comments on this post will no longer be read by the poster. Do not make any attempt to reach out to me- you will be blocked. Feel free to still leave comments as you, the reader, wish. To the people in the comments who left constructive criticism and/ or good alternative suggestions without attempting to argue with me directly, telling me that I'm just lazy and
to suck it up, making judgements of my character or financial status, or being off topic- thank you for doing so.

The site also does that as default for everything else then sells "premium" time savers as a solution to problems that exist because no ones thought about fixing the spaghetti code and the reason my hands are crunchy and numb is hypermobility, carpal tunnel and nervous system issues and it adds an extra 5 seconds if not more to every interaction its so annoying- and the worse your internet the more time it eats

Quite frankly the site needs a lot more accessibility features to be implemented after this, this would just level the playing field for quite a lot of people regardless of disability status or personal life factors

Also I promise I'm mostly leaving comments alone lol, good bad or ugly

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My issue with this suggestion is the fact that you are asking the owners of a game to change something to free for players that have never seem to have had an issue with this in the past.

In my nearly 10 years of being on the sight (joined in 2015) I have never seen anyone come out stating they are having issues.

I know that they have talked about a lot of UI updates as well as how lion pages are handled last year (March 2023) and I know that it has taken them a while to do some things. But a game like this requires lots of coding/images.

I am sorry but this is a no support from me. After my last comment when I asked about what happens to the players who bought more than 1 month (30 Rollovers) of FAPA and was told "This suggestion is about adding more accessibility to lioden, I have paid for FAPA for months if not years myself and I Do Not Care if I get refunded if this was implemented, other aspects of FAPA not mentioned in the post are intentionally left out to focus on why the suggestion has been made." It just makes me feel like you don't honestly care if others would want a refund or not.

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I didnt say I dont care about the players who would but you can have whatever perception of me you want Shadow.

I'm trying to let yall talk without my interference or presence but yall keep calling for me to answer yall directly or class checking me or assuming Im ignorant of how to play and being off topic in doing so for the last two. Whats especially funny about the class checking is that the players doing so haven't read my username clearly.

I'm not trying to get into fights with anyone commenting and I shouldn't have to bust out HTML to promote usage of literacy and reading comprehension skills past the ability to argue.

I want things to improve for the wider playerbase, especially the disabled playerbase that I am a member of, and I'm taking a step in doing so. Can yall please stop trying to fight with me in the comments if you no support and just state your reason why and leave it.

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No support as someone who also has a disability that causes issues using my hands (even if you think your own disability is the only relevant one in the conversation and have stated that you do not care to hear about other people's disabilities, I think that the thoughts and perspectives of other disabled players like myself should also be taken into account as this topic and change does not only impact you).

Other people in the replies have offered alternative solutions that I also agree with, but at the end of the day this is a game that revolves around using your hands to click or tap in almost every aspect. This is pretty much the core of the entire game, and one of the things players need to decide whether is worth the effort or not when deciding to have a large pride. If taking time to manually feed lions is too much or too painful, scaling down your pride is something to take into consideration. You cannot join a clicking and tapping game and expect there to not be clicking and tapping in most elements of the game, and you shouldn't expect large prides and more RNG rolls to come with no downsides.

I don't think the idea of a clans or groups intended on helping out with providing FAPA would at all lead to doxxing or harassment when there are so many lioden welfare clans already that operate just fine for other portions of the game. This isn't like officially applying for disability where one needs to prove themselves and there are legal safeguards in place and consequences, this is just asking for a group intended to help others pay for some in game help. I think that if such a group was made, there should be some safeguards in place for avoiding discrimination, such as not having to list or inform of your disability. It will still list that you participate in the clan, but an outsider cannot tell whether that is to help support others or to receive the support, nor do the majority of players likely care or would bother even trying to check what clans someone may be in unless they are confirming a stud discount. Even if this might cause people who are not disabled to also take part in the kindness, I think that this solution is not nearly as dangerous as your post makes it sound. There are far more controversial clans that do not have harassment and doxxing issues despite being disliked by a vocal part of the playerbase, such as the collector.

I also don't think it is reasonable to expect premium convenience feature to be made free because they would make things easier for you, that is the entire point of them being a convenience feature. I think that if this game is causing pain and stress and making a disability worse for someone to the point they are no longer finding it fun or bearable, it is time for them to dial back their time on this game or find a game that will be easier on their disability unfortunately. Your health and well-being are your responsibility first in cases of free to play optional games such as lioden.

