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| Posted by | -LOCKED - Community Input on Challenge/Paperclip Trades |
 Katze (#3)  
Heavenly View Forum Posts  Posted on 2022-08-12 09:33:32 |
Hi, everyone! As mentioned within August 12th's Community Update news, we are aware that part of the community dislikes challenge/paperclip trades appearing in the Trading Center. One particular topic has had a fair bit of discussion from both sides: * ⚔️TwoSwordsClash⚔️ (#122111), "Outlaw "joke" trades of 1 SB" Our stance has generally been that the Trading Center is a player-run "free market". Part of the reason for this is that you, the players, determine the value that items and other assets hold over time. Players are free to try to sell or trade their assets at whatever value they choose, and other players are free to decide whether or not they accept that value. When it comes to moderating challenge/paperclip trades, the main question is: where do we draw the line? At what value does a trade become more than just a paperclip trade? If an arbitrary value is set, then trades will simply be created at a value just above that. If it becomes a matter of simply disallowing any trades entitled "What can I get for _____?", then we essentially remove open-ended offer-based trades. We understand that a big concern is how they flood the Trading Center and push legitimate trades out of view, though we have never moderated the amount of trades any one player can post at one time, or how many of a certain type of trade can exist at the same time. As you can see, moderating these trades isn't a cut-and-dried solution, much as we wish it were. Potential Solutions * We could add the ability to conveniently and instantly hide trades under the "Recent Trades" and "Search Results" listings for trades, without needing to click to view the actual trade, and without needing to block the trade's creator. An additional "Hidden Trades" section could be added to the Trading Center interface in case a trade is hidden by mistake. * There could be an additional option to "Hide All Trades By This Player", as well. This could act as a "soft block" which only prevents you from seeing certain trades, and still allows you to interact with the trade creator. * We could implement a new Stockpile subforum category for "Challenge Trades", where players would be encouraged to advertise their challenges. Players could then set up private trades if they end up receiving a buyer for their trade, rather than publicly listing their trades in the Trading Center beforehand. The downside of this option is then moderating what does and does not belong within that subforum, needing to cancel/remove any publicly-listed challenge trades, and determining what falls under a challenge trade to begin with. We would ideally like to hear whether or not this is something you think might provide added value for you when using the Trading Center. Additionally, if you have thoughts on other possible (manageable) solutions or suggestions on how this type of system could be improved, we're open to hearing these as well. Keep in mind that any solutions tied to moderation would require hard-set definitions that not all players may see eye to eye on. To further clarify: We want your input on how exactly we rule this type of trade - where is the line? Why isn't my 1 SB trade open for any offers allowed? It's a legitimate trade, I am offering something in exchange for an offer. Why would it be considered begging or a challenge/paperclip trade? What if it was 5 SB instead of 1? 10 instead of 5? Who determines whether I'm asking to trade up by offering 1 SB for a Large Leaf? In order to moderate things like this efficiently, we need a concrete determined set of rules about what constitutes a challenge trade. That's what we need your help with. If we implement the second Trading Center idea that some people are suggesting, how do we determine that a trade in the "regular" Trading Center isn't just a misplaced challenge trade? This is the conundrum we're having. This topic will remain open for two weeks, and will be locked on Friday, August 26th, 2022. Once it is locked, our admin team will review it for potential ideas and solutions. We will post an update on the situation as soon as we are able to work one out, if one can be worked out at all—and if we decide not to pursue these trades, we will announce this as well. |
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Rufus (#208144)
Usual View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:11:14 |
I like the blocking idea, but there is a huge issue surrounding that in particular; what if they're selling something you want? but you have them hidden, so you're at a disadvantage. Also, it would be time consuming blocking every single player that does it. Outlawing it altogether is just wrong, which is why I heavily disagreed with that forum by TwoSwords [you can see my comment under the ID #177615]. In my opinion, there is no such thing as a line, both parties are willing and in agreement when they go to offer on a trade, or accept a trade; it is between the players to solve any issues regarding that trade [unless moderation is needed ofc]. 1sb to yadayada trades are actually incredibly harmless, but imo they could be seen as a forum game more than anything! [this prevents making a new sub-category for it], as it's just a game to see what they can get. This would mean that maybe the forum games get flooded, but in the long-run, we can't prevent that from happening. Banning 1sb trades means removing the ability to offer altogether [people will then just find ways around this obviously], and it just isn't right to do that because the function itself does no harm. there has been significantly less the past few weeks, and it isn't that much of an issue. But i believe it should be kept to the forums if that's the best solution, and possibly just in 'lions, items, etc.', or 'forum games' so you can avoid making another sub-category. Admin Response: If someone were to break the rules and post in the trading center instead of on the forums, how do we determine it's actually one of these types of trades?  0 players like this post! Like? |
