Posted by -LOCKED - Community Input on Challenge/Paperclip Trades

Katze (#3)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:33:32
Hi, everyone!

As mentioned within August 12th's Community Update news, we are aware that part of the community dislikes challenge/paperclip trades appearing in the Trading Center. One particular topic has had a fair bit of discussion from both sides:
* ⚔️TwoSwordsClash⚔️ (#122111), "Outlaw "joke" trades of 1 SB"

Our stance has generally been that the Trading Center is a player-run "free market". Part of the reason for this is that you, the players, determine the value that items and other assets hold over time. Players are free to try to sell or trade their assets at whatever value they choose, and other players are free to decide whether or not they accept that value.

When it comes to moderating challenge/paperclip trades, the main question is: where do we draw the line? At what value does a trade become more than just a paperclip trade? If an arbitrary value is set, then trades will simply be created at a value just above that. If it becomes a matter of simply disallowing any trades entitled "What can I get for _____?", then we essentially remove open-ended offer-based trades.

We understand that a big concern is how they flood the Trading Center and push legitimate trades out of view, though we have never moderated the amount of trades any one player can post at one time, or how many of a certain type of trade can exist at the same time.

As you can see, moderating these trades isn't a cut-and-dried solution, much as we wish it were.

Potential Solutions
* We could add the ability to conveniently and instantly hide trades under the "Recent Trades" and "Search Results" listings for trades, without needing to click to view the actual trade, and without needing to block the trade's creator. An additional "Hidden Trades" section could be added to the Trading Center interface in case a trade is hidden by mistake.
* There could be an additional option to "Hide All Trades By This Player", as well. This could act as a "soft block" which only prevents you from seeing certain trades, and still allows you to interact with the trade creator.
* We could implement a new Stockpile subforum category for "Challenge Trades", where players would be encouraged to advertise their challenges. Players could then set up private trades if they end up receiving a buyer for their trade, rather than publicly listing their trades in the Trading Center beforehand. The downside of this option is then moderating what does and does not belong within that subforum, needing to cancel/remove any publicly-listed challenge trades, and determining what falls under a challenge trade to begin with.

We would ideally like to hear whether or not this is something you think might provide added value for you when using the Trading Center. Additionally, if you have thoughts on other possible (manageable) solutions or suggestions on how this type of system could be improved, we're open to hearing these as well. Keep in mind that any solutions tied to moderation would require hard-set definitions that not all players may see eye to eye on.

To further clarify: We want your input on how exactly we rule this type of trade - where is the line? Why isn't my 1 SB trade open for any offers allowed? It's a legitimate trade, I am offering something in exchange for an offer. Why would it be considered begging or a challenge/paperclip trade? What if it was 5 SB instead of 1? 10 instead of 5? Who determines whether I'm asking to trade up by offering 1 SB for a Large Leaf?

In order to moderate things like this efficiently, we need a concrete determined set of rules about what constitutes a challenge trade. That's what we need your help with.

If we implement the second Trading Center idea that some people are suggesting, how do we determine that a trade in the "regular" Trading Center isn't just a misplaced challenge trade? This is the conundrum we're having.

This topic will remain open for two weeks, and will be locked on Friday, August 26th, 2022. Once it is locked, our admin team will review it for potential ideas and solutions. We will post an update on the situation as soon as we are able to work one out, if one can be worked out at all—and if we decide not to pursue these trades, we will announce this as well.



This suggestion has 519 supports and 40 NO supports.



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Edited on 12/08/22 @ 10:03:48 by Katze (#3)

Tiroloca (#118967)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-08-17 15:20:58
(#243378) I think that is a good idea 😉



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Flower_of_the_Sun (#36232)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-08-17 18:18:14
"The only people okay with it are newer players."

I joined in 2014 and I'm okay with it. Admittedly, there was a long period where I wasn't active, but i don't think I qualify as new.

(Not trying to argue or fight, just refuting the idea only new players are okay with it.)



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Edited on 17/08/22 @ 18:18:59 by Flower_of_the_Sun (#36232)

Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2022-08-17 18:45:44
I'm not necessarily new either. I joined November, and even tho I'm not an old player, I never found it irritating. Idk if it's just cause everytime I go to the trade center I use the filters, so it filters out a lot of it, but idk.

I mean, as it looks, the majority of lioden doesn't want to vote on this since only 400ish people voted at all. The majority who did vote said it was an issue, so i guess something should be done.

I still suggest either a different place such as forum or trade center area, as in the Main thread states, but I more suggest the idea of a new checkbox for filtering (idea can be found on previous page)



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🦚 Sakasu 🦚 G1
Ukame (#256269)

Frivolous
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Posted on
2022-08-17 18:50:59
I haven't voted because i don't understand what the "i support" is when there are 3 different possible solutions or so.

