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| Posted by | Raffle Lioness Tweaks |
 Blue [Full BO dawn] (#73123) 
Holy View Forum Posts  Posted on 2023-03-14 09:06:35 |
Background InfoHello! I want to preface this with the fact that I am an old fart. I've been playing this game since 2015-- Almost 7 years! In those 7 years, there have been quite a few new players that have joined the game. Every week, everyone can have a chance at the raffle lioness. Before, this used to cap at around 2,000 people-- Maybe 3,000 if it was a particularly gorgeous one. As of the Tuesday I'm writing this, our current girl has 9902 entries and counting. I expect this to top off around 10,000 by the Friday she's drawn, meaning that 2,000 of old is *long* past by a factor of 5! This system was designed with the smaller numbers in mind! The ProblemThe raffle lioness is a special lioness meant to introduce new markings into the game, or refresh the old pool. She's a very special thing to win, but there are a few issues with her as she stands: * She's nearly impossible to win. * There are too many marks in too many possible slots that need to be fulfilled, so much so that 10 marks released a week doesn't really cut it. When there were 2,000 people who wanted her, that was bad. With 10,000 people who want her, it's worse! In short, demand has gone WAY up, and supply has remained the same. Thalath summed it up beautifully: Too many marks, too many players, not enough lion. We need to factor into account that the population of the site has increased since 2013. Please note that I am NOT accusing the winners of hoarding marks! I also want to point out that it's HARD to let marks spread from a single lion only. Some examples: * Bushveld Brindle in slot 7 was released in October of 2022. There are currently 5 lions total with it. * Fiery Brindle in slot 7 was released in June of 2022. There is currently 1 lion total with it. * Shell Lace in slot 8 was released in July of 2017. There are currently 19 lions total with it. * Feline 7 Ginger in slot 6 was released in April of 2017. There are currently 23 lions with it. *Information has been gathered using the marking slot rarity Wiki page, and the raffle lioness directory pages. This list can go on forever with a litany of how many markings we have, along with how many possible slots that can be filled. For just a small sample size, there are 9 feline markings that can occur in 10 colors, making for 90 unique raffle feline markings. There are 10 possible slots that these can be released into, meaning that we're looking at about 900 separate slots and marks that need to be filled. There's 52 weeks in a year. If a lioness were released with nothing but unique feline markings in unique slots, it would take almost 2 years to get all of those out into circulation, which simply isn't reasonable. That said, there are a hell of a lot more raffle markings than just those few feline marks! Proposed Solutions1. More than 1 Raffle Lioness per week. Event unlock numbers have scaled to accommodate more players, so why can't raffle lions? This one could be achieved in two separate ways: 1. Multiple copies of the SAME lioness per week. 2. Many different raffle lionesses per week. This would get lionesses out to more hands per week, which is a greater opportunity for a marks to spread. It does not solve the possibility of marking hoarding, but it generally gets more markings out to more people. This resolves the issue of the old system being created for the smaller site traffic in mind. If multiple copies of the same lioness are given out per week, it may feel as if they are losing how 'special' they are to people, though one could counter this with the existence of raffle lioness clones via crunchy worms. Multiple copies of every raffle lioness are almost guaranteed anyway, this would just create multiple lines of them genetically. Markings could spread more rapidly than some of the given examples above. If multiple lionesses are given out per week, it allows for more diversity of markings to be released to the masses and stops the bottleneck of how slow dying marks take currently to be revived. This does come with the cons that raffle lionesses may be deemed to be a little less special to the community (but remember winners getting harassed for winning?), and the human aspect that someone has to design these girls to be sent out, which may get taxing. 