comments on this post will no longer be read by the poster. Do not make any attempt to reach out to me- you will be blocked. Feel free to still leave comments as you, the reader, wish. To the people in the comments who left constructive criticism and/ or good alternative suggestions without attempting to argue with me directly, telling me that I'm just lazy and
to suck it up, making judgements of my character or financial status, or being off topic- thank you for doing so.

I'll have to agree with jewel now...

The only thing anyone could possibly have to say to this is "Aight".

Aight.

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I feel like saying you don’t want other peoples anecdotes of their disabilities/conditions and then saying “I’m autistic so my behavior is excused” is hypocritical. Not 100% sure if that’s the right word but as someone who severely struggles to read tone (just ask Eli lol), that isn’t an excuse to be dismissive of people who your suggestion was made for.

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I can very much relate to struggling to word things as I've had to re-word my own suggestions multiple times (flat tone/harsh tone, and neurological fuckery affect my communication). I come across exceptionally blunt and often harsher in text than in voice if I'm not purposefully working to pepper what I write with emoticons, and I'm very bad at reading tone and intent, so I do get it. I think this suggestion has a good intention at its core behind it, but I'd say we should probably hold off for now until things cool off.

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@[♰] Yharnam (#112370)
That would be appreciated because I woke up to these and I have to work today and the last thing I wanted was to read more "oh you said this thing you never said" and "you're doing this thing you've repeatedly said you arent trying to do and clarified"
Its not fun
Thank you again

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If something is affecting that mental health that much, you may just want to not check this forum. I say this as one autistic person to another.

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@apricot (they/them) You're right I shouldnt
I forgot I said I wouldnt check comments, saw a notif and impulse clicked 2 days ago
Now we're here
I would just like it if personal opinions of me or my finances and financial advice was left off thread bc its not relevant to the thread and Ive tried to clear the air on several misunderstandings multiple times over and it doesnt matter. I just get villified over and over and get told that if I react in literally any way to that that I'm quote "shutting other people/ other disabled people down" end quote when anyone paying attention to what I'm actually reacting to would notice that I'm reacting to personal opinions of me as a person largely, followed by unsolicited financial advice as number two as to what I'm reacting to the most.

Valid criticisms, constructive criticisms, valid concerns and viable alternatives I've largely left alone because I wanted peoples thoughts and opinions on this specific topic. Agree or disagree. I personally really like the idea of stripping a free version of FAPA down to just feeding and playing all and keeping the og as a premium, though personally as a whale I would prefer different services to make up the difference to the revenue of the site- I can think of a few things I would like to pay a premium for if they existed. Maybe after the recode.

I'm just tired of having my notifs be a minefield when I've all but begged on my knees to keep the thread on topic and not have people personally come after me for something I did not even say

Not trying to bite your head off with the long message btw

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i was simplifying your “god forbid i be autistic on the internet” comment in which you justify your rude behavior towards people in this thread using your autism to excuse it.

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This comment is being made for the purpose of the guidance of better wording and understanding one another. It is not made to target any particular person.

I have not personally been able to read the thread due to the large words, which is just a personal issue of mine as I cannot concentrate on large words; so I will try my best to explain this from what I understand and where I believe others are coming from and suggest how to better word and arrange it.

Source one: page 1
"If "you can make 5gb per month" is your reasoning, consider the fact that we're lucky companies don't make us pay for air :)" As other users have stated, 5GB is a relatively easy sum to acquire, but in my opinion it is only if the user is well-acquainted with the game and it's mechanics, and the market itself. The market is in total disarray and it can make it harder for newer users to gain 5GB, however as suggested later in the thread there are easy work-arounds to this. These work arounds will only need to be available from the point where the user begins to struggle with the non-stop clicking that lioden requires and I sympathise with despite not having any known medical/disabilities relating to my hands; just pain from typing and constant clicking.
The issue with this statement makes it seem like the user is invalidating the opinion of others believing 5GB is easily acquired; and it honestly is, even if you're super new. If you're super new and are considering FAPA early on for only 20 lions, I am not sure how to respond to it, but I would suggest participating in the monthly events in order to get this 5GB, or to lower your pride count until you can secure FAPA.
FAPA is a convenience mechanic and is not at all necessary to get; and other users have suggested alternatives to what OP has suggested in their main post.