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Fading Angel (G2 2k) [Frozen] (#81854) Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:13:05 |
I don't view the "what can I get for this much" trades as begging users like myself collect EVERYTHING so it's an option if someone just wants to toss junk for some sb lol. The paperclip challenge, wanting more then value. That definitely more of a gray zone. But with how strict you guys have been in the past about begging.  I would think this specifically falls in that line. If people want to work towards a hybrid or whatnot... then they can sale off items, lions, event currency. I think eventually the trend will die out on its own. Not enough people are going to give them apps/breeding items for cheap A sub category seems to be the best option. But... personally I would see if it dies or make a sub category and then remove the sub category once it diesOh I like the forum game idea Admin Response: Begging tends to be asking for things for free - it's very similar, I will agree there, but unfortunately where do we draw the line? Is asking for things for 10SB too little still? 20SB? 30? etc Admin Response: Responded this to the wrong person, apologies :'D 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 12/08/22 @ 10:13:42 by Fading Angel (G1 5k Pearl) (#81854) |
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Anne (BO Sidereal) 🇵🇸 (#61013) Deathlord of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:13:11 |
It's just veiled begging and it shouldn't even be allowed at all. It's super annoying while scrolling through TC and that's all you see. This one time I was looking for a decor and it was in one of these trades. It was really annoying cuz I'd rather just buy it for pure currency then indulge in this nonsense. Then there's the forum idea. It's a nice idea but heck it'll clog the recent forums then with all the bumps n everything. And if you do happen to implement the subforum idea...I hope we have an option to block that entire subforum from showing up PLEASE. All in all, I support completely banning these. Idk how y'all will do it but I hope we don't have to hear of them again. Admin Response: Begging tends to be asking for things for free - it's very similar, I will agree there, but unfortunately where do we draw the line? Is asking for things for 10SB too little still? 20SB? 30? etc 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Dante ~ Project King [Main] (#80013) Impeccable View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:13:36 |
How about just banning trades that specifically ask for something more valuable? If someone offers something more valuable, great, people can carry on doing this without spamming the trading center. General "looking for offers" trades are legitimate to my mind, it's only when people label it as a challenge that it bugs me or do very, very small sb trades that are clearly looking to just scam someone out of their stuff that I find pointless. Admin Response: Moderators are then left to determine when someone is asking for something of more value, which isn't always possible and would potentially be a time drain if the mod handling it isn't up to date on market values. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Rubypaw (#294904)
Harbinger View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:13:45 |
I would be on board for an option to flag specific trades to be hidden. I also like the suggestion someone made to add an option to exclude trades by search terms. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Pepper (#54112)
Spicy View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:13:52 |
I think implementing a form of all three solutions would be good. The subforum would keep the challenges separate and from drowning out the regular forums. The soft block of "hide all trades from this user" would work well, as well as maybe a button that simply says "hide trade" on the actual trade itself. That way we have an option of hiding every trade from that person, or just a single trade. Admin Response: How do we moderate the forums? If someone posts a challenge trade but doesn't label it as such, where is the line that we determine it's a challenge trade? 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 12/08/22 @ 10:16:50 by Pepper (#54112) |
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Clawdina | G2 x3 Ros/MS DF (#145104)
Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:15:02 |
I think the line is 1sb specifically or making trades in which people are just like "anything equal or more valuable" or where they are specifically stating "this TO that". When people make trades of "what can i get" with different amounts of currency, items, or lions most people will indicate something they want (breeding items, apps, currency, etc) along with things they specifically do *not* want. 1sb for me specifically because 1sb just so closely borders the line between being worth absolutely nothing and being worth something, it's just veiled begging since people who aren't just giving away thing for free rarely ever list things for 1sb (in my experience with the tc personally). For the other two, I get goals exist and people in the "what i want" will put "my dream is a tigon" or something of that type in that in trades where, based on the market it's just not fair all the time, but it's not in the trade title blatantly saying "here's something the market doesn't consider worth a tigon but i'll get there with just this thing so give me something worth more" veiled behind the paperclip challenge. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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poekiajam *G1 FULL Dawn 5xROS* (#103167) Deathlord of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:15:25 |