2. Each week a raffle lionesses is released, but a replica stud releases along with her. Thank you to Angela! This one is my personal preference. Let's think of August for a moment! We use August studs to quickly spread a bunch of markings to everyone, and everyone gets a fair chance to breed for what they'd like. It's all around a good system! This option would see a regular raffle lionesses released per week, just as she is now. She'd also have a brother alongside her who can stud out to the community to release her marks on a much larger scale. Anyone who still wins the raffle lioness gets to keep a very special lady-- After all, a full breed-only lioness with g1 heritage is nothing to sneeze at! -- but those who may like her for her marks gets a chance at spreading those marks! To keep it fair, you wouldn't be able to use breeding items with the stud, but you can still use items on your lioness. It's still pretty difficult to breed an exact copy, but it could get you close to it, and then you can shop with other players to get what you're looking for! This is a system we see on Wolvden already. You could limit it to one lion breed per account, or you could make it a GB/SB sink-- Which is always needed in pet game economy to keep inflation from getting too high. Suggestion: 2.5 The raffle stud system could mimic Wolvden's exactly, where everyone can take a chance to breed to the raffle stud. I'm quite partial to keeping the raffle lioness, though! Space for DiscussionI do want to clarify that I do NOT want to get rid of the raffle lioness-- I personally have always loved the little mechanic. I'd love to hear what you think! Are you interested? Do you think another idea would be better? Let me know! :) |
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Thalath {Side} (#43831)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:01:36 |
Bluie's point is that if they have to keep rereleasing old marks, it puts new marks in a chokehold of potentially never seeing a release for years, which I'm pretty confident in saying isn't the staff's intention. In this scenario, there's literally no point in releasing new raffle marks if they're not going to be released through the primary vector for their release. Raffle marks are not intended to be primarily obtained through RMAs. They're meant to be obtained from raffle lionesses. It's not about "but my value!" it's about new content never seeing a release because they're so backed up on markings and slots that they actually cannot release them.  6 players like this post! Like? |
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Blue [Full BO dawn] (#73123)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:03:03 |
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Dante ~ Project King [Main] (#80013) Impeccable View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:03:11 |
@Blue Just sharing my thoughts. I think cloning the lioness defies the point of making them rare. I'd rather see 2/3 different ones released a week 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Blue [Full BO dawn] (#73123)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:04:27 |
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Dante ~ Project King [Main] (#80013) Impeccable View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:05:13 |
And they are intended to be rare. That's why they're a "special" lioness. Otherwise, they'd be no different from a 10BO chased NCL. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Dante ~ Project King [Main] (#80013) Impeccable View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:05:54 |