"I think at least reducing price would be fair. I'm not sure how much FAPA actually affects the site's bottom line, frankly, so I'm not sure it would really hurt the income. I've certainly never purchased GB to afford it, because 5GB is not too tough to scrounge up every month for me and I imagine, for quite a lot of other people who are decently active. I generally just sell stuff from explore or shuffle." - reducing the price is one alternative, but is not the desired alternative and I very much doubt the game devs would consider it. They would likely install a free version of FAPA that takes items from your hoard and will notify you when you can no longer feed/play with your lions due to lack of items.
This user also suggested this idea at the bottom of their post:
"I think personally I would be happy just to see any kind of adjustment that takes this into account. For example, make regular FAPA free, and a new version of FAPA with stat gains and carcass item drops the paid version. I'd keep paying if that was implemented!"> - I agree with the idea of a FAPA that allows stat items to give your lions stats, most users with stat items still wouldn't use this option of FAPA for this, due to typically they do not want to use those items on just any lion in their den. Using this form of FAPA would mean using a stat item on every lion in your den, meaning less for your heirs or huntresses. This still doesn't change the fact that most users will feed/play with heir or huntresses before using FAPA/burying their stat items to ensure it is only used on the correct lion. So I personally don't support it as an option.

Another suggestion by another user:
"However, I do think there are other options for disabled players to obtain FAPA (or, more accurately, the 5GB to buy it). Initial thoughts include:
- clans dedicated to raising money to donate to disabled players.
- donation pools organized by one person
- an option that is cheaper similar to the nesting materials QoL change that happened a few months ago. Certainly not the same timesaver as FAPA, but certainly *is* easier." - I agree with most of these points, specifically the last one. And option at the top of your den/cave pages with a select list with the option 'select all' and 'feed and play with' would be useful and would 100% cost back on the time it takes to feed/play with your lions and it's easily accessible. Sure it means going to each individual den, but I'd much prefer doing 5 clicks onto a page and then an additional 10 clicks [so select all and the option you desire] than the possible thrice as many clicks just to feed your lion, double that if you have to play with them sometimes as well.

However, onto the main point of this comment:
"Edit: The suggestion for lioden welfare also assumes all or most disabled players know eachother or are friendly.
Thats not the case. We are people, not a hive mind." the suggestion did not at all suggest/allude to this idea, they suggested a charity fund for those who need FAPA, not exclusive to the disabled community within Lioden. This remark was made unnecessarily and wasn't even directed at the user, but instead in a third-party form to not directly address, but make certain they were aware it was about them. Users with disabilities are not a hive mind, you are correct but that is not at all what the user said, suggest towards, or even mean. They supported the idea of there being a change to FAPA, but not the change you wanted; they gave alternatives, not insults.

"My intention wasn't to talk down to you. I was talking on my own post. About what you said, sure but still talking on my own post.
If you want to talk to me directly you can." You were targeting the user without directly replying to them, and they asked for you to reply to them directly rather than degrade and talk down to them. I sympathise that it wasn't your intention, but as stated by the user it is how it came across and it deters users from speaking their minds if they're going to be accused of thinking all disabled people are a 'hive mind' just for disagreeing with an unrealistic change to FAPA. The polite thing to do is to direct your speech at the person in a polite format, such as:
"I do not believe a charity fund towards supporting disabled people is the answer to our problem. There is no way to prove who is or isn't disabled, and a singular person dealing with this may lead to issues, even if they are a staff member. I strongly believe that [this] or [this] change to FAPA would provide better results than having people rely on others to pay for something that it available over on Wolvden for free

