Posted by [JUNE] Adjust Shop Prices [+411/-14]

jester [im autistic]
☘️ | 🇵🇸 (#187561)


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Posted on
2023-06-03 16:27:54
To put it frankly, the prices associated with the June event are absolutely ludicrous. A single base applicator costs 400KB, but there's 5 in the shops. Let's say you're incredibly productive and you manage 100KB a day (an unrealistic goal for most players), you'll only manage 3,000KB in the month. If you spend that all on bases, that's 7 bases. And that's assuming you buy no decor, and you always manage exactly 100 every single day.

To actually show you how impossible this is, I'm going to do some math real quick. Scary, I know. Let's say that someone doesn't sleep, at all, the entire month of June. They are on nothing but Lioden the entire time, but don't use Roasted Lambs, and they use 11 Energy Bars a day (the 9 full ones you get per day + the daily bonus + hyperactive + enclave boost). We're also going to assume someone gets a Snake Encounter for every step they take in explore, and they win every single one, and they use every single KB they get on bases.
They earn 220KB a day, 6160 for the month. That's a total of 15 base apps, for no sleeping, just continuously playing Lioden, under ideal conditions in explore. "But Jester, what about the quests?" Daily quests boosts them up from 15 base apps to 16, as you only get 10KB per day from them, and you can only do 28 of them for the month. This means that, as of 2024, when the new base apps are added to the June shop, you cannot get 1 of each base by swapping between Gods. You will not be able to by earning 220KB a day.

Now, to do the math with sleeping, we're going to take 8 hours away from that, for a total of 16 hours a day. Adding in what we did earlier, that's about 7.5 energy bars a day. Under the same ideal conditions, and doing nothing but Lioden when you're awake, that's 4,350KB, or 10 apps. Even adding in the extra 280KB you get from daily quests, that’s 11 base apps for the entire month. Doing nothing but Lioden and sleeping, and only spending your KB on base applicators. With this, you can't even get one of each base app that's currently in the shop.

These numbers are also only for one account, but also in ideal conditions where you get an encounter every step, win every battle, and spend no other energy on breeding/stud requests. For less than ideal conditions, these numbers would drop dramatically. AKA, these numbers are physically impossible. I've found some of the highest earners in June to only be averaging about 100KB a day, if that. That's only 2800KB a day, or just 7 base applicators for the entire month. For context, I bought seven Spicy Ice apps from December, and that's not even all I got.

That means for each base app in the shop, if you do nothing but sleeping and playing Lioden, no taking breaks, no stopping to eat, no anything, you can only get 2 the entire month. To take a month with comparable base applicator values, like February with the Cherry Blossom base, you can get more than DOUBLE that amount and still have enough event currency left over to do some decor shopping.

It's just ridiculous that bases cost this much with the amount of them that are now tied to the month, and are required for breeding rare and pretty popular combos as well.

Another potential option is to drastically increase the amount of KB provided by each snake, up to around 10KB a battle, like the October Night Creatures provide. That would make grinding June actually worth it, and not just a slog sandwiched between two battle heavy months that leads to extreme burnout. Though, to be honest, I think both should be implemented together, especially now that they have two shops that use KB, and plan to increase both shops loads every year.

POST JUNE DEV UPDATE:
No real changes in the amount of KB that I've noticed. All the new encounters seem to be quest locked and with no information about them on the wiki, I can't really see if their numbers are any different. From what I've noticed with the quests I've gotten, it doesn't appear to be so. In fact, both the find a cultist encounter and the find a boat encounter don't even reward KB, just a +50EXP and a quest completion.



This suggestion has 614 supports and 19 NO supports.



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Edited on 24/06/23 @ 06:57:57 by jester 🏳️‍🌈 (#187561)

Tharkenta (#160101)


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Posted on
2023-06-13 12:32:18
Making 14KB a day isn't hard. Finish one of the quests & beat up 2 snakes. If you choose Anubis, it's obviously harder, but you can change alignments. If you don't have the time to play and earn KB it's not the games fault.



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Romana (#14743)

Witcher
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Posted on
2023-06-13 12:38:20
I have the time. I have the GB. I have very strong kings.

And, despite not letting my energy fill up, i have not found enough cultists to finish that quest on either account. I’ve been trying for nearly 8 hours.

So for players they don’t have the time or the king or the resources to force grind their way through one of the “easier” quests… I don’t blame them for feeling frustrated. I learned the hard way to stick to the find and fight quests, because I’ve burned up enough energy bars looking for stupid flags and statues without finding anything.



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₭łⱤr₳Ⱨ (#193538)

Resurgent
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Posted on
2023-06-13 12:39:12
sometimes i get barely a snake encounter or 2 per energy bar. that doesnt help either with getting much kb, regardless if those battles succeed or not.

the june shop prices would be more justified if battles were as abundant as they are in july.