@Blue Yes, it is :) But I'm afraid I can't support thus thread for its primary focus on cloning them. Was just sharing my feedback re. the studs and the duplicated RLs. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Blue (#73136)
Unholy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:08:07 |
Okay! I'm glad you agree with the idea I present but didn't support. The thread doesn't focus on CLONING them. It focuses on spreading out the markings that raffle lionesses are supposed to spread. :D 0 players like this post! Like? |
Lex 🦋 (CSS WIP) (#60712)
Asshole View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:09:17 |
There are at least 6 people on Lioden that I can think of who own 10+ raffle lionesses. When a small group of people control the markings and the clones, some of those marks do not get released to the public UNTIL someone else is lucky with an RMA. What’s the value there? Scarcity? Or being in a group of people who have thousands of gb to blow on one cat in order to make more money when people need the marks to finish their projects? The admins had to lock raffle winner’s messages and anonymize them in order to keep them safe from winning a cat on a pixel cat game because people are bloodthirsty over them. It’s not a fun or fair system as it stands. 7 players like this post! Like? |
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snowmew [G1 14BO Abyssinian] (#63212) View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:12:25 |
i don't understand how anyone could not want some sort of change to raffle lioness and markings. it is such an absolute pain, some raffle markings in certain slots i want for my breeding projects quite literally do not exist any more and there is no way to get them. for those that do exist, they are hoarded on other accounts that are frozen now from being inactive for so long. it shouldn't be like that, players should be able to obtain markings that they want, especially now that the player base is so big it is 100000x more possible a raffle lionesses markings will never make it into the market. then what? bo breeders need some sort of love here, it isn't fair 2 players like this post! Like?Edited on 15/03/23 @ 11:13:17 by snowmew [G1 3xRos SSR 10BO] (#63212) |
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Dante ~ Project King [Main] (#80013) Impeccable View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:25:36 |
@Blue I don't disagree with that - just how this thread is (mainly) proposing to tackle the issue. if it was just more RLs, I'd support. Only because of the other suggestions that I can't, because I'm strongly against those at present 0 players like this post! Like? |
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🐉Giena [he/they/hir]🧋 (#269975) Buzzkill View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:31:58 |
I hardly support the system with 2-3 rls in a week,but u can only enter for one 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Lex 🦋 (CSS WIP) (#60712)
Asshole View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:36:32 |
I’d also like to go back on a point being made: “Let the devs know what marks are being hoarded and they can put them on a new lioness.” I really really. Need to stress. There is an entire thread Katze has for marking suggestions for raffle lionesses. It has 24 pages. Let me give you a taste of what Katze has left to do, request wise: * Asali (2021-05-12) * Bandit with Dawn and Silver markings (2022-12-13) * Black Rose (2023-02-17) * Bushveld with Briar and/or Lilac markings (2022-04-02) * Cairngorm (2022-09-17) * Celsian (2023-02-08) * Citrine with Bushveld and Pistachio markings (2022-07-14) * Damu/Asali with Cimmerian and Ginger markings (2022-02-12) * Damu or Goridhe with Seal Dorsal Line, Seal Margay, and Seal Panther (2023-01-06) * Ebony (2022-11-29) * Elysian/Nadir with Cimmerian and Steele markings (2023-02-03) * Fiery with Dove or Mist eyes (2023-02-11) * Fulvous (2021-08-04) * Gold-based lioness with Crackle and Quagga (2022-12-14) * Hellebore with Bushveld Dorsal