Like other people have also mentioned, feed all play all works as both free amusement and a free universal broodmother, not just feeding and playing all. The amount of skulls and bones and amusement I can save to sell just by having FAPA almost pays for FAPA itself. Making this free for everyone would essentially render broodmothers and amusement items useless. Even if the free FAPA idea would lose the free amusement and broodmother bonus, it would just render FAPA as a whole useless as nobody will want to pay 5gb for easy to get amusement items and a broodmother. This in turn would also make having a large pride have a large portion of the challenge removed, which even though in your post you state this as a good thing, I disagree. Larger prides should stay risk/effort (either doing the work for pay for FAPA / feeding and playing every two days manually or risk lions running away) vs reward (having an advantage in breeding things like special bases and mutations out of sheer numbers and RNG rolls) At that point you will also need to either buy amusement from other players, or do the repeated clicking through explore anyways to find the amusement items needed.

The time argument is also really confusing to me. If someone doesn't have the time to play the game properly, they can just choose not to rollover on days or during periods where they do not have the time. Lioden is very gracious with the rollover system and not having to check or play every day to keep your pride safe and happy. There is no real pressure or consequences to not rolling over for even weeks or months aside from just losing the little daily rollover bonus and maybe missing out on an event or update, which would happen anyways if someone didn't have the time or energy to dedicate. This is no different from any other game, online or offline. If you do not have the time or energy to play the game as intended, the option to not play is always there, and is judgement free. I don't think not having time to play the game should justify paid convince features to be made free when this game is not at all something people need.

I also think saying that FAPA is 60$ a year is a bit disingenuous. It might be in a literal sense if someone were going to buy all of the currency with USD every time, but I would venture a guess that the vast majority of the player base don't and wouldn't need to. 5 GB a month is extremely easy to get, it's selling 500 uses of food, two or three basic muties, some fodder cubs or lioness bundles, a few smaller items from the monthly event, a small sketch or a little bit of coding help for someone, or entirely passive income through selling studs. Lioden and GB itself are extremely free to play friendly, and even playing extremely casually most people should have no problems making 5 gb a month. If someone is paying for GB for FAPA to circumvent actually needing to play the game, then they already don't have an issue paying for convenience.

I think that a much better solution and easier solution to implement for the staff that is not dedicated groups would simply be to make it a bit easier to feed from stacks the way that it was made easier to nest lionesses. Give the option to feed multiple lionesses from one carcass, or multiple carcasses to one lioness if that former option is too close to FAPA to reduce the amount of clicking needed. Alternatively, provide cheaper 1 gb options for feed all and play all seperately that do not include the free amusement/feeding king, that way if someone really needs it but cannot afford 5 GB, they can simply pay 100 food uses per bonus, which is easy and free to get via explore and hunting, and still reap the basic convenience benefits that will save them time and energy clicking/tapping.

I hope you do not take any offence to anything that I have written here, I wanted to be very clear that I did read your post and comments clearly, but still have my own reasons for no supporting, as well as alternative solutions to being FAPA a free feature. Thank you for reading, and I hope that your pain is more bearable in the future as I know firsthand how difficult and frustrating it is for your hands to not work the way that they should.

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"I think that a much better solution and easier solution to implement for the staff that is not dedicated groups would simply be to make it a bit easier to feed from stacks the way that it was made easier to nest lionesses."

i like this suggestion a lot.

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Thanks Torapuff, you've explained the idea I had in a much better and more concise way

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Ohh I love the suggestion with the stacks, Torapuff and I honestly think you worded your points better than I could have regarding previous points.

Addressing the ones from Caprini in the main thread, I wanna suggest a couple of alternative ideas.

1) In terms of the issue with the cost, maybe instead of having to buy it for both accounts, it could be bought on one account and be applied across that one and the linked account instead of needing to buy it individually for both.

2) In terms of the issue with having to tap multiple times, maybe there could be an additional option that operates similarly to auto-nesting in the sense that, without taking carcasses from your own hoard, it either automatically feeds/entertains lions or allows you to tap the button once to do so. That would ofc be more pricey like auto-nesting is, but it would likely be worth it for those who can't come up with enough food per day imo.


Not anything solid, just thought I'd throw out ideas I was thinking about a little bit after I commented earlier.

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I dont have much to comment on your reply Torapuff other than I did not say my disability is the only relevant one in the conversation. Ive added the provision that I don't want to hear about other peoples personal lives after 2 seperate people came in with personal life stories that werent relevant to the conversation. Sorry about any confusion 😅

A reply like yours is actually exactly what I wanted from no support comments, thank you :)

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I wanna support but I kinda can't?
Getting 5GB is hard at times but its simple if you play your cards right (especially when you set a internal/external schedule as a neuro/disabled person).
Mayhaps we could also pay with SB (and/)or GB for some situations.
I feel like this is a great idea but I'm unsure about it.

^^ to user
Also- auto feed would be really fun and useful.

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My main issue is that having a pride size over the count of 20 is only possible now for several different groups of people with many types of disabilities and/ or life circumstances if it is paid for when 1, accessibility on a website should not he a paid feature and 2, many other niche pet games of this nature have it as the default, free, and have no need for broodmothers. It takes zero tangible resources, as well.