not sure how to reply on a reply xD but i dont know haha, i would say the same way as offering free studding is not allowed, the same as begging for trade up in the same way. maby making a sub forum in the trades only for these kinds of trade up's challanges , so they dont appear in the normal trade centre. but even then its still a way of begging . and as for drawing a line. well we have to draw it somewhere, thats why i had 100sb in mind, since everyone can save up 100sb fast, and for newer players thats a way of getting some food, toys or cheap items, but drawing the line at 100SB is because for that amount there are plenty items with the same value or below, but not for 1 sb. and asking for trade up / and the from 1sb to 100gb like trades do not belong in the trades imo because of clearly the begging 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Dante ~ Project King [Main] (#80013) Impeccable View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:15:37 |
@Abbey I'd say you could trade absolutely any item, be it a jacana leg whatever, freely. The restriction would only be on SB and should be kept low, but equally perhaps all trades should have a vague description of what the trader actually wants. e.g. 10sb for food / 10sb for jacana legs / etc. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Adam (#169289)
Renowned View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:17:12 |
I think I like the option to hide trades would be nice. Perhaps players could enter “keywords” into a box sort of like marking censor and any trades with those keywords will be hidden from that person’s view? 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Michael (#16)
Famous View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:18:01 |
I've seen a couple of people mention filtering out words. Technically, this is already possible. However there are two things to note about that: 1) If a trade isn't using any of those words, you're still going to get results that you don't want to see. 2) It requires that you have a starting search term. Much like trying to use Google, you can't just say, "Show me all pages that do not include the phrase ______". You can't ask the TC search to "show me all trades that don't contain _____". As an example, you can filter to find trades that contain "What can I get for", but without additional context, you can't eliminate any results. So you would need to use something like this for the search term: a -"what can I get for" -"challenge"In this example, "a" is the positive search term. This tells the search to find all trades that have "a" in the name or description, and then ignore any that contain "what can I get for" and "challenge". 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Rufus (#208144)
Usual View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:18:01 |
The value of items differ a lot between the community, there is no set worth of any item in-game. a popular worth for let's say an interstellar base app is around 70gb, but when there's none it can shoot up to 200gb. Nesting mats cost 60sb each, but it doesn't mean that's it's set worth, it's just an option of payment. It would be impossible to ban anything suggesting a warrant of something more valuable due to that very issue. Forums would be the best idea going ahead, whether it be on a sub-category or already existent category 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Dante ~ Project King [Main] (#80013) Impeccable View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:19:25 |
@Rufus To my mind that's a good thing - players can still trade up when the price is low or they get a good deal but it's working to find a bargain, not actively begging for someone to give them something better. Although that being said, many common items do have a set worth based on MB prices. but these are usually way less 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 12/08/22 @ 10:20:02 by Dante ~ G1 Snowflake [Main] (#80013) |
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Timber [G2 Aufeis Cracked Pie] (#245808) Lone Wanderer View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:19:29 |
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Lily|5xRos G2 Ferus Inter (#200330) King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 10:22:03 |
On another note, I really like what Rufus II (#208144) said about “1sb, 5sb etc” trades being basically form games. I think their idea of maybe moving those kinds of trades into form games would be a lot easier for the staff, and it would also satisfy most players. Annoyed user won’t have to see them anymore, challenge players can still do the challenges. Any trade that’s putting a low amount (e.g anything under 20sb) out there to “see what they can get” is a trade looking to get more value than what the 20sb is worth. I think they fit more as a game/challenge than a serious trade. The only downside it’s the form games might be flooded in the first few weeks  0 players like this post! Like? |
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