Line, Bushveld Freckles, and Lilac Margay (2022-09-17) * Madagascar with Banana/Celadon eyes (2021-04-07, 2022-02-24, 2022-11-29) * Nadir with Cimmerian Margay (2022-03-08) * Noctis with Dawn Margay, pink/purple markings (2022-10-26, 2022-11-29) * Pearl with Sectoral eyes, Almond and Saffron markings (2021-05-13) * Pulsar (2022-11-05) * Soul (2022-11-29) * Squall (2022-05-20, 2023-02-08) * Vagabond (2022-11-26) * Wine with Terracotta eyes, Cimmerian/Lilac/Quartz markings (2022-10-26, 2022-11-16) * Bandit Cloud, Slot 1, Slot 3, Slot 4, Slot 6, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2021-08-31) * Bandit Unders, Slot 1, Slot 6, and Slot 9 (2021-08-31) * Blue Indri, Slot 3 (2022-12-25) * Blue Margay, Slot 2, Slot 3, Slot 4, Slot 5, Slot 6, and Slot 10 (2021-08-22) * Bone Lace (2023-02-10) * Briar Crackle, Slot 1 (2022-12-15) * Briar Freckles 1, Slot 8 (2023-02-13) * Briar Panther, Slot 10 (2022-03-17) * Bushveld Dorsal Line, Slot 1, Slot 2, Slot 3, Slot 4, and Slot 7 (2021-08-14) * Bushveld Freckles 3, Slot 10 (2022-04-28) * Celestial Cover, Slot 10 (2022-08-05) * Chert Indri, Slot 4 (2021-07-01) * Cinnabar Crackle, Slot 6, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2021-02-25) * Cinnabar Margay, Slot 7, Slot 8, and Slot 9 (2021-03-24) * Coral Lace, Slot 1, Slot 2, Slot 5, Slot 6, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2020-11-25) * Coral Soft Unders, Slot 2, Slot 3, Slot 5, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2020-11-25) * Coral Underfelt, Slot 5, Slot 7, Slot 8, and Slot 10 (2020-11-25) * Cream Lace (2023-02-10) * Cream Rims (2023-02-10) * Cream Underfelt, Slot 8 (2021-06-21, 2023-02-10) * Dark Brown Margay, Slot 7 and Slot 8 (2020-04-07) * Dark Brown Pelage, Slot 8 (2022-02-23, 2023-02-10) * Dawn Shine, Slot 7 (2022-08-21) * Dim Brown, Slot 7 (2021-06-21) and Slot 9 (2020-08-07) * Dim Dark Brown (2023-02-10) * Dim Mahogany (2023-02-10) * Dim Onyx (2023-02-10) * Feline 2 Black, Slot 3 (2020-03-24) * Feline 2 Dark Brown, Slot 8 (2020-05-05, 2023-02-10) * Feline 3 Dark Brown, Slot 8 (2021-06-21, 2023-02-10) * Feline 5 Dark Brown (2023-02-10) * Feline 5 Ginger (2023-02-10) * Feline 8 Gold (2023-02-10) * Feline 8 Fiery, Slot 8 (2022-03-19) * Feline 5 Lilac, Slot 3 (2022-04-02) * Feline 8 Lilac, Slot 3 (2022-04-02) * Feline 9 Lilac, Slot 3 (2022-04-02) * Feline 5 Noctis, Slot 6 (2022-03-20) * Feline 6 Noctis, Slot 9 (2021-09-18) * Feline 9 Onyx, Slot 8 (2021-02-09) and Slot 10 (2021-01-31) * Feline 1 Silky, Slot 4, Slot 5, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2020-11-25) * Feline 2 Silky, Slot 1, Slot 3, Slot 5, Slot 6, Slot 8, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2020-11-25) * Feline 3 Silky, Slot 10 (2020-11-25) * Feline 4 Silky, Slot 9 (2020-11-25) * Feline 5 Silky, Slot 1, Slot 5, Slot 6, and Slot 9 (2020-11-25, 2023-02-10) * Feline 6 Silky, Slot 2, Slot 7, and Slot 10 (2020-11-25) * Feline 7 Silky, Slot 5, Slot 6, Slot 8, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2020-11-25) * Feline 8 Silky, Slot 1, Slot 2, Slot 3, Slot 5 (2020-04-07), Slot 7 and Slot 9 (2020-11-25) * Feline 9 Silky, Slot 2 (2020-11-25) and Slot 6 (2021-04-06) * Feline 1 Silver (2023-02-10) * Feline 2 Silver (2023-02-10) * Feline 6 Silver (2023-02-10) * Feline 7 Silver, Slot 3 (2021-09-28) * Fulvous Pelage, Slot 7 (2020-04-24) * Fulvous Rogue (2023-02-10) * Fulvous Shine (2023-02-10) * Gold Indri, Slot 4 (2022-01-24) * Goridhe Crackle, Slot 2 (2023-02-04) * Leg Banding Auburn, Slot 7 (2021-07-31) * Leonid Coat, Slot 9 (2022-02-07) * Lilac Indri, Slot 7 (2021-06-21) * Lilac Margay (2023-02-10) * Marigold Inverted Zebra, Slot 1, Slot 2, Slot 3, Slot 4, Slot 6, Slot 7, Slot 8, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2020-01-07) * Marigold Lace (2023-02-10) * Marigold Rims, Slot 7 (2021-06-21, 2023-02-10) * Marigold Soft Unders, Slot 10 (2020-04-07) * Marigold Underfelt, Slot 1 (2021-06-21), Slot 5, Slot 6, Slot 7, Slot 8, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2019-12-14) * Noctis Panther, Slot 6, and