This would be the easiest fix, the price since its fixed should just be in quotes in a "if this then that" single line of code. It should take maybe 10 minutes. Other suggestions, regardless of viability, if they involve coding would be a whole project.

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No support.

I'm a disabled individual with neurological issues and chronic pain, an incredibly busy life, limited time to play Lioden and a large clan owner on top of it. Arguably, my income and time are incredibly split. I only roll when I know I can play and earn, even if only a couple hours a day, or to hit the "hunt" button repeatedly.

I have close to 100 lions I care for. I am *not* sitting on hundreds of GB. Lioden's economy has collapsed and gutted my savings and income. I still choose no support.

If you cannot support your pride, have a smaller pride.

Things I *am* in favor of fixing for the convenience of disabled users and those on mobile:
- Remove the 5 SB fee on "choose for me" for hunting and patrolling.
- True dark mode that darkens the central UI.
- Fixing mobile with proper mobile formatting (larger buttons; bigger, proper mobile interface; etc.)

We have successfully petitioned for a user-end censors on potentially triggering content. We've gotten "disable animation" buttons included on events for users with photosensitivity. We even managed to get the HP bars fixed to aid colour blind users in combat. There's a clear desire by the community to push for these inclusive changes.

However, another major additional reason that I've chosen to "No Support" this suggestion is because I feel the attitude presented here is detrimental to Lioden's disabled community.

Your disability is not the only one relevant to this conversation because this petition is being made on the premise of "accessibility features for Lioden", not "accessibility features for Caprini".

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I have stated previously on this very comment page that the "do not tell me about your personal life" has been added to the post is after 2 people one with a mystery disability and one with a medical condition completely unrelated came in and basically told me to suck it up within the first two pages, the second coming in repeatedly to do nothing but argue. That point, the one where I supposedly only care about myself, is irrelevant and hurtful. Please stop bringing it up.

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I read the statement. I chose to respond anyways because I am in the category you are proposing accessibility tools for and understanding the extents of the affecteds' conditions helps us better accommodate and find areas where we mutually need the most aid.

Users are responsible for maintaining only what they can upkeep. If you can't, I recommend downsizing. Otherwise, I recommend keeping a couple breeding items buried for emergency funds if you need to sell them to renew FAPA. It's what I do. I recommend Buff Balls, GOP or Yohimbe Barks from February because they're low cost and easy to farm in large numbers in a limited amount of play time.

Good luck.

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Directed at no one in particular- I, the poster, am by no means poor on LD and can afford FAPA. Personal affordability is not why I made this suggestion and everyone who has used whether or not I personally can afford it as a no support reason looks like they're being willfully denser than a prize winning poundcake. I can buy yalls entire accounts with the money I've spent on projects successful or not alone and I wouldnt find the prospect worth doing. Please keep saving tips and financial advice out of this thread and keep them on relevant ones.

Another note, being poor on LD isn't something to be ashamed of either and doesn't mean poor players deserve less. This is a browser game about pixel lions, be less serious.

Thank you!

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The game needs services available that encourage regular purchasing of GB to provide a source of income for the business.

FAPA being affordable for almost anyone who is able to engage with the game means that it's likely not a true "reason" anyone would buy GB
And therefore is answering the 'if we have less services available for GB we will make less money as a business' concern that could be brought up to counter the 'Make it free!' request.

I have known players who do purchase GB monthly specifically to inform their playstyle and happen to spend on Auto-Nesting and FAPA, who have expressed that some months when they have nothing to buy (they don't like the new bases, they had enough play time to make more than enough to cover all expenses and then some, etc) they would spend that game money elsewhere if not for wanting to maintain their game flow where all earned resources are kept and their 'needs' for their large pride are accounted for by their spending of real world money.
That is their personal choice, I am greatful for everyone who supports the game and they should never be ridiculed for their choice to do so regardless of their ability to do so.
(Although irrelevant they are also of a long-term player status and in game wealth where they could honestly spend nothing on the game ever again and their game wallet would never take a 'noticeable" hit even with decades of FAPA purchased in advance, so please don't speculate elsewhere as to why as it is an elective purchase for them and not mandatory or truly needed at all.)

That is also a big reason the game devs might listen to their paying client base if those views were expressed waaaaaay back in development rather than from their modern 'there is literally no reason to ever spend money on this or any game' vocal section of the player base.
Games need to adapt to survive- what if their surveys still say those regular GB purchases are for Oasis services ?
Would the short-term gain from happy windfall purchases (if any!) during a time of demonstrated responsiveness and inclusivity make up for a loss of whatever the new reg purchases might be- whether minus the $2.50 (5 GB FAPA) & $7.50 (15 GB Auto-nesting) to supplement the 20 or so they gave themselves to play with or not happening at all?