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storielle 💛 [g2
1.6k ice pie] (#15438)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2023-06-13 12:43:18
i wanted to add another counterpoint to what Tharkenta [13x Ros|G1] (#160101) said...

it's reasonable (especially with a lot of them being combo factors) to want a several of each of some of the factor bases because otherwise combo breeding is *painful.* i'm a big fan of BO things in this game, normally focusing on elysian and cimmerian BO marks, but i've considered getting into combo breeding with some of the bases from this event, too; however it's simply not worth it with the current prices of the bases. i've been trying to breed elysian since december and still have yet to get it, and i've gone through a LOT of divine and ice base apps to try make it easier to get an elysian cub. i can occasionally get ice and divine to pass, but still haven't gotten an elysian cub.

now im imagining getting only 2-3 apps at the end of this month and ending up extremely disappointed because that would even further lessen my chance of breeding the combos, because i'd have less lions with the factor bases to work with. the only draw for me in this event is trying to get those factor bases and breed the combos.

and as others have said, even for those not interested in combo breeding, comparable to other events this one gives a lot less reward for a lot more grinding. i'd love to try and get some of the gorgeous decor from the shops for this event, but i'm going to be very lucky if i can get 3 to 4 base apps and a few cheaper things from what kb i'll have leftover at the end of the month.

grinding kb is extremely difficult for me on some days as well because i do work too. some days i struggle to even halfway complete the quests because i cant get the needed enemies to pop up in the energy bars i use. and that's with a job that lets me check lioden on my phone a couple of times a day for a few minutes. for those who can't check at all during work hours, it's got to be much harder.



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kreech (#430477)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2023-06-13 12:43:45
Again, if you read the comments, you'll hear that those quests aren't easy to complete. The lowest # of enemies in a quest is 10, not 2, and it's for the snake minions, which hit hard for their level and can show up as little as twice an energy bar, meaning that even if you play well below your level, you're likely to lose the few snakes you get. The non-snake quests ask for even more battles won, and while they're active, the needed encounters are either rare or can't be completed w/o affecting your karma level, so regardless you have to grind all day to complete the quests. Not everyone can do this, especially since the game selects for the age demographic most likely to have jobs, children, etc. that prevents people from saving enough for even a single base app.
Also, the way you say it's not the game's fault that it's grindy as if it's an independent entity and not designed by real people who still have a responsibility to make it playable for their base, especially because once again, those same people knowingly select for the age demographic least likely to have the time to grind.



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Tharkenta (#160101)


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Posted on
2023-06-13 12:50:03
I don't have any problems fighting the snakes with a low stat king
And maybe some bases are supposed to stay rare?
There also quests that ask you to defeat 10 lions.



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Thalia Jr (#364412)

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Posted on
2023-06-13 12:55:20
Tharkenta I think you’re missing the majority of our points here 😅

If each year the reward app gets added to the shops, then when there were 1 or 2 in the shop at 400KB, that was fine and actually doable. But now there’s 5 apps in EACH shop??? It’s just not possible. No other event is this difficult to acquire the shop apps

And ofc it’s easy to get 14 KB in one day…at the end of the month tho what is 14KB per day gonna get you from the shops? Definitely not much. Shoot the dang chaos scales are easier to get and I can probably buy one of everything in that shop by the end of the month if I tried hard enough, because that shop is not nearly as overpriced.

Ofc it’s not the games fault for people who can’t 24/7 grind, no one’s saying that. I’m a college student and have a full time job so I don’t get to grind all day. I do my energy boosts, roasted lambs, etc But even then, it’s the middle of the month and I barely have enough KB for 2 bases?? It’s kinda ridiculous. Take a month like Feb or even December that is also extremely popular and a ‘grind heavy’ month, I was playing about the same as I am now and managed to get every base+more from those shops - because there were multiple ways to get the currency and the shop items were not priced thru the roof.

And I don’t believe that it’s this way bc ‘the combo bases are rare’ or smth like that…bc like some people said above there are multiple months with combo base apps in the shops, and those are not even remotely as difficult to get.

I believe that if they keep adding each years reward base to the June shop, then yes the prices need to be scaled down as well.



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Edited on 13/06/23 @ 13:05:39 by Thalia Jr (#364412)

Romana (#14743)

Witcher
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Posted on
2023-06-13 13:03:05
And I don’t think it’s a secret that objects of quests become a LOT harder to find. Like NCLs tend to become rarer and harder to impress when the old lioness quest is active. And how enemies you trip over all the time suddenly become endangered when Murphy asks you to kill then.

Same thing with the 10 lions/lioness quest for KB. After wasting energy for 7 hours trying just to find and kill 10… I shouldn’t need to use catnip and meatpies to brute force my way through at the end of the night.



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Edited on 13/06/23 @ 13:04:12 by Romana (#14743)

Tharkenta (#160101)


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Posted on
2023-06-13 13:03:06
You don't have to buy all of them. And what about the next years? When we have 8 or more apps in every shop? Should we reduce the price to 50KB? Lets break the game even more than it already is!

