Posted by Raffle Lioness Tweaks

Blue [Full BO dawn] (#73123)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-03-14 09:06:35

Background Info


Hello!

I want to preface this with the fact that I am an old fart. I've been playing this game since 2015-- Almost 7 years! In those 7 years, there have been quite a few new players that have joined the game. Every week, everyone can have a chance at the raffle lioness.

Before, this used to cap at around 2,000 people-- Maybe 3,000 if it was a particularly gorgeous one.

As of the Tuesday I'm writing this, our current girl has 9902 entries and counting. I expect this to top off around 10,000 by the Friday she's drawn, meaning that 2,000 of old is *long* past by a factor of 5! This system was designed with the smaller numbers in mind!

The Problem


The raffle lioness is a special lioness meant to introduce new markings into the game, or refresh the old pool. She's a very special thing to win, but there are a few issues with her as she stands:

* She's nearly impossible to win.
* There are too many marks in too many possible slots that need to be fulfilled, so much so that 10 marks released a week doesn't really cut it.

When there were 2,000 people who wanted her, that was bad. With 10,000 people who want her, it's worse!

In short, demand has gone WAY up, and supply has remained the same.
Thalath summed it up beautifully: Too many marks, too many players, not enough lion.
We need to factor into account that the population of the site has increased since 2013.

Please note that I am NOT accusing the winners of hoarding marks! I also want to point out that it's HARD to let marks spread from a single lion only.

Some examples:
* Bushveld Brindle in slot 7 was released in October of 2022. There are currently 5 lions total with it.
* Fiery Brindle in slot 7 was released in June of 2022. There is currently 1 lion total with it.
* Shell Lace in slot 8 was released in July of 2017. There are currently 19 lions total with it.
* Feline 7 Ginger in slot 6 was released in April of 2017. There are currently 23 lions with it.

*Information has been gathered using the marking slot rarity Wiki page, and the raffle lioness directory pages.

This list can go on forever with a litany of how many markings we have, along with how many possible slots that can be filled.
For just a small sample size, there are 9 feline markings that can occur in 10 colors, making for 90 unique raffle feline markings. There are 10 possible slots that these can be released into, meaning that we're looking at about 900 separate slots and marks that need to be filled. There's 52 weeks in a year. If a lioness were released with nothing but unique feline markings in unique slots, it would take almost 2 years to get all of those out into circulation, which simply isn't reasonable. That said, there are a hell of a lot more raffle markings than just those few feline marks!

Proposed Solutions


1. More than 1 Raffle Lioness per week.
Event unlock numbers have scaled to accommodate more players, so why can't raffle lions? This one could be achieved in two separate ways:

1. Multiple copies of the SAME lioness per week.
2. Many different raffle lionesses per week.


This would get lionesses out to more hands per week, which is a greater opportunity for a marks to spread. It does not solve the possibility of marking hoarding, but it generally gets more markings out to more people. This resolves the issue of the old system being created for the smaller site traffic in mind.

If multiple copies of the same lioness are given out per week, it may feel as if they are losing how 'special' they are to people, though one could counter this with the existence of raffle lioness clones via crunchy worms. Multiple copies of every raffle lioness are almost guaranteed anyway, this would just create multiple lines of them genetically. Markings could spread more rapidly than some of the given examples above.

If multiple lionesses are given out per week, it allows for more diversity of markings to be released to the masses and stops the bottleneck of how slow dying marks take currently to be revived.

This does come with the cons that raffle lionesses may be deemed to be a little less special to the community (but remember winners getting harassed for winning?), and the human aspect that someone has to design these girls to be sent out, which may get taxing.

2. Each week a raffle lionesses is released, but a replica stud releases along with her.
Thank you to Angela!
This one is my personal preference. Let's think of August for a moment! We use August studs to quickly spread a bunch of markings to everyone, and everyone gets a fair chance to breed for what they'd like. It's all around a good system!

This option would see a regular raffle lionesses released per week, just as she is now. She'd also have a brother alongside her who can stud out to the community to release her marks on a much larger scale. Anyone who still wins the raffle lioness gets to keep a very special lady-- After all, a full breed-only lioness with g1 heritage is nothing to sneeze at! -- but those who may like her for her marks gets a chance at spreading those marks!

To keep it fair, you wouldn't be able to use breeding items with the stud, but you can still use items on your lioness. It's still pretty difficult to breed an exact copy, but it could get you close to it, and then you can shop with other players to get what you're looking for! This is a system we see on Wolvden already.

You could limit it to one lion breed per account, or you could make it a GB/SB sink-- Which is always needed in pet game economy to keep inflation from getting too high.