"My point of that was you know what you're getting into. Most online games would be difficult for those with hand issues because that's what you use for it. My other point is that FAPA is convenience only. My last point is it automatically acts as a broodmother and Hornbill Majordomo which costs currency in monkey business. The staff could've easily just not coded FAPA at all. It might not take any food or amusement resources from your hoard but it does replace a already coded item." While this comment makes sense and I understand it, the issue is that disabled users who struggle with clicking for long periods of time would like to have a function to mass feed/play with lions. This user is going by what is on the thread, which asks for free FAPA. FAPA is a convenience feature, sure, but a select list to just mass feed/play isn't exactly FAPA, it's a free convenience feature. A free version of FAPA would not have the same features as FAPA, such as not taking items out of your hoard; realistically it would protect cubs, as it's using YOUR amusement items which would protect them.

"premium services are premium for a reason. don't have the time, energy, or ability to feed a large amount of lions manually? buy FAPA or have a smaller pride. it is really not that difficult to obtain 5gb a month.
lioden may be a free to play game, but it is also a play to win game. if you are active enough that you have hundreds of lions to interact with, you can surely make 5gb a month. if not, i feel like that is a bit of a personal issue." This point is valid in the sense that if you can afford 100 slots, which is about 2gb per slot from 40-100 I believe, you should be able to access FAPA with ease. This was a valid point, however the last comment wasn't necessary in my opinon.
many users with 100s of slots may actually buy the slots over time, as in save up and buy it every few months/weeks or get it out of spare funds. However, this means they are realistically able to save up and know how to get the market; but it still doesn't mean they're able to make 5GB a month. An alternative to knowing the market is just plain exploring; mass fighting and you can get 1-2ksb per day, if not more. However, fighting is a HEAVY clicking mechanic and may be an issue for disabled users who struggle with their hands, im not sure; im not disabled so feel free to correct me.
Does that mean fighting has to be changed? I'll go ahead and say no, it just means it's not a reliable option for that user. Instead they can: sell food, sell event currency [even if they gain it at a slower rate], sell lions, do art commissions, and many other things.
users who can afford 100 lion slots should consider beforehand whether or not they are able to manually feed, or if it is worth it if they do not have a steady income to afford FAPA - that is on them, and it IS a personal choice and issue for them to decide upon. if you cannot afford FAPA steadily every month, but want to buy 100 lion slots; DON'T. Get a steady income FIRST and then get the slots and have money saved up for FAPA to purchase a few months in advance to give you more time to save up.

"I mean personally I don't think you should have to plan your life around a browser game stronger support now that i think about that- are people really planning their lives around lioden thats kind of funny" If users plan their lives around a game, that is up to them, but making fun of them for it is not okay. Planning their game time around their life is different to planning their life around a game. Every user is encouraged to take a break from games if their mental health, or disability is effecting them. A key word I'm using is BREAKS. Users do have to plan their game life around their real life, or even plan their life around their game; such as giving dedicated time to playing the game; that is okay. If your disability, or medical condition, is affecting you, it is advised you take a break from the game; however an accessibility feature such as this shouldn't force someone to take a break - it should already be implemented and should have been with the QoL feature with nesting material.

"2. I don't believe it is fair for this to be changed to Free. Think about all the players who might have purchased several months of FAPA. If it becomes free, will those players get refunded or will they be at a loss for that GB." - users would get refunded, Lioden would not implement a feature that people can pre-pay months for without considering they'd have to refund everyone; they would refund.

"This suggestion is about adding more accessibility to lioden, I have paid for FAPA for months if not years myself and I Do Not Care if I get refunded if this was implemented, other aspects of FAPA not mentioned in the post are intentionally left out to focus on why the suggestion has been made." Other users care if they're having their GB, which many have paid with real life money, stolen from them; it is a genuine and relevant concern. FAPA is a mechanic, and all aspects of it are relevant as they are features you are weighing is the benefits and disadvantages of removing when you are considering making it a free mechanic. Users are stating what FAPA does, how it works and the advantages of it; as well as the disadvantages of removing it as a convenience. Those are valid and relevant points; it is explanation behind why they don't support, and saying the suggestion does not focus on a feature that is apart of FAPA isn't reasonable.