I would be fine with adding maybe 1 or 2 explore encounters that doesn't require fighting. But just reducing the shop prices is kinda dumb.



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kreech (#430477)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2023-06-13 13:14:07
The bases staying rare make less sense the longer it goes on, as more and more bases are added that still cost 400kb even though there's like 15 of them total. Like what if we get to the point where a third or more of the whole shop is just very expensive base apps and therefore inaccessible for many players? That's not good game design anymore. There's no point in keeping them super rare anymore as it is now.
The bases becoming less valuable over time is the logical result of adding new bases every year, but keeping them high and rare isn't a good counterbalance; it just discourages players from playing the event. Because why bother with the apps (or most items worth over 20 kb) when getting even to that amount of kb is a time-intensive slog that has long stopped being worth it?



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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Holy
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Posted on
2023-06-13 13:19:54
I think expecting players to wait an entire year to get to enjoy old bases is a little silly.
You're also expecting players to be okay with enjoying a fraction of the shop, when all other months allow users to more easily spread their currency across the board and enjoy a little of everything.

I love a challenge.
I wouldn't be grinding a G1 to level 45 by the end of his rule if I didn't.

But there's a difference between a steep challenge one undertakes because they enjoy challenges, and a steep challenge that a recurring event forces players to take part in, to get to enjoy the month at all.

No other event is this brutal. Not one.

Low currency drops, high prices, spread across three different shops - soon SIX different shops once they expand the secondary gods.

This event is unsustainable in its current state. Once those secondary shops get bulked out, this event will be abysmal.

The three shop dynamic means that its size has bloated it rapidly to the size of other events in a fraction of the time others took to reach this size. This event overhaul is relatively new, and its shop size is comparable to old events. That is ABSURD.

Nobody wants every single app.
Nobody wants them so cheap you can just have dozens.

But earning one app for an entire event being fair? For 30 days of grinding?
Are you even hearing yourself? What other event has a difficulty curve that high?

For 30 days of grinding in most other event months, I can pull 10+ applicators and feel rewarded.

Yeah, this event is rewarding in the same way as working a minimum wage job and barely making rent feels rewarding LMFAO



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Edited on 13/06/23 @ 13:20:48 by [♰] Yharnam (#112370)

Romana (#14743)

Witcher
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Posted on
2023-06-13 13:20:51
I never buy everything in an event shop. Even with as much grinding and time I spend a day on the game, that's just not feasible to say... buy 5 of every base at the end of the month. In May, despite battling like crazy, I never got enough tail hairs and teeth to make most of the craftable bases. But I didn't feel ripped off because my time and effort allowed me to craft at least one of them and buy 2. From December through May of consistent play, I felt satisfied that the time I put into this game gave me enough of the reward items... not "everything" but enough to feel like things were fairly balanced, and that I hadn't wasted my time.

The base prices in comparison to the decor and the canopic jellyfish are WAY overpriced for the amount of time and effort it takes to get KB, especially in comparison to the February and March and December shops that also offered a lot of combo base apps.

A player shouldn't need to grind 6 to 10 hours a day to complete a freaking daily quest. Especially when the only other reliable source of KB are annoying OP serpents.

Since devs actually tweaked a lot of the more annoying aspects of the May event half-way through the month, I'm still mostly optimistic that we can get a fair fix to the June issues on Friday. Because so far what I've what I've seen of their last update (crappy quests and like 2 decor), their updates this year were disappointing.



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Tharkenta (#160101)


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Posted on
2023-06-13 13:23:23
Then the players should maybe only decide to buy 1 or 2 apps? I'm pretty sure keeping the prices as they are, will not devalue them, but lowering the prices will, because the market will be oversaturated with these apps.
And if you feel this event is frustrating you, just turn it off.



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Thalia Jr (#364412)

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Posted on
2023-06-13 13:25:33
If their goal is to keep adding the reward apps to the shops every year…then at that point when we get to a buttload of expensive apps in these buttload of shops, then maybe some thinking needs to be done on different ways to attain the apps, different quests like in December to get the festive app 🤷🏼‍♀️



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Romana (#14743)

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Posted on
2023-06-13 13:30:10
Combo breeding burns through apps pretty quickly (because combo breeding is a bitch)... so, no, I don't think lowering the apps to a more balanced right would upset the market all that much. Or adding less hair-pulling measures to get more KB by the end of the month.

From what I've seen over the last 6 months, Lioden... actually tries to fix problems that the userbase brings up to them? Shocking in 2023, I know, but when players asked for more BO, we got a new BO combo base and new skins. Players wanted more transparency in how the next version of the site is going? We got that. And finally got Xylax to make line-art for the next king pose that's been years in the making. Players rightfully point out what we can exchange all those useless tokens in May for real currency? We got that too.

And, since I was satisfied with 6 months of events before this one turned out to be a major letdown, why shouldn't I add my support onto threads that encourage our devs to do better?



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