Suggestion: 2.5
The raffle stud system could mimic Wolvden's exactly, where everyone can take a chance to breed to the raffle stud. I'm quite partial to keeping the raffle lioness, though!

Space for Discussion



I do want to clarify that I do NOT want to get rid of the raffle lioness-- I personally have always loved the little mechanic.

I'd love to hear what you think! Are you interested? Do you think another idea would be better? Let me know! :)



This suggestion has 547 supports and 28 NO supports.



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Edited on 30/06/23 @ 21:32:39 by Blue [Full dawn, now public!] (#73123)

Lex 🦋 (CSS WIP) (#60712)

Asshole
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Posted on
2023-03-15 15:03:33
"At the end of the day, most active players who win a RL can't afford to purposefully hoard them raffle lioness considering the value. Some will, but most will attempt to sell or breed her."

Attempt to sell her... to one of the people with 10+ RLs that i mentioned earlier. Who will end up hoarding her and her markings. Because it's one lioness with limited heats that can be manipulated and exploited for profit instead of markings being spread. I'm really confused how it seems like there's a disconnect here.



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Dante ~ Project King
[Main] (#80013)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2023-03-15 18:38:44
@Bluie yep, recognise that :)



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Heavy (G1 2.8k
Hellebore RLC) (#239811)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-03-16 05:34:43
My thoughts on this are that the stud idea alongside the RL system is a really, really good one. I think it should probably have a separate design to the RL - maybe it could even have a randomised set of BO marks/mane colour/base/etc. - to keep that market alive for those who enjoy it, but at it's core it gets new slotted marks into the hands of the public. Maybe everyone gets one stud to it a week and it costs a decent amount of sb to stud just to provide a more reliable sb sink (as you mentioned, vital for a petsim economy lol). Hell, there's no reason why they couldn't have like, 2 or 3 different randomised studs a week, and you only can pick one to stud to per week. More marks out there more often, incentivises trading between players, no need for Katze to suddenly have to pick up the pace on designing RLs. It works in August, idk why it wouldn't work for other BO stuff :D



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Edited on 17/03/23 @ 14:53:40 by Heavy [G3 5x Scound Corrupted] (#239811)

Thalath {Side} (#43831)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-03-17 06:57:57
To add on a little bit to having multiple RLs, I think something else that could be done is take the current RL that is running and essentially color-shift/asset-shift it.

So using the current raffle lioness as an example, she might become something like this instead. This is effectively the same lioness with its colors and vit number changed, as well as its mane type changed to Tsavo to be the sort of "opposite" breed-only to Savage.

This makes it so there's multiple RLs but it reduces the strain of having to design an entirely new lioness from scratch, and still puts more types of breed-only marks into the game. They should still look visually appealing as all it is is a palette swap.

edit: I made the mistake of looking into RLs, there's like 1 or 2 players that own like nearly all of the recent ones lol



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Edited on 17/03/23 @ 14:14:33 by Thalath {Side} (#43831)

🦎Rango (Main) G7
NRLC Murky (#334921)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2023-03-17 17:05:24
Correct my math if I'm wrong, but
If 10k people enter the raffle lioness every week, you have a .01% chance to win her in a year if you enter every week. If it was 2000, you have a .05% chance. This is a crazy difference!



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Akela [G1, Splash] (#119137)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2023-03-21 16:32:03
I agree with this especially making two of the same (might’ve read that wrong) because out of the raffle lionesses some aren’t even active, there is no trace of a lot of them because the player has left the game, or found no Interest making it impossible to get your hands on those markings in that marking spot.

Or even if they had a distribution system if they don’t come back after a certain amount of time the lioness is re rolled and given to someone else. A lot of RL’s sit on inactive accounts and unable to be obtained so I like this idea. Especially an idea of re rolling after a given period of time so that lioness doesn’t sit in an inactive account [this is my own opinion]



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king crow | g1 lilac
spotted (#64045)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2023-03-23 10:45:39
i agree. a lot of things that they have rejected in the past (multiple RLs + raffle studs/submale breeding) were rejected when there was a playerbase of like 2k on average daily. now it's bumped up to 6k or even 7k on average daily, particularly during popular events. lioden has to grow with its players!



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Edited on 23/03/23 @ 10:46:29 by king crow (507/1500rb) (#64045)

Blue [Full BO dawn] (#73123)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-03-23 10:47:03
Yeah, that's what gets me.

Sometimes things need to change because the size of the site changes, and that's okay. We've tweaked a lot of things due to the fact that there's been higher numbers of players, and I feel like this is one of those things that needs it. There's too much of a bottleneck between supply and demand.