I honestly can't be assed typing much else as my wrist and my hands hurt majorly, but i will continue this as I see more things; of course there are issues between both parties and there have been things said that are wrong but just be polite about it instead of throwing around accusations of someone calling you 'lazy' when they aren't, they are trying to explain that 5GB is not hard to get, and making FAPA a free feature is not a benefit to those who use it.
You have brought up disabilities in the thread, and have then continuously stated that their 'personal issues' are not relevant despite it being the group of disabilities/medical conditions you are aiming this post at; that is why people are stating you are making it all about yourself, so I heavily and politely suggest you reword your thread. Think about how it comes across to them, or wait to calm down before you reply.
Autism also is not at all relevant to this entire post, and bringing it up came across as a way to 'weasel you way out of' being in trouble for being rather uptight with your comments - when a very large chunk of lioden has autism, or other neurodivergent conditions and they have much more polite approaches and have adapted and changed their tone when someone points out they have been rude.

I mean this all in a lighthearted way, although I do struggle with tones; so let me know if i've said anything hurtful and I will immediately reword it!

Otherwise, I do not currently support this suggestion in particular, but I would if OP's suggestion was changed to one of the following:
- A free version of FAPA that allows you to click on a button and using items from your hoard, your lions are fed/played with
- A select list at the bottom of den pages to mass feed/play with lions.

Thank you.

edit: i really lost the point I was making by the end of that! I apologise deeply if this comes across as being targeted towards you OP.

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Oh wow-
As a disabled person myself, oh wow, free reading!
No seriously, a lot of you guys have great points. It's fun to read!

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I like this--I think it is a good addition that bridges the communication gap that seems to be happening.

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keep in mind i only got to the third page but I will eventually add to this if i see the need to, but for now I've said what i believe is relevant.

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It is kind of ironic to me that this idea preaches about "accessibility" and "making things easier for disabled people!" when a few members on this thread aren't already utilising free accessibility tools—such as Grammar.ly—to help police their tone and then throwing a fit when their message is misconstrued or when they get a tone back. I feel you can't preach about [gatekept, admittedly] accessibility on one side, whilst throwing a fit and blaming disability/tones on the other - and not using free tools to help mediate it. This thread would likely have gone a lot smoother if people had.

But it goes to show, that even if this suggestion was implemented - people likely wouldn't use it, because people don't use the already existing accessibility tools that can be found with a simple Google. There is also nothing in the game's current ToS or CoC meaning players can't use things like Ghostmouse to create a macro to feed/click on their behalf, as long as all pages are loaded fully before you continue and as long as it isn't fully coded. Ghostmouse also records your actions in real-time, so would get things done at a realistic pace versus a script etc that IS against game rules and can execute commands instantly.

[And for those curious, Grammarly says my tone for this post is: formal. it works on PC, Mobile, Tablet etc.]

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I don't usually need Grammely, I'm pretty good at correcting my own mistakes.
Unless I forget.
How much did they pay you for this ad?! (Sarcastic)

Yeah, my just auto corrected to NY. I hate it. I hate it all.

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As moon said and frae knows, i also correct myself a lot when I am writing, which is why I also still note i struggle with tones purely in-case i have been rude; but that isn't super relevant to the topic at this moment in time.

What other alternatives to what I have mentioned in my post have y'all got?

I will also note that if the OP does not change their thread, I will make my own focused on the 'select multiple' mass feed/playing feature, as it is a separate and different idea.

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Whilst you may not, Moom, need such a tool - plenty of us with disabilities and issues conveying tone do. It's not an advert, just genuine advice - if it can stop me appearing like an asshole to people on the internet for free, I'll take it. There were some comments on this thread (I've been following it since it was posted) removed by moderators (as per their post on page 3) that were valid criticisms of the idea, but because of the tone, they were taken as personal attacks and removed.

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