I'm not invested either way i guess, though I think banning them from the site is too much.



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Fading Angel (G2 2k)
[Frozen] (#81854)

Holy
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Posted on
2022-08-17 18:53:35
The site is strict on it rules as it is.
Move it to a forum game. And leave it more or less at that.
Not enough people are going to participate in it. 🤷‍♀️

It was a lot a while ago. But if users don't ingable it. The people trying to get higher value for junk won't get anywhere anyhow


To me the higher value is same concept as people over charging like 5gb for a giant tort.
Or 1gb for a broken drones.
But there's nothing we can do about that because value is player made.



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Edited on 17/08/22 @ 18:57:08 by Fading Angel (G1 5k Pearl) (#81854)

Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2022-08-17 18:56:24
The rules for a forum game would have to change then I think. Cause since it's about trading, I don't think it will fit????? I think someone has posted it in forum games before and it got taken down? Even tho not everyone is interested in this form of challenge/game, there is a good amount of players who are, so I dont think it's fair to just nit allow it or ban it.



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Zambz (#2687)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2022-08-17 18:58:24
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we're suppose to vote? When I read it I thought it was for players to put their input forward for the admins and such to read and all that, not to vote support or not in the first place?



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Tiroloca (#118967)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-08-17 19:01:45
I agree to everyone who is against this is a problem, they are making a big deal about it….I always use the trade center filtering what I want or what I’m looking for and I get exactly what I’m trying to get….never been a problem for me this kind of trade of what can I get with 1sb and when I see it post it I only ignored or support it depends on my mood….this place been the place I come after work or after a finish to deal with a hard day because relax me but if we start to try to control even what or how we should trade will have a negative impact in the game….just let the player play and trade whatever they want how been so far and if you don’t like it just move forward and ignore or if you like it support it that it….everyone who is making a big deal out of this should be les Karen and let people play and enjoy the game and trade in the way how they plz….is not begging because they are giving you something in return….is up to you if you want to trade to them or not….I think is even fun to see how far it goes in my opinion 😊



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Edited on 17/08/22 @ 19:05:01 by Tiroloca (#118967)

Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2022-08-17 19:02:26
I guess yeah, but I kinda took it as like "I support" means that you want something to change and "I dont support" as you don't want anything to change?



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Tiroloca (#118967)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-08-17 19:08:25
Ok…then I don’t support….I don’t want anything to change….I’m happy how it is so far 😊



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Zambz (#2687)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2022-08-17 19:15:15
CorruptedHyena (#243378) - I can see that! I don't think then that it's fair (not sure on wording) to say that people don't want change just because they didn't support. I personally didn't support or no support because I took it as you don't NEED to support/not support as they just wanted input / opinions for example yet I posted that I'd like to see things like asking for donations or only stating you want more than what you're offering as part of the 'challenge' to have some rules around them. Idk but using the amount of supports don't seem right in general since even topics that don't involve this don't rely on just supports to get added or not.
Idk if tht sounds rude or not plz note that it's not intended to sound mean or anything! qwq




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Edited on 17/08/22 @ 19:16:51 by Zambz (#2687)

Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2022-08-17 19:24:34
I never kinda thought that. I just figured that if they didn't support they didn't care. (I don't think u were being rude)

I am still kinda believing that most people don't care, just cause the amount of people in lioden. Pretty much everyone has seen the news and i feel that if they did care they would at least post, but from what I have seen, it is the same people pitching in the comments as well. I dint see a vast amount of different people pitching in much. Of course, they could've just skipped reading the news and just cleared the notification, but that is what I am thinking



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DANIEL- G2 Mottled (#128)

Pervert
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Posted on
2022-08-17 19:35:36
You’ll find even in major issues only a small portion of members will comment.



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Flower_of_the_Sun (#36232)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-08-17 21:13:10
I don't think the Support/No Support is a good metric for judging in this case because I could see some people hitting "I support" because they're glad we're talking about it, rather than it just being straight out banned.

Or even hitting no support because they want it outright banned and none of the solutions put forth imply that.



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Catalina (The Rat
Queen) (#179820)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2022-08-17 22:05:49
Idea, may be a bit hard to accompany with all of the code n stuff butttttt, what if you were to, instead of the subforum, add a new section to trade center/branches specifically for paperclip trades? I feel like it would be an easy way (for the players) to not get annoyed about the trades, as well as allowing those who participate in these to have the freedom to continue having fun with it!!

Just a suggestion! ^^;



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