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🍯 Paipa | G2
Orchid Pie (#73075)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2023-03-31 05:32:04
I absolutely support this! And Lex (hello, I don't know if you remember me from 2017 heh) does bring up some pretty big things out in to open. I have played since 2015 and nope, I have never won raffle lioness, ever. I have tried hundreds and hundreds of times.

I especially support the weekly raffle stud/s idea, it would make non-existing (hoarded or dead) marks and markings slots actually come to life after so long. This problem with RLs was pretty big already around 2017, now it is just impossible to tackle without these kinds of changes. So yes, I fully support this and hope this gets implemented!



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🐉 Coffeekita | BO
Lilac (#308641)


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Posted on
2023-04-23 16:00:28
Support! I feel like it is way too easy for RL markings and traits to go extinct. She could end up on an account that gets frozen/goes inactive (like the poor 01/18/19 girl) or end up with someone who wants to keep the line private. Now, i have no problem with people keeping the lion they won or bought private. They own the lion, they make the rules. BUT, it does make it very very hard for new markings and such to propagate as intended by the raffle in the first place! A "brother" stud would be an excellent idea i think!

Maybe the community could also vote on inactive/extinct RLs to be re-raffled? So some months have a new RL with a "brother" stud while other months have two RLs, one new and one re-raffled so to speak



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Edited on 23/04/23 @ 16:02:57 by Coffeekita (#308641)

[♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-04-24 13:31:19
I'd be open to 3 copies of the raffle girl being given to the three top winners. It's a similar - though not as impacting - situation with the SB raffle, and the weekly raffles.

The odds begin to feel like entering the actual lottery. I know that my 50 SB is going into the void. It's pointless to enter. And the stress of winning a lioness where users have been harassed off the site in the past is so silly.

That said, I'd like to see July open up to July Raffle Studs as well as raffle girls. There's several July marks that are extinct or nearly extinct, and as we are reminded, they're randomly generated, so we can't request those marks.

This is a problem which should be a QoL priority.




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Lionclysm 🔥🐲 (#206196)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2023-06-08 20:53:17
I do agree that definitely there needs to be more raffle lionesses and/or adding raffle studs! Not too sure about doing replicas, but maybe variations? Or something like that, since the lionesses are meant to be special. Support regardless, since there definitely is a higher demand with such a bigger player base now!



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Euzi {G2 14xBO DR
Khnum} (#260028)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2023-06-09 16:57:52
Absolutely not. They are pricey, extremely rare, and hard to win FOR A REASON. This would wreck one of the few markets in game that haven't been destroyed already by LD changes and updates. No support.



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atlas ☠︎ /
vagabond (#120331)

Maneater
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Posted on
2023-06-21 09:15:15
I do prefer the alternate design idea- making a seperate- but similar design for a raffle stud or several raffle lionesses. I think a good idea may be to just try out- do two raffles of two diff RLs at the same time. Another idea could be re-releasing old RLs, Just another idea, not sure if it would work EDIT: just realised someone said that already lol ^^

another edit:
I think a possibility is that the market will evolve and maybe a new ? market will form in which there will be Post and Pre RLs, Post change RLs would retain their current values of 200-800GB depending on the clone, and Pre RLs, to be i want to say 100-500GB with all heats intact. (This being 2 Different RLs released at a time, to match the growing population of Lioden) I think that's quite reasonable? At least for me, I would be willing to support.Though I do believe the main purpose of the RLs should NOT be their "value" and rather the spread of the BO markings, makes me feel very sad such beautiful marks can never be passed down- or even attempted to be. RMA projects are also- sooooo EXPENSIVE! Especially with my bad luck haha



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Edited on 21/06/23 @ 09:22:29 by tempest [G2 Svelte] (#120331)

[♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-06-25 11:57:19
What Blue said. Presuming there's a "market" that any normal players can get in on feels off. Players are at the mercy of these marks being spread by those with the money to purchase the RLs outright to seed them into Lioden and instead, they are gatekept, and players are charged exorbitant amounts for a single stud / heat.

There's preserving steady value, and then there's enabling a system that allows the top percentage of RL breeders/owners to bleed other players dry for a tiny chance they might get lucky.

Find a niche people depend on, make it cost exorbitant amounts of money, and convince the public it has to be that way. It keeps the top players unchallenged, allows *them* to control the value entirely, and permits almost nobody to budge them.

That's not a market. That's late stage lion game capitalism LMFAO



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Edited on 01/07/23 @ 04:39:35 by [♰] Yharnam (#112370)







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