Slot 8 (2021-08-14) * Noctis Rogue, Slot 10 (2022-01-24) * Onyx Dorsal Line, Slot 1, Slot 3, Slot 4, and Slot 6 (2021-08-14) * Onyx Panther, Slot 10 (2021-04-13) * Quartz Rims, Slot 7, and Slot 9 (2022-02-28) * Royal Soft Unders, Slot 6 (2019-12-14) * Royal Underfelt, Slot 2, Slot 5, Slot 6, and Slot 8 (2020-07-24) * Saffron Crackle, Slot 1, Slot 4, Slot 5, Slot 7, and Slot 8 (2021-05-12) * Saffron Rogue, Slot 1, Slot 5, Slot 6, Slot 7, Slot 8, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2021-10-11) * Saffron Underfelt, Slot 4 (2020-07-24) * Seal Margay, Slot 8 (2022-12-27) * Shell Soft Unders, Slot 10 (2021-07-28) * Silky Lace, Slot 3 (2022-11-29) * Silky Underfelt, Slot 5 (2021-06-21) * Stratosphere Vitiligo, Slot 5 (2022-12-25) * Tan Crumbing, Slot 2, Slot 3, Slot 5, Slot 7, Slot 9, and Slot 10 (2020-12-24) * Tangor Panther, Slot 4 and Slot 7 (2020-04-07) * Tangor Rogue (2023-02-10) * Ukame Undercover, Slot 7 (2021-03-29) * Cream raffle lioness with NCL exclusive eyes (2021-12-14) * Hellebore with Bushveld Dorsal Line, Freckles, and Lilac Margay (2022-09-17) * Lilac and Silver Felines * Lower slot Feline 7s (2020-08-28) * Lower slot Feline 9s, preferably Slot 1 through Slot 5 (2020-07-07) * Noctis-based raffle lioness with pink/purple markings, Dawn Margay (2022-10-26) * Pearl-based raffle lioness with Almond and Saffron markings in new slots and Sectoral eyes (2021-05-13) * Raffle lioness with Fulvous and Noctis markings (2022-01-05) * Raffle lioness with Rose eyes and Vitiligo 4 (2021-03-24) * Wine-based raffle lioness with Terracotta eyes (2022-10-26) Wow. Quite a bit! And if you look, there are entries spanning all the way back to…. 2020! Three years ago! And still hasn’t been done! (I of course don’t blame Katze for that, the system is ridiculous and limits her severely.) How long do you think it’s going to take to get all of those marks, bases, and themes released if we have 52 lionesses being released a year, and new markings being requested every day? And if they get added to another raffle lioness, what prevents her from being hoarded because.. she has a rare marking! And that marking never being spread? Again? I’m curious how anyone who disagrees with the suggestion would tackle that issue. 7 players like this post! Like? |
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Thalath {Side} (#43831)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 11:44:20 |
Even if you were to take into account that some of those can be covered by other releases (Celestial raffle, August maneater studs, I think there was some exclusive NCL marks in there also), there are still so many raffle marks and slots that are just ded. I don't even think Feline Silky is even that new. :S I know Silky is probably one of the less popular ones, but yeah. Had a real hard time finding Ginger Felines for a while myself. edit: I was really disappointed to find out that players can no longer submit RL designs. Not only was that fun to do, but I feel like it helped reduce some of the potential load of having to think of a bunch of marks or designs for the person that puts up the RLs. 1 player likes this post! Like?Edited on 15/03/23 @ 12:27:33 by Thalath {Side} (#43831) |
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Dante ~ Project King [Main] (#80013) Impeccable View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 14:36:19 |
@Lex I agree! Some of those are combos that could be bred separately - e.g., Wine with Terracotta eyes, Cimmerian/Lilac/Quartz markings. Nonetheless, that's why I think that several unique RLs a week would be helpful to increase the number of marks that can be targeted. At the end of the day, most active players who win a RL can't afford to purposefully hoard them raffle lioness considering the value. Some will, but most will attempt to sell or breed her. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Blue (#73136)
Unholy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-03-15 14:58:51 |
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