Please understand that while I know "it's only 5 GB" doesn't help at all to the frustrating nature of what feels like a pointless game stance, the cost doesn't matter to many players or others for whom the cost is not a true obstacle, and would definitely not be make or break for a true business even if extrapolated across the entire player base and then the extended to the desperate need for any GB sinks post Black Friday etc.
it really is hurting the stance of the thread to throw out valid opinions or dismiss any references to price within an argument because it's 'so low' just because the player did not extend their argument in a way that resonates with (whomever is dismissing price references)
I'm not trying to convince one player or one vote, i'm trying to help find a way to get this thread's target audience (Game Decision Makers) to listen.
A way of assuring the bottom line won't be effected when something like a regular paid service feels discriminatory because it blocks a certain playstyle (Large prides, mass breeding.) that causes a strain on the servers to keep running.

One of the only reasons I haven't expanded my pride beyond the 500+ territory of my main an side combined is that this is the amount of lionesses I can comfortably maintain, hunt and feed, without relying on extra food or time I don't have to devote to this game.
Making FAPA free is one step closer to removing all barriers of maintenance which might be preventing more players from paying that extra 10GB (one time purchase) for 1 more territory slot.

Without a way to ensure more purchases from its paying customer base, I can't see potential goodwill outweighing no replacement for a nonrenewable monthly fee paid service.




We're asking for free FAPA in a time when every company has some sort of Subscription service.


How can we make the game, Lioden the business listen- not just seem to be arguing amongst ourselves in emotional circles over a hot topic?

I agree that it is an accessibility tool being sold as a convenience, but do we have an idea for a fun convenience paid feature to replace it when having a large pride only feels like a necessity to overcome low odds and provide enough variety to be interested and keep playing- and is in itself, a convenience ?

Large prides take more space and strain the servers- if we're all free to play players and a one time pledge from a purchasing game supporter isn't going to pay for X months of the service being a tiny little GB sink or reason for continued purchases,
My view is the players who are bringing up 'the same issues or points that are off topic and get reported' are trying to talk through reasons it might not have happened already.

If the game feels it's a requirement to have some paid services offered, we'd need to address that concern with more than a valid true single point to get all decision makers to listen.

While the intrinsic value of the point being made here in this thread's first point may be beyond question, quieting the voices saying "it's not that much" and further clouding any points being made with back and forth forced mod intervention won't really help make it happen.

FAPA should have been free all along
Maybe it wasn't to provide a regular thing to purchase for those that do (whether they no longer need to, after some time, or not), a tiny little GB sink, and most importantly above others a (tiny) barrier to large prides ?

"If it's not a barrier, why remove it? " it's discriminatory, makes players feel bad, all points that the thread addresses
"If it is a barrier, what else can be done?" Alternative paid features that require monthly renewal

Something to buy, as other than new features and new releases players who want to spend money to support the game are lacking incentive otherwise.

One month of standard gameplay even if it takes multiple years for a player to complete can get you decades of fapa.
It's... not that much as others point out, but maybe they mean what else is there to sink GB or repeat purchases into. You (general) might prefer 2 Instant Cub Delivery & a Pose to 1 month of FAPA, but is anyone still actually buying GB at all not just for their regular monthly game expenses?

I'd love to hear from the non-F2P players, if they haven't spoken up already, though I think it's likely a It would be nice

I mean to add to the opinions shared, but just to tl;dr my post:
It would be vital for the company to hear that reducing their subscription type available purchases will not effect their bottom line. <3

The game is playable in a variety of ways even with these obstacles that force disabled players to alter their gameplay in less than satisfactory ways,
Or provide a useless meaningless pointless easy to overcome annoying non- barrier that 'shouldn't exist',
So if player happiness and freedom to choose is to be ranked above server space and cost of maintaining the site (such as it is) we need idk pledges and comments addressing those concerns not another comment that gets sent out as an alert to anyone subscribed still without addressing possible reasons to dismiss the ask.
It's not free, maybe 'why not' = "There is no excuse!" Is less effective.

I feel that the comments suggesting downsizing and ways to afford FAPA were well-meaning and also advice directed at no one in particular necessarily only those for whom it may be relevant- so although assumptions can be hurtful they simply mean something akin to play as you can/it's not a barrier, not a personal attack flex or comment.
Intrinsic value of the matter at hand is a worthy cause, but it is a game with seemingly endless gameplay styles within an accepted norm where it is entirely possible to maintain a pride or king without FAPA.so I hope those saying if it's not for you don't play can be better understood from this regard...

I usually spoiler things that I feel are elaborations of my point, or not essential to my post, but given that an extra click or 100's is literally what is being discussed here i'll avoid doing that for this post since it would require a click to un-spoiler.

Good luck! <3

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