLs around.

I’m an older player as well, and when I first joined, not only were there fewer people around to enter the raffles, but there was also next to no demand for RLs and RLCs, at least not mainstream demand. This was also before clean breeding so heritageless lions weren’t valued any higher then either.

The RLs were also a lot different looking in general as well. I would describe the majority of them as more natural looking from what I remember. I was also around before poses and passable mutations, as well as hundreds of markings and probably bases as well, so that definitely contributes.

Sometime while I was on hiatus (so anytime between 2017 and 2022) something changed. I came back and suddenly there was a huge market for them. I’d bet it has something to do with them being more conventionally pretty now, as well as tons of new, mutations, markings, bases, poses, and being heritageless now that clean breeding is so popular.

Hoarding BO markings has become an even bigger problem and RLs are unable to properly serve their original purpose as long as hoarding of them and their markings is so easy.



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Edited on 14/03/23 @ 15:25:09 by Clementine (Reduced Activity) (#34465)

Blue [Full BO dawn] (#73123)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-03-14 16:13:19
I think the reason why raffle lions became so popular is because of the crunchy worm item-- Theoretically, you could functionally have an immortal line of that raffle lioness, and since she can pass cubs, you can have king copies.

I do definitely want to keep raffle lions-- I absolutely adore them, and I still think they should be some degree of special. I also think that even if you have 3 raffle lions a week vs 1, it's still rare if there are over 10,000 entries; Think the July raffle lions.

I'm quite partial to the idea with a lioness and a stud for that reason!



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|✦Tacatto✦| (#14803)


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Posted on
2023-03-15 09:47:05
More than one RL a week is a lot to ask for one person to be making. I also don't like the idea of more than one copy because that just feels cheap. Not to mention the quality of the RL have gone up with the demand. They are gen one and they are high in BO assets.
The September 6th, 2013 Raffle Lioness had 3 BO markings and a BO Base. She didnt even have 10 markings. The March 10th, 2023 has BO Base, Mane color and shape, Skin, and 10 BO Markings. That is a very big difference in quality. Hoarding has always been an issue. I remember when Lilacs used to be pretty hard to obtain. I have been on since 2013 and have never won a lioness. Everyone has one week to try for her. I know it is hard to get one, but that is what makes it all worth it now. Being that 1 in 10,000 to win a really good, G1 and full BO lioness. I hate that some people hoard rare qualities, but that is just how they wish to play and I am here to at least respect that. There is always RMAs you can use to try and get a rare slow marking. (not to mention when there was 2000 people trying for the RL there was only about 50000 members back then. it was still hard because the members trying to members registered was still the same ratio. )

I can support a stud option but I do not support making more than one RL a week. Still iffy on the idea of it being the same RL as a stud, but maybe just a randomly put together, or randomly generated, Stud with whatever new marks just got released. That way the winner can still enjoy their lioness without feeling less about their accomplishment. Winning the RL is like winning the lottery. It was never meant to be easy.



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Thalath {Side} (#43831)

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Posted on
2023-03-15 10:01:14
You could also make the same argument that it's also not really meant to be "difficult", necessarily. Entering the raffle isn't difficult, nor does it require any significant effort. It's completely random whether or not you win. I'm not really sure that I'd conflate "luck" and "difficulty", which is kind of an issue games like this just have persistently as they're almost entirely luck based... though I suppose this is neither here nor there.



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Edited on 15/03/23 @ 10:01:52 by Thalath {Side} (#43831)

🌈Rainbow (#66036)


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Posted on
2023-03-15 10:04:19
I support both options. A suggestion I have is having 3 raffle lionesses but with different bases, marks, ect. Give more variety and you can only choose one. That should help with the numbers I say.



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